Thread Drift

[Catrin]

Thanks Owlie and Oak, it is appreciated. A part of me (the depressed part) says that things can't/won't change but you know, that is just silly. I am doing what I need to do for those things I can change and just dealing with the rest. Am very thankful for my bikes!

Red - that sounds terrible! I hope that it wasn't as bad as the wreckage indicates :eek:

[Crankin]

Catrin, I hope you find some peace.

Red, I feel badly just reading about what you witnessed.

[Blueberry]

Sigh. If there's going to be an article about cycling in the news, why does it have to be The Most Fashionable Bikes on the Market (http://thelook.today.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/20/12225212-the-most-fashionable-bikes-on-the-market?lite). So - your choices are Huffy or Gucci. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I guess I should be glad to see cycling mentioned in any positive way, but really?

[redrhodie]

http://newport.patch.com/articles/bicyclist-hit-by-car-suffered-serious-head-trauma

This is about the crash yesterday. I suspect I see this poor man all the time. He's in critical condition. The driver doesn't know what happened. It makes me sick, because this is a dead straight section of road without any merging traffic. The only way she would not have seen him is if she wasn't paying attention. I hope charges will be filed.

[Catrin]

Very sad Red...

My mom's cancer problems continue... Her lung cancer has returned, and with the emphysema and her getting a MRSA infection from the original lung surgery in November means that she isn't a candidate for further surgery. They weren't able to take as much of her lung as they wanted originally due to her lungs already being compromised which is likely why the cancer has returned.

The PET scan has left no doubt that it is cancer, and that it has not spread outside of her lung. A biopsy is the next step and they did that last week...but they didn't get what they wanted to. There apparently isn't any doubt about the cancer, but they can't proceed with the radiation until they have a "good" biopsy due to insurance requirements. She had enough problems recovering from the biopsy last week and, in fact, is still recovering.

I don't understand why she must be subjected to yet another biopsy since there is no doubt the cancer has returned...but apparently PET scans aren't definitive enough for insurance companies. I am no expert, and perhaps my understanding is faulty, and watching her go through this frustration is hard. Poor mom...

[Blueberry]

((((Catrin)))))

((((Red)))))

If the comments are accurate, it sounds like the rider passed away from his injuries. It makes me sick too. I wonder if charges will be brought - I hope so. However, all too often, they aren't:(

[redrhodie]

If the comments are accurate, it sounds like the rider passed away from his injuries. It makes me sick too. I wonder if charges will be brought - I hope so. However, all too often, they aren't:(

Since I haven't been able to find any news other than that story, I just called one of the local news stations to see why this hasn't been covered, and was told they're working on it. I feel like I should also contact the State Attorney General, to give support to the filing of charges.

The comments haven't yet degraded to the point which I know they will, but even at this point, they frustrate me. Knowing the road and conditions, I see no reasonable excuse for this "accident". They always use sun glare as an excuse for not pressing charges around here, and that wasn't a factor.

Edit, (((((Catrin))). I'm sorry about your mother.

[indysteel]

I'm so sorry, Catrin. I'll keep you and your mom in my thoughts and prayers.

[spokewench]

(((Catrin))) and (((Red))) - sometimes, it is very hard to understand why the world works the way it does. I'm thinking of you both.

[OakLeaf]

(((((((Catrin, mom, red, "accident" victim))))) - thinking of all of you.

[Crankin]

Thinking of you, Catrin

[Owlie]

((Red, Catrin, Catrin's mom))

[lph]

Took the metro today. Walking up the fairly steep hill to our apartment on my way home after work I heard a thin little "pling-pling" behind me, and past me comes a tiny little blonde waif of a girl, pedaling her heart out with skinny little legs on an awful heavy girls bike with no gears and way too small wheels. Big heavy pink helmet on top.

I wanted to just whisk her away to a bike shop and buy her a proper, light and rigid bike, but settled for just praising her warmly for being able to pedal so far up the hill! before stopping and pushing her bike to the top.

If she holds out a few more years, she could be a champion.

[Catrin]

My mom had a needle biopsy 2.5 weeks ago that was unsuccessful - they didn't get the cells they wanted. Friday she went back, and after a CT scan they determined the only way they COULD get it was to bore a hole through one of her ribs :eek: :( Thankfully the doctors decided there was no good reason to put her through all of that as there is no doubt the cancer has returned. They were only doing it to jump through the insurance company's hoops anyway.

Her next step is 35 radiation treatments, hopefully this will be enough to put it in remission. There are no other options, after her terrible experience in Nov/December she isn't a candidate for further surgery.

[snapdragen]

Catrin, I'm so sorry you mom is going through this, yet again. Wishing you and your mom peace and strength.

[OakLeaf]

I'm so sorry Catrin. What a tough ride she's had.

[Catrin]

Thank you, what makes this even harder for her is this is her third bout :(

[Owlie]

Oh, Catrin. ((Catrin, Catrin's mom))

[indysteel]

I'm so sorry, Catrin. I sure hope the radiation is successful.

[Crankin]

I hope your mom does well, Catrin.

[Catrin]

Thank you, Crankin, Indy, Owlie, Oakleaf and Snapdragen - I hope this turns out well for her...it certainly puts my own current stressors into perspective, that is for sure.

[Catrin]

I've been thinking so much about my mom that I didn't give the good news from my doctor. He now considers my mild type 2 diabetes to be resolved. Not controlled, but gone due to lifestyle changes :cool: :) :D :cool:

I actually didn't know this was possible, and I checked with a friend of mine who is a chemist at a major drug company who deals specifically with diabetes and he agreed that it is quite possible if it was mild to begin. Not that I didn't believe my doctor but it was such a surprise. Pity the hypoglycemia won't go away - but it doesn't come up near as often as it once did. :cool:

Now I only have to get stuck once a year...I REALLY like that idea!

[snapdragen]

That's great news Catrin!

[Dogmama]

I've been thinking so much about my mom that I didn't give the good news from my doctor. He now considers my mild type 2 diabetes to be resolved. Not controlled, but gone due to lifestyle changes :cool: :) :D :cool:



That is so fantastic!!! Congratulations!! So many people don't understand the dangers of diabetes & just let it go until it is full blown (are you listening DH? I didn't think so!!). Thankfully he is controlling it with diet & exercise so far

[Catrin]

That is so fantastic!!! Congratulations!! So many people don't understand the dangers of diabetes & just let it go until it is full blown (are you listening DH? I didn't think so!!). Thankfully he is controlling it with diet & exercise so far

Technically speaking mine was full blown, but in reality I had just crossed the A1C line from prediabetes to diabetes - after three years of a LOT of hard work my A1C is now consistently down to almost 5.0 :D

I know several people who didn't pay attention to their condition, and they eventually required insulin. After that things reached the point where toes were amputated and other serious issues developed related to diabetes. There is now a connection between diabetes and Alzheimer's. My body had my attention.

It took a great deal of work to get things turned around - even with my mild version, and it was expensive - but frankly - I considered the money better spent now than in 10-15 years when doctors and possibly hospitals would wind up getting much more. I know me well enough that I couldn't/wouldn't push myself hard enough to do it on my own and I am very thankful for those who helped me. Now I just need to avoid the trap of thinking that I can relax due vigilance - thankfully all of the work has become fun and I can't imagine stopping now ;) It really has been a change of lifestyle and THAT is hard.

[OakLeaf]

Way to go, Catrin.

[Crankin]

You really deserve a treat, Catrin.
A healthy one.

[Dogmama]

I know several people who didn't pay attention to their condition, and they eventually required insulin. After that things reached the point where toes were amputated and other serious issues developed related to diabetes.

My 5'6" husband says he has to control his diabetes because he is already too short.

Catrin, I know what a struggle it is. We don't even watch "Cake Boss" anymore because it kicks off cravings. It's only been about four months, but he has dropped 30 pounds, goes to the gym & continues to eat properly. And really, the diabetic diet is quite healthy.

[Catrin]

My 5'6" husband says he has to control his diabetes because he is already too short.

Catrin, I know what a struggle it is. We don't even watch "Cake Boss" anymore because it kicks off cravings. It's only been about four months, but he has dropped 30 pounds, goes to the gym & continues to eat properly. And really, the diabetic diet is quite healthy.

It sounds like your DH is doing great Dogmama! I remember when I started this journey 3 years ago. It seemed that all I had to do to drop one pound was to lift my arm once or twice - wish it was still that easy :rolleyes:

Ice cream is still a weakness of mine, and I will eat it now but only in very small amounts (2-3 tablespoons up to no more than 1/2 cup - and only on days where I've exerted myself). I don't find my diet to be restrictive, but I am very used to it.

[OakLeaf]

Nutrition epiphany of the year:

When I'm craving pizza, it's probably just the SALT my body wants.

D'oh. I KNOW how prone I am to a mild hyponatremia. I also know how allergic I am to yeast, milk, and wheat (among other things). :rolleyes:

Next time my fingers start reaching for the phone I'm going to try dropping a Zenergize tablet or two (or a scoop of that Skratch Labs everyday hydration as soon as I can get my hands on some).

For some reason the things I normally like to eat for dinner just do not taste right loaded up with salt, not in the amounts I need in summertime, anyhow. Pizza, on the other hand, is a natural born electrolyte delivery vehicle. :p

[lph]

Seen this? Surprisingly moving. I love the shaggy guy in the middle going "Wow."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaHPND2QJg

[indysteel]

Seen this? Surprisingly moving. I love the shaggy guy in the middle going "Wow."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaHPND2QJg

Joyous indeed! Thanks for sharing that!

[silversurfer]

Seen this? Surprisingly moving. I love the shaggy guy in the middle going "Wow."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBaHPND2QJg

Wonderful. Thank you

[snapdragen]

That's wonderful, thank you!

[lph]

Pet peeve of the day: people who state something blindingly obvious or completely unconfrontational as though they were making a bold and provocative stand on a hot topic.

"Ok, so I'm bad, but I love chocolate". :rolleyes:

Please. Just stop. Unless you're under 16.

[indysteel]

Woot! DH and I just signed up for a kayak tour in Maine during our upcoming vacation. I picked a company with a great reputation that shuttles you to the "quiet" side of the island for four-hour tours. I'm so excited.

We're also meeting up with a local we "know" from another cycling forum to get some tips on where to ride. We're renting a house outside of Bar Harbor, and he told us that the road on which we're staying allows for some great riding straight from our door. Yippie!

[Pax]

Indy - That sounds like a wonderful trip!!

[indysteel]

Thanks, Pax. I'm getting increasingly excited. When I was about five, I spent the better part of a summer on a "pond" in New Hampshire, where a branch of my mom's family lives. I haven't been to New England since (minus a short stay in Boston), but I've long had a romantic attachment to it, based on my early, but vivid, memories of that summer. I wish it weren't so far away. I'd really like to find a place that DH and I can revisit regularly; a second home of sorts. Kind of like you and Key West.

[Catrin]

This sounds wonderful Indy! Hopefully you are starting a new family tradition :cool:

[indysteel]

This sounds wonderful Indy! Hopefully you are starting a new family tradition :cool:

Too bad the cats can't come!!!

[Crankin]

Jealous.
I've only been there once... we stayed in Southwest harbor and it was really relaxing. It was about a year before DH and DS started riding. I want to go back and do lots more.

[indysteel]

Jealous.
I've only been there once... we stayed in Southwest harbor and it was really relaxing. It was about a year before DH and DS started riding. I want to go back and do lots more.

You're so close! You should go! We're staying in a rental house outside of the center of Bar Harbor. I'm thrilled to have more space and privacy. Plus, I hate having to eat out every meal. This arrangement will be much more relaxing. My only concern is fitting everything in, but I think I need to accept that that's just not possible.

[snapdragen]

That sounds so fun Indy! You and B are going to have a great time.

[OakLeaf]

Indy, that sounds great!

Pax, so glad you got to have a good day with your mom and your honey.

[Pax]

Thanks, Pax. I'm getting increasingly excited. When I was about five, I spent the better part of a summer on a "pond" in New Hampshire, where a branch of my mom's family lives. I haven't been to New England since (minus a short stay in Boston), but I've long had a romantic attachment to it, based on my early, but vivid, memories of that summer. I wish it weren't so far away. I'd really like to find a place that DH and I can revisit regularly; a second home of sorts. Kind of like you and Key West.

Understand the New England attachment, I was born and spent my early years out on Cape Cod; I don't get back there often enough.

I used to love going new places all the time, but now I seek out comfort and relaxation more. Having a place to return to provides that; it's still fun to do the new places, but setting aside some vacation time/funds to "go home" is worth it's weight in gold.

[Catrin]

What's up with all of the Chinese spam? I assume it is Chinese script, and I assume it is spam...

[Eden]

It is indeed Chinese and it looks rather suspiciously like spam.... people who post stuff like that probably get paid by the click. They don't necessarily care where they put it up - it doesn't cost them anything to put it here.

[indysteel]

I'm so sad. There's been a case in the local papers this week about a 3-year old who died at the hands of her mother's boyfriend. Apparently, it was the granddaughter of a former employee of where I work. The news reports indicate that the child's aunt had contacted the police within the last 5 weeks to alert them to what she believed was an abusive situation. The police investigated and turned the matter over to the Department of Child Services. They either did not act or didn't take aggressive enough action to remove the child. The boyfriend has been charged with murder, and the mother's role in all of this is still under investigation. She just had a baby six or so weeks ago with this man, too. It just makes me so sick.

[snapdragen]

What's up with all of the Chinese spam? I assume it is Chinese script, and I assume it is spam...

And you're only seeing those that made it through! Aventure Girl's and my fingers are broken from deleting all that @#$&%#. :D

[Catrin]

And you're only seeing those that made it through! Aventure Girl's and my fingers are broken from deleting all that @#$&%#. :D


Thank you and Aventure Girl for taking it for the team...I guess to them it only matters that it was posted for a second but I just don't get it.

[snapdragen]

Thank you and Aventure Girl for taking it for the team...I guess to them it only matters that it was posted for a second but I just don't get it.

It's one of the mysteries of the universe. :rolleyes:

[Catrin]

I've noticed what appears to be missing posts from last night across multiple threads. These were normal posts, not spam or questionable at all. I did sent a PM to the administrator.

[Crankin]

Yup, I thought I was going crazy. I know I said something after Malkin's last post on the food allergy thread.

[indysteel]

I've noticed what appears to be missing posts from last night across multiple threads. These were normal posts, not spam or questionable at all. I did sent a PM to the administrator.

Jeff posted a sticky early this morning about the issue. There was a software upgrade that went awry.

[Catrin]

Jeff posted a sticky early this morning about the issue. There was a software upgrade that went awry.

I didn't see it, and still haven't. Probably just haven't looked in the right place...

[OakLeaf]

What do you say in possibly your last conversation with someone to whom you never had anything to say? Saying what I feel won't bring me closure and would just be mean at this point. I'm not going to hear anything that would bring me closure, either - he's already had plenty of opportunities to say what he needs to, and showed no inclination to do so even when he was aware.

I know I need to pick up the phone to support my mom. I have no idea what to say when she answers.

[Blueberry]

What do you say in possibly your last conversation with someone to whom you never had anything to say? Saying what I feel won't bring me closure and would just be mean at this point. I'm not going to hear anything that would bring me closure, either - he's already had plenty of opportunities to say what he needs to, and showed no inclination to do so even when he was aware.

I know I need to pick up the phone to support my mom. I have no idea what to say when she answers.

(((((Oakleaf))))) No advice to give, just support.

[indysteel]

(((((Oakleaf))))) No advice to give, just support.

+1. I'm so sorry, Oak. Hugs....

[Catrin]

Sorry to read this Oakleaf, sending you support and hugs as well.

[indysteel]

I didn't see it, and still haven't. Probably just haven't looked in the right place...

Go to the top of the "open topic non cycling" subforum and look for the sticky. I'd post a link, but I've yet to figure out how to do that on my iPhone.

[Owlie]

What do you say in possibly your last conversation with someone to whom you never had anything to say? Saying what I feel won't bring me closure and would just be mean at this point. I'm not going to hear anything that would bring me closure, either - he's already had plenty of opportunities to say what he needs to, and showed no inclination to do so even when he was aware.

I know I need to pick up the phone to support my mom. I have no idea what to say when she answers.

(((Oak)))

[lph]

I'm so sorry Oakleaf. I feel for you, I really do.

[Crankin]

Oak, I want to say I'm sorry, but I guess I'm a little thick here... don't quite get who you are talking about. I assume it's your dad, but I never assume anything anymore!

[redrhodie]

I'm sorry Oak. It's hard not to have some regrets in that situation, but I think you're right that saying what you feel at this point would be mean. If he's still present, can you ask him some questions about his life that you don't know? I wish I had gotten more info from my dad about my grandmother's health.

[Anelia]

Can somebody tell me why my last 2 posts were deleted? They weren't offensive, or advertising or anything. One of it was a recipe in the Nutrition and Hydration forum, I put a lot of effort writing the recipe, taking and uploading pictures to describe the process. And the other one was about endurance racing in the Mountain biking forum. I'm confused :(

[snapdragen]

Can somebody tell me why my last 2 posts were deleted? They weren't offensive, or advertising or anything. One of it was a recipe in the Nutrition and Hydration forum, I put a lot of effort writing the recipe, taking and uploading pictures to describe the process. And the other one was about endurance racing in the Mountain biking forum. I'm confused :(

From Jeff's post:

Due to a failed software upgrade initiated by our hosting provider, in combination with a hardware failure in the backup system, we had to restore the forums from backup and currently have only been able to restore posts as of 1:10AM on Friday, August 31st.

We are working on retrieving additional posts, and have blocked new posts during the interim so that they don't interfere with the restore process. You can read posts, but you cannot reply or create new threads.

Thank you for your patience and please accept my apologies for the lost posts from today. We are working to restore as much as we can, as quickly as possible.

- Jeff

[Anelia]

Thanks, snapgarden!

[OakLeaf]

Thanks, all. Yep, my dad. He's gone.

He was nonresponsive when I called (I'd spoken to him the day before) - my mom put the phone to his ear and I just told him I was sorry he'd had to suffer so badly and that I wished him peace.

Had a good conversation with my sister today. I'm crying more than I thought I would - she said the same thing, and we both agreed that it's not important that we don't know why, but just to go with it and not shut the feeling down.

[indysteel]

((((Oak)))). I'm very sorry for your loss. I'm glad you're letting yourself grieve, not just for the most immediate loss, but also for all the losses you've felt in the past in your relationship with your father. I hope you find peace.

[Wahine]

(((((Oak))))). I'm sorry. It sounds like this is a tough transition. I hope you find clarity. I'm glad you have your sister to talk it through with.

[Owlie]

(((Oak)))

[snapdragen]

Big hug Oak.

[Crankin]

I am sorry, Oak. It's good not to question the tears. It's normal.

[lph]

I'm so sorry, Oak. (((Hugs)))

My experience is that it's harder and more upsetting to grieve for a complicated or unresolved relationship than a close and warm one.

[salsabike]

I'm so sorry, Oak. (((Hugs)))

My experience is that it's harder and more upsetting to grieve for a complicated or unresolved relationship than a close and warm one.

I was just about to say exactly this. My best friend had a very awful mother. When her mother died, she had to give up that last little vestige of a dream that her mother could be a loving parent. It is such painful stuff. I am sorry, Oak. I am glad you've forged your own good life.

[emily_in_nc]

My sympathies, Oak. I had a loving relationship with my father, but somewhat complicated (he and my mom's divorce and aftermath was messy and difficult, and I had issues with his second wife while I was growing up). Losing my dad was the hardest thing I've ever had to go through. It takes time to find peace, but I wish you that in the coming months and years.

[Desert Tortoise]

Oak, I'm so sorry. I hope you find peace. I'm glad you have your sister to talk to.

dt

[Catrin]

I am so sorry Oak, many hugs and warm thoughts headed your way. I never knew my father, and I could not have a more complicated relationship with my mother. Loss is hard enough to deal with, but even more so when the relationship is...complicated.

(((Oakleaf)))

[redrhodie]

I'm sorry Oakleaf.

[NbyNW]

Well folks, we made it to London in one piece! But the dog, the baby and I have some serious jet lag going on ...

[shootingstar]

I'm sorry for your loss of your father, Oak.

NBNW, glad you got to London but that was a long trek for baby..

[lph]

Wow, the latest spammer (in the commuting tires thread) is a neat one. Warm praise in chatty and fluent English, designed to make any reader feel friendly. Looks a bit stupid when they're praising something that doesn't exist in the thread (a blog), but hey, can't win 'em all ;-)

[goldfinch]

I paid $90 for a digital photography workshop for photographing wildlife. The only thing the instructor suggested was using the running man setting on the SLR and taking lots of pictures, playing with the settings. Which settings? Who knows, she didn't tell me. She was more interested in showing off her expensive digiscoping toys.

What a waste.

[indysteel]

DH and I headed home after a week in Maine (we're 16 hours into a 21 hour drive). It was s lovely week. We stayed in a charming and private rental home that was a home away from home. We were about 15 minutes outside of Acadia National Park. Thanks to almost perfect weather, we were able to do a lot. We went sea kayaking in Somes Sound and also kayaking in Long Pond, where we saw a number of loons. We road aimost all of the carriage roads in the park and did a road ride with a man we know from RBR's forums. We also hiked a bit. I found the hiking in the park difficult. The granite was just really tough on my knees and feet. We stupidly opted to take our lighter hiking shoes. That was a mistake. We also spent some time eating and shopping in Bar Harbor. It was a fun town to explore. Back to reality!

[Pax]

Sounds like a great vacation, Indy!!

[indysteel]

It really was, Pax! I loved the area. Now we're an hour from home. I can't wait to see the cats!

How are you doing? You were on my mind this week. I'm so sorry times are tough right now.

[OakLeaf]

Indy, sounds wonderful. :)



I know I'm beating this drum to death, but there have been so many posts attacking so-called "alternative" therapies (meaning, therapies that were used successfully for thousands of years and have been suppressed more or less for the past hundred years) - and most of the bases for the attacks are (1) attacking classical, abandoned theories (similar to attacking north/western medicine because bleeding someone to balance their humours is patently unhelpful) and (2) claiming that they have poor success rates. I just have to re-emphasize that the success rates of other than north/western therapies, while they're admittedly often modest, are at least as good as the success rates of contemporary north/western therapies, and the intended devastation in lives (commonly known as "side effects") is nowhere near as great.

The subject comes to mind again because the literature has been reviewed yet again in the news (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/sep/21/drugs-industry-scandal-ben-goldacre).

[Owlie]

, and the intended devastation in lives (commonly known as "side effects") is nowhere near as great.


Uh, what?

I sort-of agree with you. There is a place for pharmaceutical intervention. There is also a place for *some* traditional therapies (though I have to wonder what you mean by that). Some traditional therapies (like some drugs) are crap. Some of them, like drugs, work for some/many/most people. I'm not sure that underhanded dealings by a pharmaceutical company, though, means that pharmaceuticals are inherently bad and that "alternative" medicine is therefore better. I'd also like to know which ones you have in mind that were "used successfully."

And I'm pretty sure that the goal of modern drug design is "greatest efficacy, fewest side effects." But that's just me and my "Western medical science" training, surely. ;)

[indysteel]

Ugh. My husband's best friend lost his father unexpectedly in February. Now, this same man's mother is under hospice care. She's had an eleven (yes, eleven) year fight with breast cancer and, sadly, the cancer is finally claiming victory. It's been a long struggle, and I'm heartbroken about it. She's like a second mother to my husband and someone I've grown extremely fond of myself in a relatively short period of time. She's a gutsy lady and has handled much hardship and pain with incredible courage and grace. I cried myself to sleep last night and woke up at 3 a.m. only to start crying again. It arguably goes without saying, but cancer sucks.

[Pax]

(((((Indy))))), I'm so sorry for your pain.

Just heard my SIL's younger sister has Stage II breast cancer. She is 44, lives alone far from all of us, and found the lump a year ago when she had no health insurance. She recently got a job with benefits and had it checked.

[spokewench]

Indysteel So sorry for your friend's mother, you, your husband and your friend. The only thing I can say right now about this is it sucks! I'm tired of cancer taking the best, the brightest, and the loved.

[indysteel]

Thanks for your support, ladies. I feel sort of silly being as upset as I am. I haven't known her for long, but she's one of those people that just makes an impact right from the get go. She's sort of larger than life. Plus, I have a soft spot in my heart for her son. He's been so dedicated to her through her long struggle. He's such a good son. It breaks my heart that he's going to lose both parents in the course of about six months.

I'm so sorry about your SIL's sister, Pax. Cancer's bad enough. Add in health insurance issues and it really sucks. I sure hope her prognosis is good.

I think we need a group hug.

[OakLeaf]

Oh man, Pax, Indy, friends ... hugs and prayers to all who need them.

[goldfinch]

Indy, sounds wonderful. :)



I know I'm beating this drum to death, but there have been so many posts attacking so-called "alternative" therapies (meaning, therapies that were used successfully for thousands of years and have been suppressed more or less for the past hundred years) - and most of the bases for the attacks are (1) attacking classical, abandoned theories (similar to attacking north/western medicine because bleeding someone to balance their humours is patently unhelpful) and (2) claiming that they have poor success rates. I just have to re-emphasize that the success rates of other than north/western therapies, while they're admittedly often modest, are at least as good as the success rates of contemporary north/western therapies, and the intended devastation in lives (commonly known as "side effects") is nowhere near as great.

The subject comes to mind again because the literature has been reviewed yet again in the news (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/sep/21/drugs-industry-scandal-ben-goldacre).

Just because many modern medicines have questionable effectiveness does not mean that "alternative" therapies are effective. And think of all the wonders modern medicine has brought us. Like vaccines, antibiotics, birth control pills, surgery with anesthesia.

It is all about evidence. Tradition is not evidence. Old traditions, new medicine, all need to show that they are effective and that the benefits outweigh the risks.

http://whatstheharm.net/

[OakLeaf]

North/western medicine has been very effective in bleeding control and (until evolution outpaced the gross overuse of antibiotics) infection control. "Modern" medicine is a misnomer, since therapies with a historical basis have also evolved and changed and learned, and are equally "modern" as north/western systems that are less than 300 years old and lack long-term validation.

That's all. The major progress was over 50 years ago. Infection control and hemostasis are what equalized life expectancies between childbearing women and men - and ultimately resulted in women's greater life expectancies - and things have been getting worse ever since. Invasive therapies' (including medications') benefits at this point almost never outweigh the ... you said "risks," but it's not "risks," it's absolute harms.

It's not just one drug company. It's all of them, and the medical device manufacturers, and the hospitals, and the surgeons.

Tell me about anesthesia. Tell me how doctors are addressing the long-term cognitive deficits and personality changes brought about by anesthesia. (Or even how they know whether those problems are brought about directly by the anesthesia, or by the after-effects of the pain and terror suffered by an immobilized, anesthetized patient.) Show me the evidence that orthopedic surgery is more effective than physical therapy. <cue crickets>

The point of the article (and many many others including recent ones in the medical journals that I've cited before) is that the so-called "evidence" is at best cherry-picked, and often outright falsified.

[goldfinch]

It still is all about the science and the evidence. Yes, there have been strides in the last 50 years, especially with heart disease. There are many, many examples. Surgery has progressed with less invasive procedures with even hysterectomies done laparoscopically or rendered unnecessary by other medical treatment. Look at diabetes. My spouse is Type 1. In the 50 years he has had the disease there have been huge strides in treatment. New forms of Insulin. New delivery systems. Injections of Glucagon to rescue him from an insulin reaction. And maybe most valuable of all, the ability to test your blood sugar. Science brought this about, tradition did nothing. Show me the strides in altmed. I see none. Put it to the test. Otherwise it is meaningless or worse when people forgo what works or gives them better odds for what does not work at all. I know a woman who died of breast cancer. Breast cancer often can be treated successfully. Chemo is poison but the harm can outweigh the risks. She instead delayed standard treatment for a so called natural cure. She died what I believe was a needless death.

I too am critical of drug companies. I used to lobby for various health care reforms. Not all lobbyists are industry shills. I strongly supported the registration of all drug trials. I pushed for the funding and publication of replication studies. I believe that all data that comes from government funded research should be public. I supported government funding of research as it tends to have less bias than industry funded research. I like Ben Goldacre. He criticizes what needs to be criticized. Including altmed.

The goal is to improve medicine, not throw it away.

[OakLeaf]

Show me someone who is immortal as the result of north/western medicine before claiming anyone's death was needless or preventable. Every death is necessary. No death is preventable. Many deaths are unpleasant, but it's insane to intentionally make death more protracted and more unpleasant. And I am not throwing away one nanosecond of quality of life in the quest for miserable, debilitated immortality that is invasive medicine.

[Catrin]

Show me someone who is immortal as the result of north/western medicine before claiming anyone's death was needless or preventable. Every death is necessary. No death is preventable. Many deaths are unpleasant, but it's insane to intentionally make death more protracted and more unpleasant. And I am not throwing away one nanosecond of quality of life in the quest for miserable, debilitated immortality that is invasive medicine.

Hear ye, hear ye! I second this heartily.

[goldfinch]

Show me someone who is immortal as the result of north/western medicine before claiming anyone's death was needless or preventable. Every death is necessary. No death is preventable. Many deaths are unpleasant, but it's insane to intentionally make death more protracted and more unpleasant. And I am not throwing away one nanosecond of quality of life in the quest for miserable, debilitated immortality that is invasive medicine.

So would you forgo chemo if you got breast cancer?

We don't need the strawman of immortality.. Did I say anything about the quest for miserable, debilitated immortality? I too do not want a treatment that is unlikely to work and will give me lots of pain. But my friend who died without treating her cancer easily could have had 20, 30 or more years. Another friend who did have a double mastectomy and went through a year of chemo and radiation now has lived 10 years and has a very low chance of her cancer reoccurring. She certainly has no regrets of using unpleasant, invasive, treatment.

My father had unpleasant and invasive treatment for TB in the 1920s, pre-antibiotics. He survived and lived for many more years with no regrets about having a lung removed, his ribs around that lung removed, and living in a Sanitarium through his teenage years.

Some treatments are unpleasant yet yield good results.

But I do agree with Oakleaf's dismay over end of life care. There is lots to be done on that level. There is a mix of family needs and denial with the drive to do something that can end up with the system doing too much at great economic and personal cost. A study was done looking at how doctors die and far less "state of the art" care was done. We can learn from that work. End of life choices need to be carefully thought out ahead of time. It isn't easy. For example, you likely want to be ventilated if you have pneumonia, waiting for the antibiotics to work, are are expected to survive. But you might not want to be ventilated if you are dying and the pneumonia may simply hasten your death by a bit.

[OakLeaf]

I would 100% forego chemo. And surgery. And I've already made the decision never to be screened and, should I find something "suspicious," never to have it investigated, except for skin lesions that can be removed very simply. Take a look at the rates of "complications," i.e., the permanent devastation to quality of life. Everyone has to make her own decision, obviously, but people need to make informed decisions, and when information about complications is so diffuse, that's extremely time-consuming, technical and difficult.

If a treatment truly yielded good results, then obviously I would weigh the duration of the impairment of quality of life, against the likelihood of good quality of life returning in the near future. But most invasive treatments at best substitute one impairment for another.

Diabetes is a perfect example. Yes, treatments have gotten ever more convenient - and ever more expensive - and ever more toxic to liver and kidneys. At the same time, diabetes rates continue to skyrocket, and no serious efforts are being made toward prevention. If medicine were truly divorced from its profit motive, the situation would be reversed - fewer and fewer people would get diabetes, even if it were at the cost of poorer treatments for those who still did.

[redrhodie]

I would have surgery and radiation again in a heart beat. It wasn't that bad. I'm doing really well, and feeling great. Knowing there was this thing growing inside me, and not removing it, would have been way more stressful. My bf's mom had a double radical mastectomy 40 something years ago, and is still living.

My friend's mom's breast cancer was stage 4 when she found it. It had already spread to her bones. She's lost her lower teeth and part of her jaw. She is no longer able to sing (she was an opera singer). She is in a lot of pain. She still has life left in her, but is beginning to suffer. She can't do most of the things she loves anymore, but she is not ready to die. She still has a positive outlook and loves life. She wishes she had caught it sooner.

[OakLeaf]

(((((red))))) That's the thing - everyone does have to make her own decision, and the fact that my choice is different from yours is in NO WAY a judgment on your decision. I'm glad you had access to the treatments you chose, and although I'm sure we both wish they were more comfortable and less debilitating, I'm very glad that you're happy with your decision. I mean it. I think really, being comfortable with the decision is even more important than being comfortable with the treatment.

[Crankin]

I don't really want to get into this discussion, but I do mostly agree with Goldfinch. We have a lot to do in the area of end of life decision making/care. But, in the end, one may never know how you will feel. My mom had a DNR/living will, but in the end, every time my brother asked her if she wanted to keep going during her last crisis after a liver transplant, her answer was yes. She was 67 and she emphatically was not ready to die. Of course, when the last thing didn't work, my dad and brother made that decision for her.
And, yes, like Oak states, we wouldn't have to deal with a lot of these decisions, if we actually did preventative care. But, that extends to the consumers, too, not just medical professionals (disclaimer, I am one of them, though thankfully, not a doctor!). Many people just don't take responsibility for their health, even when they have insurance. We all know how hard it is to get people to exercise and eat healthily. I don't want to go off on that tangent, but at a certain level, if people refuse to use the things that we know will work to avoid actually getting diseases like diabetes in the first place, then I am not sure what we can do. This is an area that really interests me, because so many people have distortions about health, fitness, and just being overall well in mind and body. I see it every day in my work, even though I am dealing with mental health. For example, it's quite difficult for me to get people to actually use/practice things like breathing, visualization, muscle relaxation, or exercise that are proven empirically to reduce anxiety and depression. I tell them I am writing them a "prescription," just like the doctor who gives them medication, but this comes with no side effects. Let's just say, it's very hard to get this point across, even with people who are well educated. My own friends would rather take a pill.
I would never refuse treatment for anything, unless I was told I had like two days to live. However, I wouldn't be heroic, either, after a certain point.

Today is Yom Kippur and I decided to repent for my sins by going on a bike ride :rolleyes:. I needed some space; I had to hospitalize a 6 year old last week and I have two teenagers who are suicidal/in crisis. I decided to make it a destination ride, but I did an 11 mile loop, then I went to Trader Joe's where I had a trauma, because they moved the nuts and cranberries! So, I rode 15.5 miles, I feel better and now I can relax.

[indysteel]

(((red))). Well put, Oak. I very much agree.

I often wonder if part of the difficulty for those with terminal illness or illness that ultimately progresses to terminal, is knowing how far down a certain treatment road they really want to go and how and when to make that decision. It often seems to me that medical intervention takes on a life of its own. Once you start, it's hard to know when or if to stop, even when the writing is more or less on the wall. My husband's friend's mother brings this to mind. She's been on some form of chemo and/or radiation for years and despite the fact that her prognosis has been bad for a long time, she kept with it, treatment after treatment. It wasn't until late last week--after a botched biopsy--that she reached the end of her rope. Sadly, I don't know that any of her doctors helped her navigate that decision anywhere along the way.

I may have linked to this before, but this (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/02/100802fa_fact_gawande?currentPage=all) article from the New Yorker gave me much food for thought when I read it.

[OakLeaf]

This goes more to my original observation than to where this thread has drifted to, but here it is, since I've been thinking about it all afternoon.

Of all the safe, effective, time-tested herbal medicines in use today, there is one that's way, way more likely to be prescribed by US doctors than any other one.

Under US federal law, that particular herbal medicine is illegal to buy, sell, or grow in one's own backyard.

And the reason it's the most likely to be prescribed is BECAUSE it's illegal, and because of that, the pharmaceutical companies haven't been able to isolate one or two of the compounds in it, separate them from the other compounds in the plant, synthesize them, and monetize them, then bribe doctors to prescribe it with branded geegaws and free CME.

If that isn't irony, I don't know what is.

[salsabike]

I may have linked to this before, but this (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/02/100802fa_fact_gawande?currentPage=all) article from the New Yorker gave me much food for thought when I read it.


I think that is the best and most thoughtful article I have ever read on this, and I've read many. Thank you, thank you, thank you. It is a very active topic in our house right now and this article is a huge help.

[jobob]

I think that is the best and most thoughtful article I have ever read on this, and I've read many. Thank you, thank you, thank you. It is a very active topic in our house right now and this article is a huge help.

ITA, this is an excellent article. I'll show it to Lee sometime soon, we've already started to grapple with some of these issues with his dad. Thank you for posting it, I think it'll be helpful.

[indysteel]

You're very welcome, salsa and jo. I'm glad you found it helpful.

[OakLeaf]

Indy, that is a really good article. I'm not sure reading it would've broken through my family's denial, but it's somewhat comforting to know that so many families are so deep in denial when they enter hospice.

For me a really important point is this one: "Can mere discussions really do so much?" - not only comfort patients, but extend their useful lives. Parallel that with the recent study on doctor empathy in diabetes care (http://journals.lww.com/academicmedicine/Fulltext/2012/09000/The_Relationship_Between_Physician_Empathy_and.26.aspx). Empathy and conversation, of course, are the most basic forms of energy healing.

[Sky King]

reeling, reeling Reading the New Yorker article flooded me with emotion and memories, thanks Indy (sorta :) )
The story of Sarah, for the most part, is the same story I experienced with my mom. My mom did not want her cancer to be her end. Her doctors were much like the Dr's in Sarah's story, wow.
Needless to say, my Mother refused to accept hospice because to her that meant she was giving up. She died in the hospital, which would have not been her original wish. She was in a morphine induced coma okay have to stop as it dredges up way to much.

Death and dying, can't be avoided but I have never met anyone who has said, "sure, I want to die a painful death from Cancer." Am sure Mimi would have many thoughts as well.
Thanks for all the great insights and opinions. What a great discussion.
stacy

[indysteel]

((((Sky King)))). I'm so sorry about your mom. And hugs to anyone, most especially Mimi, who has or is facing end of life issues.

Like I said, the New Yorker piece has provided me much food for thought, not the least of which is what role, if any, I should play in helping a loved one dealing with a terminal illness one way or another with end-of-life issues. We are so conditioned to support the "fight" against cancer (as a for instance) and to remain positive and hopeful. It often seems terribly insensitive to even hint at anything but success or to discuss the possibility/inevitability of death in anything but the most abstract of ways. But as the article so eloquently points out, there are other discussions worth having, discussions that medical professionals aren't always initiating or facilitating. How can we lovingly and sensitively broach these subjects with someone? I feel inadequate when it comes to truly helping someone, beyond the usual "you're in my thoughts and prayers."

[Sky King]

then I could really drift and go into the role of primary care giver for the 87 yr old Dad with dementia ... Perhaps another thread. Current challenge "is the anti-coagulation drug really necessary at this point"

[redrhodie]

I recently watched "How to die in Oregon", which is a documentary on HBO about the right to die. Heavy, and well done. It does show a couple of people die, so know that before deciding to watch it.

[OakLeaf]

((((((Sky King))))))


How can we lovingly and sensitively broach these subjects with someone?

I feel really inadequate too, but I don't think I really can broach any sensitive subject, including mortality but also any number of other sensitive topics, with someone who's shown no inclination to discuss it. IMO the initiative has to come from the person whose mortality is in question. I do think that having these discussions, on TV and in the magazines, and semi-anonymously here, helps the broader goal of making everyone more open to talking about it.

[indysteel]

I agree that I wouldn't initiate such a conversation. But if someone was to open that door with me, I'm not sure I'd know how best to proceed. I guess it's just something fir now that I'm glad to be cognizant of, although it may just be a matter of te before it becomes real, e.g., with my parents.

Thank you, ladies, for a thoughtful discussion about a difficult and loaded subject. I gain so much from your collective wisdom and experience.

[salsabike]

I do think that having these discussions, on TV and in the magazines, and semi-anonymously here, helps the broader goal of making everyone more open to talking about it.

Yep. And I would just add given my last few years of experience, this can let us talk about it with parents, spouses, and others we love BEFORE it becomes necessary. It helps everyone start to think it through without being on the edge of the cliff and trying to decide in two seconds while the alarms are blaring at you.

[shootingstar]

Well, there's enough denial going on right now....about my father. And to a certain point he's in minor denial. But what can we do?

But if we were to hammer at my father now about this point, that he won't live for many years now with prostate cancer at an intermediate stage..that will pull him down pyschologically and most likely he'll slide faster. He has not yet elected to take chemotherapy which will mean several wks. daily of chemotherapy. It won't stop cancer, it will only delay it and most likely chemotherapy will permanently and more quickly weaken him... Meaning his immune system will be weakened alot. He's 83, not 33.

And surgery will not stop it.

There are some complex challenges that lie ahead.. We just hope he will be still alive to witness a grandson's wedding next yr.

[Wahine]

I may have linked to this before, but this (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/02/100802fa_fact_gawande?currentPage=all) article from the New Yorker gave me much food for thought when I read it.

Thank you for that link. It was hard for me to read having gone through end of life decisions with several family members. But it also made me feel really good that I never let people skirt around the reality. I was the only one that my father spoke to straight up about dying. It was because I didn't avoid the topic. I had a cousin whose children did not want me around because my realistic "views of her cancer were not helping" and yet it was me that my cousin most wanted to discuss things with. I hope that someday we can all face our mortality in a way that let's us choose how hard we want to fight.

ETA: I have a patient right now who seems to be stuck in the denial of death and is being swept up in the forces of intervention. That article makes me want to call her up and ask her what she really wants. What does she really see happening? I know her family won't do it. They are way to invested in the idea that accepting terminal illness is failure somehow.

[Crankin]

While I am pretty sure I wouldn't get mad if someone asked about this stuff if I had a terminal illness, I will be blunt and come out and say that I hate even thinking about death. It scares the sh!t out of me, even just normal die of old age death. I don't even want to get old, frankly.
I come from a family of hypochondriacs and I've dealt with this by ignoring death completely. Most people on both sides of my family die at around 90. There's been few "bad" diseases, save for my mom. My dad has had prostate cancer for 25 years. He's 87 and still quite active. On the other hand, I've dealt with death of others (including my first baby) stoically and been fine. In fact, people accuse me of being "cold" about the subject.
I've had some tell me I have this attitude because of my religion.... sigh. Like if I was waiting for my eternal reward, I would welcome death.
In the end, I doubt I would want heroic measures if I was in the state of the people in the article. I know my DH has strong feelings about no intervention.
I hated that article when I read it in the magazine and I didn't like re-reading it, either. But, I read it.

[shootingstar]

I knew my partner's mother well for over 16 years before she died.

At her wishes, she was cremated. So when my partner had to transport his mother's ashes to her desired resting spot in Ontario....he packed his panniers and included the urn of ashes. He rode up a 10% long hill and another hill to get to the airport to fly from Vancouver.

It was appropriate and poignant ....son-cyclist riding with the care and final weight of his mother's ashes on a long hill in a journey.... Ride with me in my journey, all the way to say good-bye.

I do have the photo of him climbing the hill on a sunny fall day on his way to the airport. I hope as cyclists here you are not freaked out.

[Amira]

I knew my partner's mother well for over 16 years before she died.

At her wishes, she was cremated. So when my partner had to transport his mother's ashes to her desired resting spot in Ontario....he packed his panniers and included the urn of ashes. He rode up a 10% long hill and another hill to get to the airport to fly from Vancouver.

It was appropriate and poignant ....son-cyclist riding with the care and final weight of his mother's ashes on a long hill in a journey.... Ride with me in my journey, all the way to say good-bye.

I do have the photo of him climbing the hill on a sunny fall day on his way to the airport. I hope as cyclists here you are not freaked out.

Freaked out? No, that is so beautiful and appropriate and loving. My 48 year old brother passed away very unexpectedly in March 2011. He was a professional snowboarder and adventurer and he was living and training and coaching in Tahoe at the time of his death. We had him cremated; in part, my sister and I were sure that was what he would have wanted and, second, in more practical terms it was the most reasonable and economical way to handle things. He was a free spirit and, while I know this was unconventional to my 80-something parents, we divided up his ashes and gave small amounts to many of his friends, who have taken him to all the mountains he loved and the beaches he surfed all along the Pacific Coast. Friends took him to special, meaningful places they shared and a few took him to places he wanted to go - including Alaska, New Zealand and the summit of Mt. Kilimanjaro (on his 49th birthday). I had a friend take some to the first place he loved in the mountains - Philmont Scout Camp in New Mexico. He's at Mt. Hood, in the terrain park they named for him. He's at Vail, in an out of bounds area we ski by and 'talk' to him. I 'took' him to the snowboard nationals (two weeks after he died) and again this year, leaving some ashes at the finish line of his favorite event and under the podium. I'll take him back next year, as his friends will compete in his favorite event to mark the last year he would have been eligible to race in that age class and he'll be at the start line, finish line and podium. He even rode around Tahoe with my sister and I two weeks ago (in our seatbags) and, knowing he never met a finish line he didn't like, we left him at the finish and in the lake. I still have ashes that will go on 'adventures' with us for a long time. It may seem weird, but honestly, it's been pretty cathartic to think of him out there in the places he loved. I hope someone will do that for me one day. I cannot imagine a conventional funeral any longer.

[zoom-zoom]

He even rode around Tahoe with my sister and I two weeks ago (in our seatbags) and, knowing he never met a finish line he didn't like, we left him at the finish and in the lake. I still have ashes that will go on 'adventures' with us for a long time. It may seem weird, but honestly, it's been pretty cathartic to think of him out there in the places he loved. I hope someone will do that for me one day. I cannot imagine a conventional funeral any longer.

I love knowing that you guys did that, after the fact. What a beautiful day it was to honor your brother's life like that.

I also plan to be cremated. Hopefully my loved-ones who are here after I pass will do something cool and meaningful like you guys have done for your brother.

[Amira]

I love knowing that you guys did that, after the fact. What a beautiful day it was to honor your brother's life like that.

I also plan to be cremated. Hopefully my loved-ones who are here after I pass will do something cool and meaningful like you guys have done for your brother.


I used to joke that they could scatter my ashes in the planters overlooking Neiman's shoe department, but seriously, I want to be scattered around like my brother (and in fact, in some of the same places...Tahoe and Vail among them). I figure he can come do the JDRF rides with me for years to come (I still have probably half the original container of ashes left). And, given that he had 413,660 miles on his 'super truck' when he died, I suspect he'll be cool with going to lots of different JDRF ride locations. The man did like to go places.

Talk about a surreal moment .... getting a Priority Mail box delivered to your office with ashes in it. I was taken aback at the heft of the box. My brother was so lean - imagine Lance, only about 3 inches shorter. But that box was heavy. I just kept looking at that box (through giant tears) and realizing that he HAD his priorities in the right place - I've never met anyone who lived life like my brother did. He loved what he did with a passion and he was a doer and adventurer. He left an unbelievable legacy of friends and memories and stories. He never made diddly squat monetarily, but he was the richest person I know in more important ways.

I so relate to the past few pages of posts of dealing with elderly relatives and diminished abilities, because that is my reality at the moment as well - my parents, my in-laws, my remaining aunts and uncles....and struggling through the right decisions for care, maintaining independence as long as possible and quality end of life decisions. You mourn the small losses of independence and faculties before the end, and, in the end, I expect that the loss of a parent is profound and deep, but it is a different loss entirely than that of a sibling. In our own way, we're found a way to cope and move forward (you never really get over it, though, it's something in your mind daily) and try to build something positive.

Hey, zoom-zoom, if I'm around and pedaling still, happy to have you 'ride along' on my bike one day. I hope people will do that for me, too. Think of all the great destination rides to come.

[withm]

I love this!


I used to joke that they could scatter my ashes in the planters overlooking Neiman's shoe department, but seriously, I want to be scattered around like my brother (and in fact, in some of the same places...Tahoe and Vail among them). I figure he can come do the JDRF rides with me for years to come (I still have probably half the original container of ashes left). And, given that he had 413,660 miles on his 'super truck' when he died, I suspect he'll be cool with going to lots of different JDRF ride locations. The man did like to go places.

Talk about a surreal moment .... getting a Priority Mail box delivered to your office with ashes in it. I was taken aback at the heft of the box. My brother so lean - imagine Lance, only about 3 inches shorter. But that box was heavy. I just kept looking at that box (through giant tears) and realizing that he HAD his priorities in the right place - I've never met anyone who lived life like my brother did. He loved what he did with a passion and he was a doer and adventurer. He left an unbelievable legacy of friends and memories and stories. He never made diddly squat monetarily, but he was the richest person I know in more important ways.

I so relate to the past few pages of posts of dealing with elderly relatives and diminished abilities, because that is my reality at the moment as well - my parents, my in-laws, my remaining aunts and uncles....and struggling through the right decisions for care, maintaining independence as long as possible and quality end of life decisions. You mourn the small losses of independence and faculties before the end, and, in the end, I expect that the loss of a parent is profound and deep, but it is a different loss entirely than that of a sibling. In our own way, we're found a way to cope and move forward (you never really get over it, though, it's something in your mind daily) and try to build something positive.

Hey, zoom-zoom, if I'm around and pedaling still, happy to have you 'ride along' on my bike one day. I hope people will do that for me, too. Think of all the great destination rides to come.

[zoom-zoom]

Hey, zoom-zoom, if I'm around and pedaling still, happy to have you 'ride along' on my bike one day. I hope people will do that for me, too. Think of all the great destination rides to come.

You know, I think I'm going to tell my DH that if he outlives me that I want a portion of my ashes going to anyone who will do something cool with them. I'd love to have a bit of me left in all sorts of places--places I already love and maybe places I've never been, but would have loved. :)

[indysteel]

Our friend's mother passed this morning. Her suffering is finally over. May she rest in
peace.

[Amira]

I hope your friend (and other family and friends) will find comfort and support as they grieve their loss. Someone told me last year that grief is a process, not an event. That is so true. I hope she leaves a wonderful legacy of love and good stories behind and am glad she is not suffering.


Our friend's mother passed this morning. Her suffering is finally over. May she rest in
peace.

[Amira]

You know, I think I'm going to tell my DH that if he outlives me that I want a portion of my ashes going to anyone who will do something cool with them. I'd love to have a bit of me left in all sorts of places--places I already love and maybe places I've never been, but would have loved. :)

Personally, I can't imagine doing anything else. Two different big groups of friends got together - and both groups (one in Idaho and one at Northstar at Tahoe) met at the top of the mountain for the last run of the last day of the season, talked about him, scattered his ashes and then all skied/boarded down and went out to toast him and tell stories. It dumped snow on both groups. I think he was definitely there in spirit.

I think I freaked out a poor sales clerk at the container store though. I bought probably 30 or so 4 oz. travel containers, all the same size, to send out the ashes. I guess I bought so many of them she was curious and asked me what I was going to do with them. So, I figured....well, she asked....and I told her. Not the answer she was expecting.

Even some of my friends who didn't even know my brother volunteered to take him places - that's how he got to Mt. Kilimanjaro, which I think he would have totally dug. My friend and his partner took him to the summit and videotaped it and sent it to me. So cool. Then, when they got back to base camp later, they toasted him with beers.

Finding someone I knew that was taking a scout troop to Philmont this summer was totally serendipity, but my brother loved his time at Philmont as a kid and it had a huge influence on him, so that was perfect.

He still needs to go surfing in Hawaii, though. I think I need to be the one to take him there. :)

Found two pictures - the color one is from Mt. Hood last summer with a bunch of his friends. We were at the top of the terrain park at Mt. Hood Summer Ski Camp. They also renamed the terrain park for him (he designed it and built most of it and was the longtime head snowboard coach there in summer). Coming from Texas, it was so mind-blowingly cool to be skiing in JUNE! The b/w one is from our private family event last July in Vail. This is about 100 yards or so down from the Gondola in an out of bounds (so appropriate for him) area, but one that my then 86-year old dad could get to. I will say the one thing we learned in Vail was be careful which way the wind is blowing when you are releasing ashes. Oops.

1539315394

[redrhodie]

(((Indy))) I'm sorry for your loss. She sounded like a cool woman.

[OakLeaf]

(((((Indy & friend)))))

Wonderful ideas here for honoring loved ones' legacies.

[zoom-zoom]

So sorry, Indy. The community where I grew up is mourning the loss of a wonderful 13 year old boy who spent the last year fighting a battle with cancer. This mature-beyond-his-years child has taught people in a small community much. The world lost 2 amazing people today.

[Catrin]

((((Indy)))) so sorry for your loss. Sending thoughts and prayers to you and your friends family.

[indysteel]

Thanks, ladies. So sorry about the 13-year old boy in your community, Zoom. That's just much too young.

And, Oak, I totally agree that there are some wonderful suggestions for honoring a loved one's legacy.

[Crankin]

I am sorry, Indy.
Since this is Thread Drift, I am drifting. I have 2 good things to report!
1) I just got an email that my registration is processed and I can call the company that gives the licensing exam for my counseling license. I've been studying since last January, but really intensely since July. I will probably do it during the first 2 weeks in November. Nervous. There's a high failure rate.
2) DS is leaving the Marines... he'll be coming back from Afghanistan in December. He really won't be done until March, but he has so much vacation, he won't be working much, with the transition stuff, etc. He's going to come and visit (he lives in Long Beach) and most importantly, he's going back to school. Will finish out his second year at a community college in the spring and apply to Cal State for next fall. This has been a long road. I accepted the fact he was in the military, but never really that he dropped out of college. He's scarily smart and he is destined for great things. I guess I can thank his wife for putting her foot down and saying she's had enough of being apart!

[indysteel]

Good luck on your exam, Crankin! And I'm so glad your son is coming home. I'm sure you'll be relieved to have him home, safe and sound. Good on him, too, for returning to school. I'm sure he'll have a bright future.

[Amira]

Since this is Thread Drift, I am drifting. I have 2 good things to report!
1) I just got an email that my registration is processed and I can call the company that gives the licensing exam for my counseling license. I've been studying since last January, but really intensely since July. I will probably do it during the first 2 weeks in November. Nervous. There's a high failure rate.
2) DS is leaving the Marines... he'll be coming back from Afghanistan in December. He really won't be done until March, but he has so much vacation, he won't be working much, with the transition stuff, etc. He's going to come and visit (he lives in Long Beach) and most importantly, he's going back to school. Will finish out his second year at a community college in the spring and apply to Cal State for next fall. This has been a long road. I accepted the fact he was in the military, but never really that he dropped out of college. He's scarily smart and he is destined for great things. I guess I can thank his wife for putting her foot down and saying she's had enough of being apart!


Yeah, it's really nice to have great news! Congrats on both.

[Catrin]

Crankin - congratulations on both fronts!

[OakLeaf]

Cool Crankin! Good luck on the exam - and good news about your son. :)

[Crankin]

OK, I'm taking the exam on November 7th.
I was going to do Oct. 10, but the 9th is my older son's 30th birthday and we are going out that night to celebrate (and my DH is making him wear, at least for a few minutes, the shirt he wore on his 30th birthday, that he has saved for all of these years).

[indysteel]

Anybody else get a spam PM today/last night on sex ed? Weird.

[Catrin]

Anybody else get a spam PM today/last night on sex ed? Weird.

Yep, and I reported it as I am sure most of us will who received it, probably many of us. It is perhaps a surprise that this is the first time, at least for me. I suspect the spammer thought the PM approach would require everyone at least notice the existence of the message rather than a post the moderators can remove without everyone seeing it in the first place. Obviously we don't have to open the thing, but everyone will see it in their list of messages and have to take an action to delete it. Ugh. Who spends time doing stuff like this, and why?

[Dogmama]

Got it. Deleted it without opening. Some people's children!

[indysteel]

Who spends time doing stuff like this, and why?

I was wondering the same thing. It's just so stupid.

[OakLeaf]

They get paid for it. It's all about volume.

I didn't get one ... thankfully ...

[NbyNW]

I got an email notification containing the spam earlier today, but I think the mods have since cleaned it up because I don't see it in my inbox now.

[salsabike]

NbyNW, how's London??

[OakLeaf]

Ad alert ... only because Indysteel (and others) have highly recommended the book The Gift of Fear (http://www.amazon.com/The-Gift-of-Fear-ebook/dp/B0036Z9U2A/ref=br_lf_m_1000706171_1_16_img?ie=UTF8&s=digital-text&pf_rd_p=1404609842&pf_rd_s=center-4&pf_rd_t=1401&pf_rd_i=1000706171&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0YMH30J8G77T55TNN7NV) several times here on TE - the Kindle edition is $1.99 and loanable. Just bought it myself ... it might be a while before I get around to reading it, but whenever I do, I'll be happy to loan it to any TE'rs who are interested.

[NbyNW]

NbyNW, how's London??

It's always hard to leave friends behind when we move, but we're enjoying London. Mostly we're enjoying being together again -- DH started his job here when NBaby was 2 weeks old, and then we followed in September when he was 4 months old.

We brought the dog with us too, and we take him for daily walks in Greenwich Park. The Park is still a mess from the Olympics ... huge chunks of it are still fenced off, and will probably remain so for the winter as the lawns recover. Still, can't complain. We are in beautiful surroundings with lots of history, so there is plenty to explore!

Slowly beginning to meet people and make friends. Transit is so convenient, we've decided to go carless. Maybe when DS is old enough to ride in a trailer I'll buy a bike, but for now transit and walking gets us where we need to go.

[salsabike]

Ah, that sounds nice. They DO have really nice parks. And the museums! Boyoboy. The museums are really truly awesome. I'm glad you're enjoying it.

[Biciclista]

oh cool! i want to hear more about your London adventures!

[redrhodie]

While on my bike on Friday, I got a call from my brother asking me if I could take him to the ER because he was having chest pain. I told him I was on my bike and it would take me a while to get there, and he should call an ambulance, but he wanted me to take him. Luckily I was only 10 minutes from home, and he lives a couple of blocks away, but those were a long 10 minutes, let me tell you.

I got him to the ER, and sure enough, he was having a heart attack. They took him by ambulance to another hospital where they did a cardiac cath, and implanted a stent. He is doing well, but there was damage. I'm going to be looking into getting him into cardiac rehab. Hopefully that will help.

I just keep dealing with what's thrown at me as best I can, but I need a break, like a year with no one getting sick or dying. Please.

[snapdragen]

I know the feeling red. Mom fell while going to the bathroom at 3 am last week. I'm not sure how long she had been calling my name before I woke up. Thankfully, she was not hurt. I think it took both of us a week to calm down after that.

I'd love a couple of weeks in Maui, with no responsibilities.

[Blueberry]

(((((redrhodie))))))

Thank goodness you were able to take him to ER, and that they were able to do those procedures quickly. I don't know what's involved in cardiac rehab, but hopefully your level of activity will be a good example for him:)

[indysteel]

((((Red and Red Brother)))). I'm so sorry. I'm glad he took the pain seriously and got to the hospital promptly. How old is your brother if I may ask? My boss had a heart attack 11 years ago at age 55. He, too, got a stent and went on a statin drug. No problems since and is in great shape. I hope your brother also has a positive outcome.

[redrhodie]

He's 51. Unfortunately, the chest pain started at 2am, and he didn't call me until 10am, so it was pretty serious by that point. He didn't have a lot of pain, he described it as being like a stomach virus, hence the waiting to see if it would go away on its own. Still, he drove home from work with it (he works nights), walked up two flights of stairs, and then back down them again. I think my family tends to have a too high tolerance to pain.

But hopefully getting him into the rehab program (which so far hasn't been mentioned by his doctor) will be an option. It looks like a good program that teaches nutrition as well as exercise and weight management. He really ignored his health for a long time, so he needs professional help.

I could see this coming, but all my nagging to get him to a doctor didn't work. I did try, especially when his color became ashen recently. I really hope he will make some changes and live a long healthy life.

Snap, so sorry about your mom. That is so stressful. Big hug.

[OakLeaf]

Oh, man (((((red))))) (((((snap)))))

Wishing your brother a quick and uncomplicated recovery, and all of you a break, for sure.

[Catrin]

Oh my Red! I really hope he gets through this without further complications. {{{{Red and brother}}}}

[emily_in_nc]

{{{{{{{{{{{{{ Red }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

That is scary! Very glad he got in touch with you, but hopefully the short delay did not make matters worse. Keep us posted on his condition.

[Crankin]

Denial is a huge factor in people having a cardiac event.
I am amazed how many doctors don't prescribe cardiac rehab. It's always holistic and involves both physical and mental health. It's never too late to start.
I hope you get a break, soon, Red.

[redrhodie]

So, his nurse brought up rehab today before I even got there, and sent a note to his doctor to see if he's a good candidate, which makes me relieved. He's up and walking and seems totally normal. Just being in the hospital is sooooo boring. He is handling that part better than I would. And the food is as junky as the cliche says, but the staff are great, especially the nurses. If anyone on here is a nurse, I tip my hat to you. You are the best. It really takes a special kind of amazing person to do what they do.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Red, I hope your brother is able to make some lifestyle changes that will get him a little healthier. I'm sure he's happy to have a supportive sister like you.


I've been upping my fitness walking after a 'slow spell' where I've slowly but steadily been getting out of shape. Also added yoga several times a week. So I pulled out my trusty pedometer that's always been so dependable...
Wow, I was more out of shape than I thought, because it seemed so hard to walk a measley 2 miles now! I used to walk 5 miles every other day no problem, but now it took forever to achieve two miles. But I've kept plugging at it for the past three months. I just got used to a puny 2 miles being the new '5 mile standard' instead. :(
Last week my pedometer konked out and I couldnt find the right battery (try buying a battery right after a hurricane). I figured I deserved a new one anyway after all these years so I ordered a fancy new one online, and it came right away. I set it up (I know my stride length already) and went for my usual walk this morning. First I checked it two times by walking 100 steps, and sure enough it registered exactly 100 steps, each time.
Um....turns out my supposed 2 mile walk which seemed to take forever is actually a 3.5 mile walk. The new pedometer said so, and at home I mapped my route online to double check, and yes it was indeed 3.5 miles. Duh!
So, that was great, I've been walking a lot more than I thought i had been, and it wasn't taking me forever to walk 2 miles after all! Pretty good feeling. :p
Yay for pedometers that work right!

[indysteel]

That's a riot, Lisa! I'm so glad it was the pedometer and not you!!

By the way, thanks again for the yogic "push"! I went to class Thursday at my usual studio and yesterday and today at the new studio. It just feels so, so good. Between that, resistance work and running, I am feeling as close to my old self as I've felt in a long while. I'm positive it's the additional yoga classes. The Sunday heated class at 4:30 is the perfect way to end the weekend/begin the week!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Indy, that's great to hear. Keep it up!
I'm not sure which is doing me more good- the fitness walking or the yoga, but together they are actually making a big difference in how I feel and little differences in how I look. I notice I'm standing and sitting straighter, my skirt waistbands and my bras are not quite as tight, I can now put my pants on one leg at a time while standing without leaning against the wall (that's a noticeable change, lol!), and I've lost a total of 4 pounds so far in 3 months. That's not a lot to lose, but hey it's going in the other direction from what it had been, with no special dieting on my part. Plus I must be building muscle for sure.

[Pax]

Hi Gals! I've missed you all a bunch; busy taking care of mom so very little computer time. Hope you're all doing well.

[indysteel]

Hi Gals! I've missed you all a bunch; busy taking care of mom so very little computer time. Hope you're all doing well.

Pax, we miss you, too (if I may speak for the group and I think I can on this count)! I hope that you, your mom and your Honey are all well. Check back in if and when you have time. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

[Catrin]

Pax - what Indy said. Have a very nice and stress-free Thanksgiving!

[Crankin]

I had an unexpected ride today; well, actually, I am still on the ride. My 2:30 client cancelled, so I went home so I could vote. I rode to the polling place, but it was too early to ride to my client who lives 5.5 miles fro my house. So I decided to do my short loop, since the kid lives right off of it. Right now I am sitting on a bench in front of Ferns in Carlisle; got about ten minutes to kill. I am wearing my new Assos winter jacket I got for half price. It's really snug, but warm. So warm, I need a lighter mid layer.
Well, I have my lights and my stuff for my session, plus I'll get close to a 20 mile ride.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Pax, good to see you pop in....I hope things are going smoothly with you and your loved ones.

Crankin- I have to hand it to you, ridin' in the cold!

Today my mate and i walked down into the village to have breakfast and then go vote. I was about 40F but very sunny, so perfect walking weather. Since we were out and about already, we extended our walk and did a brisk 4 miles altogether. Very pleasant way to get some exercise in today! Right now I'm bottling up the 42 pounds of beautiful pure golden honey i got from my bees this year- it came to about 4 gallons... woo-HOOO!

[indysteel]

Forty two pounds!!! That's awesome! Where do you sell it (assuming you sell it)?

[OakLeaf]

Pax - good to see you, hope you're hanging in there.

Crankin - I can barely drag myself out for a run before midday when there's frost on the ground!

Lisa - the 5.4 mile out-and-back WAS our walk to the polling place and back. :p It was a nice sunny day here too, and a nice walk, but a little darker than I'd have liked by the time we got back. At least I had hi-viz gear on, my DH wore his cloak of invisibility. :rolleyes: And yum, fresh honey. Mmmmmmmm.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Forty two pounds!!! That's awesome! Where do you sell it (assuming you sell it)?

I've kept bees for 3 yrs now and this is the first time I've gotten enough honey to even consider selling any. Last year we had just enough for ourselves and a few friends and family.
We probably go through 1.5 gallons per year at home (we're big tea w/honey drinkers), then I will give a couple 2 lb jars to each of our 3 children, several more jars to other family members. I also bought two dozen pretty little half pint jelly jars and filled them for xmas/birthday/hostess presents for the coming year. That actually may not leave me with all that many extra jars. I figure there may be some people who get the tiny jars from us as gifts and they may like it so much that they'll want to buy a larger jar from us, so I'll keep those extra jars on hand for that possibility. We'll have to see how this coming Spring shakes out, honey-wise. Always good to have a dozen or more jars stowed away for hard times! Especially since honey can't 'go bad'.

[Crankin]

The cold on the way home was kind of shocking, but by then it was dark and I needed my AmFib gloves. I had warm ones, but not warm enough.Could have used a balaclava (a light one), but I managed. I love riding in the dark. And the bad traffic was going in the other direction.

[Crankin]

I passed my boards!!!
The exam was easier than the simulations.
So relieved. I am now at home, drinking coffee and getting ready to do some *real* work.
Only a few more hoops to jump through, and these involve about eight more months of getting my supervision hours and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Hopefully, sometime in August I will be fully licensed. I am hoping it will be before I leave on my TRIP TO ITALY!!! Yes, after much soul searching, and after our friends told us they weren't ready to do a bike trip to Europe this summer, DH and I have planned a vacation that does not involve 250 miles of cycling and climbing category 3 climbs. We are renting a flat in Torino for a week. My DH's company has an office there, so he has been there several times, but hasn't seen too much. We will be taking trips to the Piedmont wine country, the Lakes District, and spending time with the person who runs the office there, and his wife. They are lovely people, who have been to our home. After Torino, we are going to Milan and spending 2 nights there, before flying home. We will probably ride around Torino on the city bikes for rent and may consider renting a road/hybrid bike, to do a one day trip somewhere.
But basically, this trip is going to be eating, culture, and wine. With a little riding and hiking thrown in.

[Catrin]

Crankin - Congratulations! I knew you would do it :)

The trip sounds fantastic and it sounds like a lot of fun!

[indysteel]

Congrats, Crankin!!! Have a wonderful trip! It sounds lovely.

[OakLeaf]

Congratulations Crankin! I had no doubt - but how great is it that you get your results right away.

The trip sounds fabulous.

[emily_in_nc]

Congrats, Crankin! I just knew it! :)

[Blueberry]

Congratulations, Crankin! You've earned it!!

[goldfinch]

Good news Crankin! Perfect time for a nice trip.

[Owlie]

Congratulations, Crankin! (And a trip to Italy? Nice!)

[malkin]

Good job Crankin!

And BleeckerSt---I'm working out whether I want bees next year or the year after or not. How did you get started?

[Pax]

Congratulations, Crankin!!

[Crankin]

Thanks, everyone. I kind of feel a let down; more free time, and I am procrastinating on some paper work I need to do! I lost a couple of clients in the past 2 weeks and I need to build up my case load again. Playing phone tag with people; ugh.

[Veronica]

Congratulations Crankin! And your trip to Italy sounds fabulous!

Veronica

[Crankin]

Thanks, Veronica. It was nice to go to the office yesterday and get congrats from my colleagues.

[indysteel]

Red, if you're reading this, how's your brother doing?

[redrhodie]

Red, if you're reading this, how's your brother doing?

Thanks for asking, Indy, he's doing well. He can't lift more than 5lbs until his follow up appointment, so that's been tricky. Luckily I'm just a few blocks away so I can help him. He seems to be adjusting to the low sodium diet. The rehab hasn't started yet, but we're going to take a walk today. He needs to start moving.

[malkin]

(((Red))) I missed your earlier post about this.

[Crankin]

That's good to hear, Red.

[indysteel]

Thanks for the update, Red. I'm glad he has you, in more ways than one. I hope he's able and willing to make the changes necessary for better health.

[Crankin]

I finally feel better from my stupid accident. The black eye is fading. Although the lump on my forehead is smaller, it's not receding as quickly as I'd like. But, it's partially under my bangs. I just feel better. I went to boot camp this morning, for the first time in 10 days, as I had skipped last Thursday, because it was icy out. No ill effects, and since I normally feel like I'm going to die, doing that stuff at 5:30 AM, I am good. Yesterday, I did a hilly 8 mile ride, to sort of test myself. I used my granny gear for the climbs and my computer is messed up, so I had no idea how fast or slow I was going.
I probably should not have ridden 33 miles on Sunday, as I felt like a truck hit me on Monday. I guess I forgot how much energy it takes for our bodies to recover.

[Crankin]

So excited!!! My DS is coming home from Afghanistan next week (he lives in Long Beach, CA) and will be coming to visit with his wife Dec. 18-23. I haven't seen him in a year and a half. Praying my DIL can control her moods, but I will try and give her a pass as she has to put up with him!

[emily_in_nc]

That's awesome news, Crankin!

[OakLeaf]

Yay Crankin! What a nice Thanksgiving gift.

Happy Thanksgiving to all my TE sisters. I'm seriously grateful to all of you.

[Catrin]

Very nice Crankin, that is great!

Seconding the Happy Thanksgiving to everyone here at TE. I am thankful to all of you and to TE for hosting this forum.

[redrhodie]

Happy Thanksgiving to all my TE sisters. I'm seriously grateful to all of you.

+1! Thank you all for everything!

[emily_in_nc]

Me too! Thanks for giving me something to aspire to as I dream of being back on my road bike. Reading of your adventures, bikes, and lives keeps me going while I can't be riding my Bike Friday on smooth roads and paths. Happy Thanksgiving all with gratitude!

[Crankin]

I seriously think of everyone here as my friend. Not like in Facebook friend, but real friend. I knew I was in trouble, when in the course of a conversation, I said that "I have a friend who lives in Belize."

[emily_in_nc]

Heheh, I resemble that remark! :cool:

I feel the same. And virtual friends can very easily become real-life friends when geography allows!

[Catrin]

I also feel the same way about the women here, and I've made face-to-face friends with several women from this forum. Crankin, I've made that same comment about a couple of women here, so you aren't the only one ;)

[OakLeaf]

What you all said. :) Considering how well DH and I knew each other before we ever met face to face ... and that actually we'd met f2f exactly twice before we decided to start dating :p ... I think these friendships are just as real as any.


Apropos of nothing here's someone who took a little rest in my backyard this afternoon. Hope he stays safe the next few weeks!

15795

[Crankin]

Maybe this should be under "other sports," but today, I went to a step and sculpt class for the first time since last winter. While the choreography wasn't hard and the cardio isn't an issue for me, I wonder how I'll feel when I get up at 4:50 tomorrow to go to boot camp. I sweated gallons and felt pretty tired at the end. I attribute it to there just being more people in the room than in the early AM, and the room being warmer.
Funny, how the "types" of people in these classes hasn't changed since I was an instructor in the late 80s-early 90s :). I amused myself by watching others so the suffering didn't get to me.
This is the first Wednesday I've had with no "emergency" commitments at work or studying in 3 weeks, and I actually was able to go to a class in the daytime and meet a friend for lunch.

[Owlie]

I hate writing personal statements/statements of purpose for grad school applications. I hate trying to write "I'm awesome; you should let me in" things. I'm terrible at selling myself. Bikes--sure. Science, no problem. But I keep trying to come up with reasons why I want to go to grad school and I can't get anything beyond "I want a PhD and a career in research." I have no idea what I actually want to do my research on, just a list of things I'd like to avoid, and I'd be happy doing almost anything that isn't on that list. The only things I can actually talk about in any degree of detail are my undergrad research project (and that's fuzzy just because of distance) and my master's thesis, nothing from which has been published yet so I need to keep it kind of vague. Aptitude for graduate study? I've been bashing my head against a wall with my project and I haven't quit yet?

This whole process is soul-sucking. And I haven't even gotten to the personal history statement.

[Crankin]

I was just up in my loft, stretching after a run and I happened to glance at one of the photos up on the bulletin board I have up there. It's a picture of my son and 3 others receiving the Principal's Award for community service in 2001. Guess who is standing next to him?
Evie Stevens.
I figured I would share this here, since no one else I know would appreciate it!

[Catrin]

It just dawned on me this morning that I've a goal for my 80th birthday - assuming I am around that long. I want to be that 80 year old woman who is still riding, lifting heavy things and setting them down again (even if I've got to scale the weight back by then), get out hiking, geocaching or whatever else happens to strike my fancy by then! Basically a earth-bound version of the old woman who goes sky-diving (I HATE heights).

[Crankin]

Me, too.
Sometimes I feel like the whole world is against us aging this way.

[Catrin]

Me, too.
Sometimes I feel like the whole world is against us aging this way.

I've said this to a few people recently, about my vision of me as an 80 year old. Outside of my trainer the other two looked at me like they think I am nuts. That is ok :) We have to get active and stay that way to carry it into our later years, and it is encouraging to me that there have been women who started much later than I. Age will come as long as life continues and it is up to us to decide how to face it. Granted, not all of that is for us to control, but we do have to decide how to face it. Accidents and/or genetics sometimes have their role to play but even then - our fitness level has some impact on how well we weather such things - or not. In the end however, it isn't about adding years to our lives, but "life to our years" (lifted from a motivational saying on Facebook). THAT is how I feel about my riding and other fitness activities. At some point it became fun and a part of me.

Ok, that is enough philosophy for the evening, time to read for a bit before bed.

[indysteel]

Sigh. I hate bathing suits. I appreciate that I can now try them on in the privacy of my own home (thanks, Athleta), but they rank up there with jeans in inducing self loathing. Why did I suggest Hawaii as our next big vacation. And, yes, I realize that I should not complain.....

[Dogmama]

I'm beyond excited. Going to a three day dog training seminar in San Fran next weekend. Learning things like chaining behaviors, introducing a puppy to a reactive dog household and strategic reinforcement delivery.

I've been teaching obedience at a local facility & the majority of my dogs are from shelters. They come in with all kinds of issues and sad stories. After six weeks, their tails are wagging, their eyes are bright and they have a new found confidence. I take no credit - it's the owners who work with them. But it's still incredibly rewarding (pun intended.)

BTW, I don't teach the jerk & puke method. We use food, toys and lots of praise. It takes longer but it's SO worth it.

[emily_in_nc]

Great job, Dogmama! I remember when you were looking for a job, and I am so happy that it's worked out so well for you.

Enjoy the seminar!

[indysteel]

Great job, Dogmama! I remember when you were looking for a job, and I am so happy that it's worked out so well for you.

Enjoy the seminar!

+1 Dogmama. That's really cool!

[lph]

Way to go, Dogmama :-)

I just got called in for an interview for a job in the XC Skiing Association. It involves equal amounts of bureacratic nonsense and practical work, so I'm trying to figure out what on EARTH to wear... I think maybe a new pair of jeans and my dh's smart black wool jacket might be appropriate.

[malkin]

... equal amounts of bureacratic nonsense and practical work...

I bet they used different wording in the job announcement.

Good luck!!

[lph]

I bet they used different wording in the job announcement.


Yeah. I started trying to translate it, but figured that summed it up anyway.

Thanks! I haven't been to an interview where I wasn't the one hiring for a decade, so I'm somewhere between terrified and mildly amused.

[Crankin]

Am I the only one around here who could care less about the Patriot's game? Usually, DH and I go out to some restaurant that is really hard to get reservations at during play off games, but he's at his company yearly meeting, and everyone I know is watching the game, or at some party.
I guess I will use the time to do some work.

[Pax]

I don't care about sports at all, but my mom and dad used to bet a buck a week on a football game so I keep that alive for mom. I never know who I'm betting on or if they're any good, but it sure makes her happy. :D

[Owlie]

Am I the only one around here who could care less about the Patriot's game? Usually, DH and I go out to some restaurant that is really hard to get reservations at during play off games, but he's at his company yearly meeting, and everyone I know is watching the game, or at some party.
I guess I will use the time to do some work.

I felt that way about the Cavaliers when I was living in Cleveland. And if I ever hear LeBron James' name again, it will be 20 billion years too soon.

[Crankin]

I mildly follow the Red Sox, but it is NEVER the center of my social life. I was a huge fan as a young teen (went to a lot of games and sat in the bleachers). My interest has waned since I started doing my own sports like cycling, hiking, etc. I don't even know who half the new players are, now. Watching cycling is fun, because I can relate to it, but if I never watched a race on TV or on line again, it wouldn't be the end of the world. I abhor football, basketball, and especially hockey. Thankfully, even my "regular" friends aren't huge fans, but they do go to games and watch on TV some of the time.
My son has a new job where he is opening an office of a company based in SF. He told me that he immediately was sent to deal with a long time client here in the Boston area, as they need a "New Englander to deal with them." He told me he has to brush up on the local sports scene to converse with these people...

[Owlie]

I'll watch football if someone else has it on. I won't go out of my way to watch it. If I find out the Bengals are playing and I'm at my parents' place, I'll wander into the room and ask my dad if the Bengals are losing again, watch for five minutes and wander back out.

[OakLeaf]

He told me he has to brush up on the local sports scene to converse with these people...

My family never watched sports when I was growing up. Football wasn't a big deal in my schools (my second high school didn't even have a football team). My first husband had to explain the rules to me. When I hung out my shingle I did some appointed criminal defense work, and with that, there was a lot of waiting around in the courthouse for cases to be called. I needed to be able to make small talk with the other lawyers, so I learned what I could about football. I was as surprised as anyone that I actually like it! But yeah, Owlie, being a Bengals fan takes a special kind of devotion. :p

[skhill]

Around here it's University of Kentucky basketball that is all-encompassing. Men's, that is. I'm a big fan of the women's team, ranked #5 right now; the men, not so much. But when the men's team is playing, there's less traffic on the roads, businesses are less busy, etc. It's a good time to run errands! And on evenings like we had last spring when they were playing for the national championship, the city pretty much shuts down. It's also a sad fact that during the victory celebrations that ensue upon winning the championship, you can count on a very slow response time from the police if you want to get up to mischief anywhere but right around campus.

[Owlie]

I think we have a proto-spammer around here...

[snapdragen]

Possibly, but until the spam actually appears.....

[lph]

Way to go, Dogmama :-)

I just got called in for an interview for a job in the XC Skiing Association. It involves equal amounts of bureacratic nonsense and practical work, so I'm trying to figure out what on EARTH to wear... I think maybe a new pair of jeans and my dh's smart black wool jacket might be appropriate.

Yup. I wore a new pair of jeans (read: 3 hours of shopping hell on a sunny Saturday morning) and my dh's smart black wool jacket - and they worked. I just landed a second interview :D

I'm flabbergasted. I didn't think the first one went very well, I got nervous and started waffling and giving politician type answers just to have something to say.

I'm not 100% convinced I want the job because it would mean a lot more time away from home, but I gotta admit, I'd LOVE to be offered it...

[Crankin]

Congrats, LPH. Even if you turn it down, it will still feel good. And considering your free time when taking a job is very important to people like us, who actually value and use free time.

[Pax]

That is cool, lph. Always fun to be in the drivers seat!

[lph]

Oh. My. God.

I just got an offer. It's for a little less than I already make, and sounds unnegotiable. However they also offer one day working from home a week.

When I was asked to describe myself I should have added "undecisive" and "anxious". I should be through the roof with joy! Why am I just all wibbly and teary about leaving my wonderful colleagues, and worried about not being able to do the job properly...? I've asked for a years unpaid leave to try it out, but I have no idea if my boss will even recommend it, and if he doesn't it's really decision time.

aaaaaagh........................

But if I don't take it I will probably kick myself for years wondering why.

I HATE making big decisions!

[emily_in_nc]

I have definitely been there on those kinds of decisions. And I am terribly indecisive and always second-guess my decisions.

Ultimately, I usually follow my heart and gut. When I don't, I end up regretting it.

As my yoga instructor likes to say "listen inside".

Congratulations!

[Crankin]

Take the job.

[lph]

Yeah. I know I will. I'd be an idiot not to. But I wish I could be a bit happier about it, right now...

But I've been in the job I have now for 13 years. I have most of my friends there. I've been on climbing trips, skiing trips and dozens of bike rides with coworkers. I've lost several coworkers to cancer, and one to suicide. I've mourned with the one who recently lost his wife after three rough years of illness. I've seen friends meet, fall in love and marry, and of course I've been out shopping for gift after gift for the ones who have big birthdays or who are home with a troublesome pregnancy, or who have a baby. In many ways I'll be saying goodbye to a large portion of my life the way it is today. I guess it's just normal to feel pretty darn sad about it. I know I can keep in touch with some of them, but most of them I won't, and even the ones I'm closest to I will only meet once in a while, instead of every day.

I will get over it and see the bright side. Just a bit despondent right now. And a little shocked at how badly I'm responding to change.

[Crankin]

This is why I stopped being social friends with colleagues. Too much...
I don't think you're overreacting. This is a huge change and you will feel conflicted and sad.

[OakLeaf]

Congrats, lph.

You nailed it, you understand why you're sad. I think that's completely natural. I'm not surprised the sad feelings are overwhelming the happy ones right now, but you know that won't last. Be proud of yourself.

[emily_in_nc]

I totally understand. When I retired from my job in Aug. 2011, I had worked with some of my co-workers for over 20 years. Some were social friends as well as work friends. It was very hard to say goodbye. I have stayed in touch with a few, but not all. When we went back to NC for a visit this past August, we arranged to meet our best work friends for lunch, and it was great to catch up, but it's never quite the same as when people see each other day-in, day-out. You really do become like family, and I have almost always had a "best friend" at work -- someone I was really close to -- as well. These friendships tend to endure.

But nothing says it was easy. Tears were definitely shed. Still, I have never looked back and don't miss the workplace or job at all, just the people. Pretty much exactly what I expected.

[indysteel]

Congrats, lph! You should be proud!!!

I may have to leave my job when my boss retires, so while my departure--if it comes to that--won't be voluntary--I totally get where you're coming from. Change, no matter what prompts it, is incredibly hard. But I tend to think that we're also much more adaptive than we often believe ourselves to be. Just remember that you do will not adapt overnight, so be kind and patient with yourself during that process.

[lph]

Thank you everyone. It's been a tearful evening, but I know it won't last. And I am proud, very proud. But even if the positives outweigh the negatives, the negatives don't go away or become less negative. And my first reaction was obviously to deal with them...
People and personal relationships do matter, a lot.

[indysteel]

Why do I feel such hostility when my alma mater (for both undergrad and law school) calls to ask for money? I loved my undergraduate years and perhaps if I'd just stopped there, I might give, but law school sort of ruined it for me. But beyond that, I'm sort of bitter about being asked to give to a school that does seemingly little to contain its costs. I guess I should, in the very least, consider an undergraduate scholarship fund, but at the end of the day, I get warmer fuzzies from giving elsewhere.

[Pax]

Indy - I got so tired of the way money was wasted by all the big charities I just stopped giving. Now it's all local, right down to the personal level... my sister in law's younger sister has cancer, so I send her money to help out with expenses. A friend from a motorcycling forum has a disabled daughter, I buy up fun stuff and send it along with some money to help out with her expenses. Local animal shelter needs supplies I buy a bunch and haul it over there. Just feels better to skip the "middle man".

[indysteel]

I mostly give to friends for their own charitable endeavors and to small and/or local NFPs. Girls, Inc. is probably the biggest exception to that at the moment, but I have a clear sense of where my money is going and I really like how they interact with their donors, at least locally. The only other one one my radar is a local chapter of a big organization for which I was once a board member. I'm torn about that one because my connection to their mission is a lot more tenuous now, but I'll probably still keep them on my list. I believe in what they do; but some of the frustrations I encountered as a board member have colored my desire to give. I don't know how fair that is because my frustrations had nothing to do with actual programming or how donations were spent.

[Wahine]

Indy - I got so tired of the way money was wasted by all the big charities I just stopped giving. Now it's all local, right down to the personal level... my sister in law's younger sister has cancer, so I send her money to help out with expenses. A friend from a motorcycling forum has a disabled daughter, I buy up fun stuff and send it along with some money to help out with her expenses. Local animal shelter needs supplies I buy a bunch and haul it over there. Just feels better to skip the "middle man".

This is exactly how I feel. I had someone ask me to donate to Run for the Cure. She's using it as motivation to get fit. So I told her I wouldn't donate any money but that I would give her some donated coaching time. It's all about keeping it local and real.

[lph]

I just got an offer. It's for a little less than I already make, and sounds unnegotiable. However they also offer one day working from home a week.
(...)
But if I don't take it I will probably kick myself for years wondering why.


Here's to kicking myself for years *cheers*

I didn't take it. The short reason is that I wasn't willing to give up that much of my free time right now. The long reason is more complicated and probably has more to do with resistance to change than I'm willing to admit... But I spent 4 days thinking it through and talking with many people, and for now this is the best decision I can make. I'm happy with that :)

[Crankin]

I took my job for the amount of "free time," too. I had the option of working 80% time, working fee for service, and setting my own schedule. I could have worked full time at a salaried job, and I might have shortened the time needed to get my full professional license, but I couldn't do it. Since I had never worked in the summer in my life, I was very worried about my perception of free time and being able to ride, etc. It was the right decision for me, although my Wednesdays are usually not free enough to do my group ride, unless it leaves from near my house and I don't go to the lunch. I can accept that for 6-8 more months... and then I am going to down to a 50-60% time job!!! Where I can, hopefully, commute.

[snapdragen]

Here's to kicking myself for years *cheers*

I didn't take it. The short reason is that I wasn't willing to give up that much of my free time right now. The long reason is more complicated and probably has more to do with resistance to change than I'm willing to admit... But I spent 4 days thinking it through and talking with many people, and for now this is the best decision I can make. I'm happy with that :)

It sounds like you made the right decision for yourself. :)

[indysteel]

It sounds like you made the right decision for yourself. :)

Ditto. It sounds like you put a lot of time and thought into your decision, lph.

[Crankin]

No, no, no... don't get really sick.
I have been dealing with a "full" head, a lot of throat clearing, and some sneezing for about 3 days. I am not really stuffed up and my throat isn't sore, just a lot of draining going on. I felt kind of achy yesterday, and today, once I got out of bed, that's better. Tummy is a bit off, but not enough to make me stop eating!
I've been super aggressive with hand washing and being outside a lot, as I firmly believe that the cold air helps keep you well. So yesterday was a rest day, and today I have the chance to go on a local hike with my cycling group. I have nothing else planned for the morning, but I am hesitating. We have a big storm coming Friday night, which means x country skiing this weekend and then on the 14th, I am going to VT. for 4 days.
I could go to the gym, but that would actually be more intense than the hike. Or, I could rest another day.

[emily_in_nc]

Or, I could rest another day.

I vote for resting -- sounds like your body is fighting a low-grade infection. Or, if you're feeling up to it, you might want to do a light-moderate workout. Good info on exercise intensity and the immune system:

http://www.empoweredathlete.com/articles.php?full=true&art=67

Feel better soon!

[Crankin]

I did exactly that. While I had a short burst of energy, I started feeling crappy again, and I had stuff I wanted to do. So I made my lamb meatballs, went to the store, and then took a short walk in the woods, up the steep climb. I probably walked 1.5 miles at the most, but it made me feel a lot better. I was good for my clients. Now, the aching is totally gone, and mostly I feel like I might lose my voice, a lot of throat clearing. My stomach's weird, a little, but I think the zinc tablets may have done this.
Debating whether to go to boot camp, and i have a feeling it will be a no.

[Catrin]

Hang in there Crankin, rest sounds like a good idea right now.

I will be skipping my special "Fight for Air Climb" training session tonight, my neck and shoulder is complaining more than I like this morning. I will, however, be hitting 12-15 floors of steps at some point today. Working my way up ;)

[Crankin]

Woke up a little worse today, but the sore throat is gone, even though I still feel like I'm going to lose my voice. I keep drinking tons of water, which is keeping that from happening, but it's a problem in my line of work, where I can't just get up and pee when I'm with a client! My stomach is definitely off, but this always happens when I have any respiratory thing. Taking Claritin and using nasal rinse and will asses at the end of the day if I am going to head to the Minute Clinic. One of the moms I work with has strep throat, so it's a possibility, even though I don't have any burning sore throat and all of that. I can cut my last person short and go there before I go home, maybe just to give me peace of mind before the blizzard sets in tomorrow. I will be resting until Sunday, when I have a date with the ski trails at Windblown up in NH.

[OakLeaf]

Ugh. Hope you feel better soon and the blizzard isn't too bad!

[Catrin]

Yikes Crankin, I just put your location together with the blizzard warnings I've been hearing about! Hope it isn't as bad as forecast, or it is at least moderated in your area! Hope you feel better soon.