my congresswoman was shot today

[Crankin]

I most certainly have policed myself in this discussion. Mostly, because I don't want to be seen as bashing someone with a different point of view. Still, I am looking wistfully back at the sixties and seventies, when I felt like I had the power of a lot of people behind my own beliefs and actions.
You have heard me mention my relatives who are super right wing conservatives. I actually highly respect my cousin, who is probably the most right wing of them, because he is intelligent, articulate, and lives his beliefs. I just can't go along with having guns in the house with 2 teenagers and a child, or him thinking he can take away my right to choose. I cannot, however, respect my aunt, who just parrots the views she hears on talk radio and the half understood ideas she gets from her children.
In the last month I happened to look at the comments below a couple of news articles on Yahoo. I could not believe the vehemence spewed in the comments (all from the right wing view point). I won't look at that stuff anymore, but it made me glad to be in my bluest of blue state bubble. Frankly, we saw the writing on the wall in 1990, with regard to politics in AZ, and it played a significant role in our decision to move. I gave up a very nice life that took me years to recover, so I could bring my kids up in the same atmosphere I grew up in.

[KnottedYet]

One of the weirdest things I came across in the news articles is that someone already checked Daniel Hernandez Jr.'s immigration status. (He's a naturalized US citizen from Mexico)

Obviously the young man is Latino, but was it really necessary to run his immigration papers? Did someone have the thought, "I wonder if Gabrielle Giffords hired an illegal immigrant for her intern?"

[maillotpois]

This is, I think, one of the best discussions of the event: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...n?xrs=share_fb

Did the toxic political environment cause this...? I have no f-ing idea. We live in a complex ecosystem of influences and motivations and I wouldn't blame our political rhetoric any more than I would blame heavy metal music for Columbine. And, by the way, that is coming from someone that truly hates our political environment. It is toxic. It is unproductive. But to say that is what has caused this, or that the people in that are responsible for this I just don't think you can do.

Boy would it be nice to be able to draw a straight line of causation from this horror to something tangible because then we can convince ourselves that if we just stop this the horrors will end. To have the feeling, however fleeting, that this type of event can be prevented forever. But it's hard not to feel like it can't.

You cannot outsmart crazy. You don't know what a troubled mind will get caught on.

He goes on to encourage growth and more positive discourse, and the overall message was quite moving.

[snapdragen]

I thought this was a very civilized discussion. Were some posts removed?

Nope, none that I'm aware of.

[snapdragen]

This is, I think, one of the best discussions of the event: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...n?xrs=share_fb





He goes on to encourage growth and more positive discourse, and the overall message was quite moving.

The Jon Stewart commentary was awesome.

[Veronica]

I really like Jon Stewart. His very real outrage at the inability to get legislation passed to benefit 9/11 responders was so genuine.

And that's the kind of crap that frustrates me with the right. I am very lucky to be in one of those higher income brackets. (No kids and I married a smart man ) Although at the time he was a lance corporal in the Marines.

Why do we need tax breaks? Is there something I'm missing?

Maybe I feel this way because we didn't always have money. The welfare my mother received enabled me to become the person I am today. Maybe people who have always had money, don't "get it."

Veronica

[badgercat]

More coverage of last night's bike vigil, including photos, and the video I posted last night: http://tucsonvelo.com/news/sights-an...g-victims/5372

As someone who lives in Tucson, I can say that us average folks aren't overanalyzing the situation re: whether rhetoric did or didn't contribute, etc. The guy had real problems, and as Jon Stewart said in the monologue that's been referenced in the last few posts, you can't always outsmart crazy. We're looking for ways to heal and move on. And so far, two posts I've made about just that (about visiting the memorial at her office the other day, and the bike vigil last night) have been all but ignored because folks are wrapped up in the discussion on politics (or are discussing how they weren't actually arguing about politics, or whatever). Just sayin'... let's try to move on and look at the good things that are happening here now.

[maillotpois]

Why do we need tax breaks? Is there something I'm missing?

Maybe I feel this way because we didn't always have money. The welfare my mother received enabled me to become the person I am today. Maybe people who have always had money, don't "get it."

Veronica

This is a drift, but I agree - and I don't necessarily think it's just because of your background that you feel that way. I was solid middle class my whole life and I feel the same way.

[PamNY]

And so far, two posts I've made about just that (about visiting the memorial at her office the other day, and the bike vigil last night) have been all but ignored because folks are wrapped up in the discussion on politics (or are discussing how they weren't actually arguing about politics, or whatever). Just sayin'... let's try to move on and look at the good things that are happening here now.

The photos are very moving, and I have paid careful attention to your posts, even though I didn't respond. I do appreciate having some knowledge of what's going on locally.

I'm glad to hear that positive and visible things are happening in your area. The smallest things helped me so much after 9/11; the Red Cross put children's drawing on the barricades near my building. I wish I knew the child who wrote "I wish this didn't happen." He or she pretty much summed it up.

[Crankin]

BagerCat, from what I can see, Tucson is handling the situation admirably. And I think the mental health issues are the ones that need discussing more than anything else.
Yes, this is a bit off topic. V, it's true that a lot of people, if they've never been without, don't understand what it feels like to be disenfranchised. But, it's easy to generalize about this, like anything else. I grew up solidly upper middle class, and I am just really grateful for the values my parents instilled in me. Then, when the shoe industry left New England, my family's money went with it. Thankfully, my grandparents pitched in, and I was not far from being out on my own. But, my poor brother, who is 11 years younger was sorely affected by the change in status.
Tax breaks? I don't ever think about that. DH and I have worked for whatever we have and if people have an issue with that, so be it. But, I still have the same values I had when I was young and struggling.

[bcipam]

First just know, I regularly participate in a number of "politics and religion" forums... this isn't even close to being heated, just trust me on that. I generally don't come to TE for political chat but this discussion is interesting...

From someone who thinks most politicians are crooks and barely have their own families interests at heart when they do and say anything; and that most political talk show hosts are hacks and barely entertainers... When we start talking about policing speech... what people do and say... then we get into First Amendment rights and constitutional guarantees. Our government already polices too much; I loath to think they would also police "free speech".

That said, yes we as citizens can take action and 1) stop not only listening to the Limbaughs, or Hannitys, or Maher or whoever, but we must also stop repeating what they say... even if it comes from a third source. Every time I heard someone say "But Rush Limbaugh said this nasty thing or the other..." I ask, why did you listen in the first place? Why would you bother to repeat what the man says and giving him credit?

Second, we citizens can stop putting people into office who don't have a public interest at heart. How that is done, don't know. This last election in California, every incumbent was returned to office. Not a one of them is worth a cup of coffee but there you go; most voters are uninformed or detached from the process.

Lastly, and I am off the soap box, we need to be our brother's keepers in many more ways than just feeling sorry for them. If someone acts inappropiately we need to be able to take action. Of course, government has stepped in and provided many protections to these folks so taking action is difficult. But at least step up, call the police and report unusual behavior. At least, after something bad happens, they have somewhere to start their investigation.

Again society is breaking down so these types of instances will occur more and more frequently. I for one, don't want to get use to it but want to take a stand and try and stop it. Every little part helps!

Tucson is a great place and its citizens are full of grace and compassion... a lesson we can all take back with us.

[Biciclista]

Every time i heard someone say "But Rush Limbaugh said this nasty thing or the other..." I ask, why did you listen in the first place? Why would you bother to repeat what the man says and giving him credit?

Second, we citizens can stop putting people into office who don't have a public interest at heart. How that is done, don't know. This last election in California, every incumbent was returned to office. Not a one of them is worth a cup of coffee but there you go; most voters are uninformed or detached from the process.

Pam yes, for sure people SHOULDN't repeat what these guys say. but they do and will continue to.

The second part: I think a lot of people start out in politics with the best possible motives. But power corrupts ultimately. That money is SOOO hard to resist....
Every one of them is on the Lobbiest dole... They certainly didn't all start out as crooks..

[bcipam]

Pam yes, for sure people SHOULDN't repeat what these guys say. but they do and will continue to.

The second part: I think a lot of people start out in politics with the best possible motives. But power corrupts ultimately. That money is SOOO hard to resist....
Every one of them is on the Lobbiest dole... They certainly didn't all start out as crooks..

All true unfortunately... If I were in control of the world (bru-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!)... I would make it so that our legislators worked in a controlled environment and that lobbying was a violation of federal law (how is it not payola?????) subject to execution if caught; but that's in my own little fantasy world. Money (and power) truly corrupts absolutely!

People do and say alot of things they should not. I don't have to give them any notice or credit. Next time someone says "Did you hear the crap Limbaugh said???" Say "no I don't waste my time; why should you?"

[azfiddle]

I attended the memorial service this evening in Tucson. I did not arrive early enough to get inside, but even from the overflow in the football stadium with about 15,000 others, the memorial event was moving and inspirational.

Parked my car about 1/2 mile away and biked to the event, but didn't get the hoped for quick get away as we had to cross a main road and it was blocked off for the various official vehicles to use.


Best parts of the evening: recognition of the 20 year student intern whose actions helped save Giffords life, the news that she had opened her eyes for the first time, the very even, non-partisan tone in all the speeches and the calming and inspirational words of President Obama.


Thanks again to all for your thoughts and comments.

[Trek420]

Thanks Azfiddle and your bike for representing us. I am keeping your community in my heart, thoughts and prayers.