my congresswoman was shot today

[PamNY]

Azfiddle, I'm glad it was an affirmative experience for you and presumably, for others.

I hope the coming days bring peace and healing for your community and those affected by this tragedy.

[crazycanuck]

As an outsider, i'm going to probably be thwacked for this but....

I have to say...isn't it the "we must have a gun because it's in the consititution" type culture in the US that's to blame?

[lph]

While I personally am strongly against private gun ownership, I don't think one can put the blame on a single element.

I like Knot's take on it - we all bear responsibility for the world we are living in, by our actions or by our passivity. We're all both the good guys and the bad guys.

[OakLeaf]

My take...

Loughner used his second amendment right exactly as responsibly as a lot of people have been using their first amendment rights.

Both are important political rights. Both have the potential to do great harm.

I could go on about the lack of civic education and what I think has CAUSED the irresponsibility, but I'll stop there. I too agree with Knott.

[azfiddle]

Though my first response to the shooting, like many others, was to attribute a political motivation to the shooter... both information and reflection have caused me to focus on working to for positive change.

Gabrielle Giffords' husband has suggested donations to the Red Cross or Community Food bank as a way of expressing your support or feelings.

[channlluv]

...Loughner used his second amendment right exactly as responsibly as a lot of people have been using their first amendment rights.

Wow. That's excellent. I'm going to be quoting you today.

azfiddle, thanks so much for sharing the bike vigil link. What a moving experience that must have been. Even second hand, I got a little teary.

I'm amazed that the young man who saved Giffords' life is only 20 years old. Has he been trained in emergency medicine, or was all of that just instinctive? He ran TOWARD gunfire. Who's going to do that? I'm pretty sure I would have been diving behind the nearest column or car.

Roxy

[OakLeaf]

More on her progress, for those who haven't seen it.

Have your tissues ready.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...an-schultz-abo

[Desert Tortoise]

Channlluv, he has some emergency response training. In interviews he talked about how he stayed with Giffords until the paramedics arrived and then moved out of the way to let them do their jobs. But, he would not leave her alone and stayed with her, talking to her and she squeezing his hand in response.

Hopefully you'll get to see some of his interviews with the media. Normally I'm not a big fan of this stuff but this young 20 year old is articulate and thoughtful. If I didn't know how young he is, I would have sworn this was a mature and experienced man.

And he just started his internship with Giffords 5 days before Saturday. Does Giffords know how to pick them or what?!

[hebe]

This article has been on my mind very much these last few days. It's a very simple profile of those who lost their lives in this senseless attack. My thoughts remain with the families and communities affected.

[Trek420]

More on her progress, for those who haven't seen it.

Have your tissues ready.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-...an-schultz-abo

Thanks for the warning Very moving.

[KnottedYet]

I am profoundly moved that the National 9/11 Flag Quilt was at Christina Green's funeral. As one commentator said, she was born on one day of national mourning and died on another. http://edition.cnn.com/2011/US/01/13...morial/?hpt=C2

I am also deeply grateful that so many people organized to help protect the little girl's funeral from the Baptists who publicized their plans to protest and demonstrate in front of it. And grateful to Ms. Brewer, who passed emergency legislation to protect the funerals of the other victims from the Baptists.

[tzvia]

As an outsider, i'm going to probably be thwacked for this but....

I have to say...isn't it the "we must have a gun because it's in the consititution" type culture in the US that's to blame?

As a gun owner, (and yes I own a 9mm and 20 and 30 round magazines), I would say no. Please remember, that Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people with fertilizer. What a killer uses is just a tool. The user determines purpose, good or bad. What it looks like here is a case of an adult (he is 22) deciding not to get mental medical aid, not to take meds, but instead to take illegal drugs. He then reads some info about the evil of our monetary society, and blends it in his ill mind with his anti-Semitic delusions. He gets kicked out of community college as they fear he is a danger, but it does not appear they followed it up with the authorities as there was no record of this when he went to buy a gun last November as it did not show up on his NICS background check. He continues to take drugs and not see a doctor. Finally, he pops. That anyone would blame the gun is just missing what is going on.

Guns are used far more often in the U.S. to prevent crime than cause it. I have had to grab a gun in defense once, when several people dressed in black tried to come up the side of the house and get into my back yard at 1am. Thankfully, they saw it and gave some lame-o excuse and beat it quick.

Our neighbor to the south, Mexico, is dealing with drug lords running amok and the death toll there last year was 15,273 (not including crimes of passion). This is higher than the war in Afghanistan in the same time period. The citizens don't have the right to arms, and are dying like cattle; no ability to defend themselves. The drug cartels have lots of guns; they don't care about silly laws that say they can't have them. Here in the U.S. we can choose to defend ourselves. We have 3 times the population, and the right to arms, but our death toll annually is about 17,000 by comparison. I say we don't have Mexico's problem partially due to our law abiding gun owners.

Sorry for the long ramble, I'm off my soapbox now.

What happened is appalling. My heart goes out to all who are affected by this horrible tragedy. It's our mental health support that failed on several levels, but it's not going to be easy to fix. As an adult, he could refuse treatment and incarceration in an institution as he had not been found guilty of a crime before his rampage. So how does one balance our freedom against forcing someone into treatment against their will?

[lunacycles]

Guns are used far more often in the U.S. to prevent crime than cause it.

I'd honestly be interested in seeing facts or documentation to support this statement.

[Eden]

Guns are used far more often in the U.S. to prevent crime than cause it.

ummmm I'm opening myself up to a lot of flaming here but that is not true...... owning a gun makes you 3 times more likely than a non gun owner to die from gun violence...

Guns are actually pretty rarely used for self defense. Firearms are actually only used for self defense in .2% of crimes and that isn't necessarily *successfully*... Meanwhile 66% of homicides and 8% of violent rapes involve firearms. If you are determined to use a gun to prevent a crime you have to be mentally and physically prepared to kill another human being.

I'll admit - I am a ardently for gun control and there will never be one in my house.

[Trek420]

I have a healthy respect for aka fear of guns, would never have one in my home, nor knowingly be in a home with a gun. And yet I agree with your right to arm bears but I also feel that right ends where my right to be safe begins. It's complex and hard to balance too.

I train in Aikido, I'm a nidan. I've had to "use it" a few times. Once in an attempted rape, got out of the chokehold, pinned him, held him down till help arrived, another time another stranger threw a football block at me to drill my head into the pavement, I did a back roll and came up in a fighting stance. This was not what he expected to happen. He ran away yelling "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm ....", then on a night train a guy robbed our compartment, found him on the train, put the dude in a chokehold, retrieved our luggage, threw him off the (very slowly moving at the time) train.

It's also come in handy taking a fall off the bike.

I never ever ever ever ever want to "use it" again. Aikido is something I will always do although I'm taking a break right now. If tomorrow I wake to a world with no need for self defense I'll still want to train. I do it for the love of the art, and because every so often I get a technique right. It's a joy.

I'm sure there may be gun owners who feel the same about marksmanship, skill, expertise.

But I entirely agree with this:

What happened is appalling. My heart goes out to all who are affected by this horrible tragedy. It's our mental health support that failed on several levels, but it's not going to be easy to fix.

We have failed as a country with mental health. We have to remove the stigma of needing, seeking, using, wanting care. If you knew someone needed care for a medical condition you would not hesitate to recommend they see a doctor. The same should be true of mental health. I'm not blaming the school in any way but instead of "go away till you can prove you are sane" it should have been "here's our clinic, GO!"