my congresswoman was shot today

[PamNY]

Yes, I always notice the term "disenfranchised."

Women didn't have the right to vote when my grandmother was born, and they hadn't had it very long when my mother was born.

[bcipam]

Funny... I started to do what Oxysback did... go out and find posts by liberals to prove a point... but then realize the point is... doesn't matter what politicians or entertainers have to say... crazy is crazy. It's no one elses fault what happened but the crazy person himself. When we all start to blame others, we take away responsibility from the person that is at fault. We can say "he had a poor childhood and his mother was abusive"... or "he was bullied by others" or "he listened to Rush Limbaugh" or watched some movie too many times or listened to some heavy metal song or ate too many twinkies... but fact is, he was crazy.

I predict more and more these tragedies are going to happen as society continues to break down for one reason or another (I can write a book about that!). We all need to be our brother's keepers... it's one thing to feel for and have compassion for crazy folks, it's another thing not to act and do something before people get hurt.

Next time I see someone acting and saying something crazy, I don't care, I'm going to call the police about it. Not that the police care, or will act but maybe eventually the person will be on someone's radar.

Tragic event. Sad all around. My prayers are with and for the survivors and the families of those killed.

[azfiddle]

I was hoping that this tragedy might have become an opportunity to promote dialogue between the political parties, and dial back the rhetoric and draw a clearer distinction between broadcast news and opinion. That hope was short-lived as I read the transcripts from various media hosts....Perhaps the members of Congress will be less combative and a little less entrenched in their positions after this, for a while anyway.

Personally, I am still deeply saddened by these events and looking for ways to channel my feelings into a constructive direction. I hope to attend the memorial at the University of Arizona tomorrow.

Here is a quote by Gabrielle Giffords herself, though I don't know the original context of the remarks:

"We know that silence equals consent when atrocities are committed against innocent men, women and children. We know that indifference equals complicity when bigotry, hatred and ignorance are allowed to take root. And we know that education and hope are the most effective way to combat ignorance and despair".

[OakLeaf]

More good news on her progress.

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-he-...,1099108.story

[lunacycles]

Thanks for your words, azfiddle. I am amazed and impressed TE moderators have allowed 5+ pages of this to continue, and that is probably due to the restraint most have shown, even if it has gotten "political" here and there.

No one deserves to be the recipient of violence, regardless of their beliefs. I do believe the politically-tainted, violence-promoting rhetoric washing over this country the last few years especially--regardless of whether those promoting it "mean it"-- has had the potential to affect those who are lonely, confused, and vulnerable to it, and this can have catastrophic effects, and I personally believe that is what occurred this last weekend in Tucson.

Personally, I am so tired of finger-pointing or needing to have some stance, but I do wish for a more compassionate society (perhaps naive!) as a result of this, and I thank Gabby Giffords (about whom I knew little til 3 days ago) for her good work before this event, and I honestly have been holding in my heart a wish for her complete recovery (or something close to it) so that she can have the opportunity engage in conversation with those who mindlessly "targeted" her, and therefore allow the deeper healing to happen.

[KnottedYet]

I remember reading about this extremely liberal dude, so liberal that everyone was scandalized and couldn't stop talking about him.

He treated everyone as if they were all equally valuable, treated rich people exactly the same as he treated poor people. He thought women were equal to men. The rich and powerful thought he was an awfully rude and dangerous wild card, going against the flow and breaking social rules and crossing class boundaries, convincing their daughters and sons to leave home and join his commune. The ruling class was in an uproar, he really managed to p*ss them off.

He did crazy stuff, like hang out with people who had horrible disgusting communicable diseases, right up there with AIDS. He even ate meals with them! He would touch them without gloves on!

He thought everyone deserved health care, even the people on the other side of the political divide, and he made sure he did what he could to see that they got it. The people in his commune thought he was crazy for helping the "wrong sort" of folks, but he did it anyway. He told them to watch and learn and give a d@mn.

He told the people that it was their duty to care for the poor, the ill, the elderly and alone. He said it was everyone's duty. Even if you didn't like those needy people, even if they smelled bad or dressed funny or ate weird food. And you shouldn't expect to be paid.

He kept saying that if anyone fell through the cracks, then everyone fell through the cracks, including himself.

His name was Rabbi Yeshua ben Yusef.

Now, Jared Loughner fell through the cracks. And he landed in a nightmare of people shouting hatred at each other and using guns as metaphors for solutions to the hatred. He needed a solution to his nightmare and he got a gun, and we know the rest.

The good Rabbi is probably one of the few people with enough love to handle sitting with Jared right now. But we really let the Rabbi down by creating a society where a child could fall through the cracks and grow up to be a nightmare-man.

"Whatever you didn't do for the least of these, you didn't do for me."

[Biciclista]

wow, Knot, you are on a roll. Yes, exactly, I agree. Where is that man in current popular "Christian" thought?

Luna, I got too political and upset and Oxysback had to remind me that either side can point to nastiness in the other side.

But I have read the words of Gabrielle Giffords and it breaks my heart that one of the things she cared about the most was "toning it down" and trying to find common ground and civil discourse with other politicians in her own community. She didn't like that rifle sight map pointing at her. I wouldn't like it either!

I am glad she is doing so good. It also breaks my heart that so many other people are dead or seriously wounded partially because in our society it is incredibly easy to hurt people (with words or legal weapons of mass destruction) and it is so hard to put them back together unless they are very lucky and have good health insurance. ( a 12 year old came up with that observation, I can't claim it for myself.)

[Deborajen]

I appreciate what you're trying to say, Knotted. The shoot-everyone-you-don't-agree-with metaphors aren't funny. We all love a little good slapstick comedy but this is just too much. And I don't have any use for all of this hateful talk radio, etc, either - not from either political side.

But blaming that for what this guy did isn't realistic. He has 22 years worth of potential bad influence on him, and who knows what it was, not to mention he might just be mentally ill and can't be helped.

Azfiddle, this whole tragedy has put some of Ms. Giffords' kindhearted wisdom on the national scene as everyone wants to know more about her. In that sense, at least something good has come out of this.

[KnottedYet]

I appreciate what you're trying to say, Knotted. The shoot-everyone-you-don't-agree-with metaphors aren't funny. We all love a little good slapstick comedy but this is just too much. And I don't have any use for all of this hateful talk radio, etc, either - not from either political side.

But blaming that for what this guy did isn't realistic. He has 22 years worth of potential bad influence on him, and who knows what it was, not to mention he might just be mentally ill and can't be helped.

Maybe you should re-read my post:

But we really let the Rabbi down by creating a society where a child could fall through the cracks and grow up to be a nightmare-man.

"Whatever you didn't do for the least of these, you didn't do for me."

I didn't blame the rhetoric. I blamed YOU.

Shocking, isn't it, when we realize we all have our part to play. Did we write to our politicians telling them to tone it down? Did we call the police when we heard the neighbor beating his wife for the millionth time? Did we alert Human Services when the boy next door was wandering from house to house looking for a place to stay, because his mom was passed out drunk again? Did we donate to the food bank, even though we really wanted that XBox for Christmas instead? Did we step in when a co-worker was telling off-color jokes, and ask her to stop? Did we hand a "211" meal card and bus voucher to the homeless man begging on the street corner? Did we help the woman struggling with 4 kids at the grocery store? Did we wait patiently when the car in front of us stalled?

It all contributes to the world we live in. Everything that comes out of you adds to the stew we're all swimming in. Is it a healthy, hearty, nourishing stew? Or is it sewage? Are people drowning in it? Will you turn your back, or lend a hand?

WWRYbYD?

[snapdragen]

thanks for your words, azfiddle. I am amazed and impressed te moderators have allowed 5+ pages of this to continue, and that is probably due to the restraint most have shown, even if it has gotten "political" here and there.

...

[Trek420]

...

Thanks! Thanks Jeff, thanks Susan. This is the best place in cyberspace.

It's been quite the new year. Those in the Bay Area may have heard of the young man who was shot while putting his sister in her car seat. His mother threw herself on him to protect him. It was too late.

The young man is the godson of my coworker/podmate There are too d@mn many people dying especially getting shot.

As cyclists we all may experience the escalation of tempers as a car revs behind us or races to cut us off. I just think people everywhere need to calm down and take care of each other because we are all in this tiny blue boat together.

[Bike Writer]

I refrain from jumping into the political fray out of respect for the dead and wounded in this tragedy, speaking only for myself I would feel like I was cheapening what they suffered. Their senseless deaths and injury deserve acknowledgment that evil exists - always has and always will - but what we must do is ensure that the person who committed this, when found guilty, is never given the opportunity to harm anyone else.

An observation of the discourse that has occurred here is that we are holding politicians on either side of the aisle to a higher standard that we are holding ourselves to. A breakdown in our "mini society" of this forum occurred quicker than a NY minute, tongues lashing, fangs barred, jabs were traded at lightening pace and yet we accuse the politicians, the news media (both the old guard and the new guard), society, talk TV, talk radio, movies, books, music or what have you of creating some kind of societal morass.

Reality shows that it's human nature to do these things. This world is a broken place and it didn’t start last month or 200 years ago, it happened near the beginning. Lest anyone thing that these comments are somehow self-righteous, know this – I am first among sinners.

Now watch the thread get shut down.

[badgercat]

Tonight, a bike vigil started on the U of A campus and processed to the medical center where Giffords and other victims remain hospitalized, to visit the candlelight memorial. An estimated 150 cyclists attended. I was unfortunately unable to go since I had to work, but my boyfriend was there, and said it was pretty amazing. A local cycling blogger we follow has already put out a video from tonight's event:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRxO2nKPlgE

[PamNY]

An observation of the discourse that has occurred here is that we are holding politicians on either side of the aisle to a higher standard that we are holding ourselves to. A breakdown in our "mini society" of this forum occurred quicker than a NY minute, tongues lashing, fangs barred, jabs were traded at lightening pace and yet we accuse the politicians, the news media (both the old guard and the new guard), society, talk TV, talk radio, movies, books, music or what have you of creating some kind of societal morass.

I thought this was a very civilized discussion. Were some posts removed?

[KnottedYet]

A breakdown in our "mini society" of this forum occurred quicker than a NY minute, tongues lashing, fangs barred, jabs were traded at lightening pace

????

I also think this has been a very civilized discussion.

People have policed themselves.

People have apologized for things said in the heat of the moment.

People have taken each others points into consideration, and written further on each other's points.

An observation of the discourse that has occurred here is that we are holding politicians on either side of the aisle to a higher standard that we are holding ourselves to.

You bet yer sweet bippy we hold them to a higher standard! If they want to be leaders, then they must LEAD. They MUST set a higher standard. That's the point to being a leader!

(First I was in despair because it appears no-one studies theology anymore. How about ethics? Philosophy? Political science? Are our finest minds just marinating in set-plot romance novels these days? {not that I'm disparaging folks who write or read romance novels, I know several fine authors who've had to write romance novels during lean times, and one can be surprisingly creative and subversive within the strict plot outlines the publishers give you! There has been food on my table because of those cheap little books.})