The Swine Flu Shot a Waste of Time!

[OakLeaf]

Maybe only 36,000 people die from the flu each year (in the US)... but I'm sure that if you are one of the loved ones of one of those people the fact that its not that many people doesn't really interest you...

And if a few years down the road 100,000 people get Alzheimer's, or heart disease (just to mention two conditions known to be connected to inflammation)? It's remote in time, nobody has done long-term studies, so no one is interested in those people.

If it was certain there was no risk to immunizations, that would be a whole 'nother story. But it's not. When the risk of complications is high - whether it's human polio or canine parvo - that's a whole 'nother story too. But with the seasonal flu, it's not.

[Eden]

I CANNOT get the vaccine, so there's no point in me doing anything different except be mindful of my sanitary practices.

That's very true... unfortunately flu spreads not only by contact with surfaces, but through droplets in the air, so you can have the best hygiene in the world and still get /spread flu, but staying out of contact with everyone just because of risk is not reasonable (unless of course there is a widespread outbreak... then staying away from other people may be in your best interest).

If you can't get the vaccine that's not your fault. I'm not going to admonish people for things that are beyond their control, but I would like everyone to think carefully about the decision, even if that decision in the end is to not get the vaccine. I do think there are reasons to not do it, but I also think that a lot of people make a snap decision before really thinking it through or make a decision based on dubious information. I haven't had either seasonal or H1N1 yet because of the shortages. There are definitely priority lists and I am not either high risk myself, nor do I work with the most compromised patients. I will get the vaccine as soon as it is available to me.

[itself]

I also have adult onset asthma and choose not to get the vaccine. However, I got an ELISA blood test and as with most people, it was food allergies/intolerances. Traditional doctors would rather give pills and inhalers to asthmatics rather than look at the root. I was a horrible asthmatic until I pulled many food groups out of my diet. Now, no pills.

Yes, as far as getting the flu "once a year" I generally get a 24 hour bug. This swine flu is clearly hitting very young people which is really weird, as flus typically attack the elderly.

They say that 30-40% of people here in AZ will get the swine flu. That is pretty scarey, but not enough for me to get the vaccine.

Lisa

[OakLeaf]

A 24-hour bug is not the flu.

If you had the flu, you'd know it.

People of all ages get the flu. It's simply that the rate of complications is higher among people who are in poor health generally, which elderly people disproportionately are. Same with all infectious diseases.

Here's a little something from this week's NEJM. Not related to the flu, but ought to scare the cr*p out of anyone who takes anything that's FDA-approved.

[indigoiis]

So then, what sorts of things can one do to keep from getting sick besides washing hands and not sharing utensils or contact?
Any sort of natural preventative? Up the vitamin C? Fresh air and sunshine?
I'd rather my daughter not have the immunization. I've got a few weeks before her school gets their supply to do research and really do feel torn.

[OakLeaf]

My take, I don't think there's any magic bullet.

Being religious about hand-washing and hand sanitizer, not touching any public surfaces with my bare hands if I can help it, and not touching my eyes or nose (which pretty much goes by the wayside on the bike, see the thread about vasomotor rhinitis ).

Sunshine and fresh air. (Vitamin D and staying out of environments where the virus replicates easily, for those who believe that if the Mayo Clinic can't explain something, it can't be true. But my personal opinion is that it would be surprising if there weren't more factors at work there.)

Think really hard about signing up for any races until after the flu season peaks. Light exertion is good, the sustained hard efforts required for training suppress the immune system. This is probably the toughest one for most people here.

On the "it can't hurt" front, I've started taking elderberry extract. I actually started it after I caught my second cold this fall (training for two big events ), and the cold vanished almost immediately. Now... that's just as likely because it was only a slight mutation from the first cold I had and my immune system was already on top of it... but as I said, it can't hurt, and it's possible it was why I got over the cold so quickly.

Plenty of fluids and foam roller work. I don't really have any idea of how the fascia and the immune system are connected, but I know they are connected, and anyway, it's good for me on a strictly physical level (in the sense of "physical medicine" physical).


(And, as I said before, if it had been completely up to me, I'd have got the H1N1 vaccine and skipped the seasonal flu shot.)

[sfa]

My son was hospitalized three weeks ago with the flu, and is still fighting the pneumonia that he got as a result of the flu.

He has a primary immune deficiency disorder and can't get vaccines (well, he could but they wouldn't do a damn thing for him since he can't produce IgG, and the live virus vaccines are dangerous for him), so for him, we rely on other people getting vaccinated to keep him healthy since avoidance is the only way he stays healthy. This isn't just about flu--he also doesn't have immunity to measles or whooping cough or chicken pox or any of those other things that might be a PITA to someone else who chooses not to get vaccinated and instead gets the disease, but for him they could easily be fatal. He does get gammaglobulin every four weeks to give him a temporary immune system, so for the most part we don't worry, but new viruses aren't yet in the gammaglobulin so they are extraordinarily dangerous to him. What he had three weeks ago was just the seasonal flu (or so we're assuming since the rest of us stayed healthy and had already received the seasonal flu vaccine).

We haven't been able to get the swine flu vaccine yet, and I know the virus is going around in our area, so I'm really worried about him. He's in every risk category for getting the worst of this virus (age, underlying condition, neurological disorder), and he's already so weak from this last disease that getting something else could kill him quickly. I'm not being melodramatic about this--this is just how it is. I'm very bothered by people who think that since they aren't high risk then they don't need the vaccine. I don't get vaccines to keep ME healthy (although that's a nice benefit)--I get vaccinated to keep OTHER people healthy, people who for one reason or another can't get vaccinated. These people are everywhere. It's not just rare cases like my son, but cancer patients and infants and people allergic to eggs. I don't want to go to the grocery store not knowing that I'm contagious with something and then accidentally pass it on to the leukemia patient picking over the apples with me before I have the first symptoms and I end up sick for a few days and she ends up dead because I didn't think the vaccine was necessary for me. That's not something I want to live with. If I can help keep other people healthy through this one small thing, I will.

Sarah

[salsabike]

SFA and Eden, I couldn't agree more with what both of you are saying. Thank you.

[Tuckervill]

It will be months before I become eligible for the vaccine. In fact, by the time there is enough vaccine for people in my category, the peak of the flu season in my area will be over. I can't take responsibility for spreading a virus that I can't prevent. I just can't do a single thing about that.

I'm sorry about your son.

Karen

[snapdragen]

SFA and Eden, I couldn't agree more with what both of you are saying. Thank you.

+1 million.

//got my flu shot, will get the H1N1 shot when it's available. Since I work at a hospital I expect it to be sooner rather than later.

[Zen]

Anyone born after the 1950's when we last had an H1N1 has NO immunity.

Wow! Bonus to you for knowing H1N1 has been around before! I learned that by reading the aforementioned Flu.
It's a good book, reads like a crime novel.

I can't take a flu shot due to an immune deficiency but I do get a pneumonia shot every year.

[KnottedYet]

Wow! Bonus to you for knowing H1N1 has been around before! I learned that by reading the aforementioned Flu.
It's a good book, reads like a crime novel.

We have had sooooooo much flu education at work, and we all have to read flu updates every day, and we're all educating all our patients all the time. Not a bonus to me, unfortunately. Just part of what is hammered into our heads.

I really want to read that book, Zen.

(oooh, one cool piece of trivia I learned recently: it appears that osteoporosis medications may kill off the H1N1 virus in vivo. that could be nifty if it turns out to be true.)

[Aquila]

Sarah,

I hope your son is doing better and continues to recover.

***

I get the flu shot partly for myself. I can't afford to be off work for a couple weeks, as one of my colleagues was a couple years ago. I work with young adults, and I know their handwashing isn't quite what it might be. I'm in a relatively low risk group (middle-aged woman, healthy), and I've never had the flu.

I'll get the swine flu vaccine when the people at higher risk have had opportunities to get it and it becomes available to the wider community. As I understand it, the swine flu vaccine is made with the same process that's been used for seasonal vaccines for years now; it's a proven method, safe and pretty effective for most people. Too bad they didn't know and have it ready to go to put in the seasonal shot because it would be less of a hassle for all of us.

But the other reason I get the flu shot is because it contributes to herd immunity. If we can get 90% or so of the community covered, we can reduce the chances that folks with compromised immune systems or other problems catch bugs. That means a lot to me. I want to help keep Sarah's son and others just a little safer.

One last word about vaccines: small pox. Okay, that's two words, but really, we got rid of a disease that used to kill a lot of people.

We have a chance to get rid of polio if we can get everything together. My aunt had polio in the 50s, and it still causes her problems. I'm grateful to have had the polio vaccine as a kid; none of my schoolmates got polio that I remember. What a change that was from my parents' generation!

[ny biker]

(oooh, one cool piece of trivia I learned recently: it appears that osteoporosis medications may kill off the H1N1 virus in vivo. that could be nifty if it turns out to be true.)

That would be awesome, since my father has bad asthma AND takes osteoporosis meds.

[Selkie]

My dad was disabled from a childhood bout w/polio (feet were different sizes).

In my early 30s, I had to get a polio booster shot before I traveled overseas, among other shots.

I get the flu shot because they give it to us at work---convenient, free, etc. I decided not to get the H1N1, if they have any left for the rest of us (not pregnant, no little kids/babies in the house, etc.) I figure that by the time it's available, I'll likely have already been exposed to the virus.

This definitely is one of those personal choices, so everyone has to do what's right for them.