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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    The Swine Flu Shot a Waste of Time!

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    I call on doctors office for my profession, and have spoken to more and more people that have received the swine flu shot and have still become sick with the swine flu!

    I just don't believe in all of the vaccinations for the flu. Ok, maybe once a year I get the flu, but at least I build my immunity up.

    What do you all think?

    Lisa

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    I had to get the seasonal flu shot for work, and to me that was a dangerous waste.

    It's true, rolling out the swine flu vaccine while the virus is already circulating widely isn't the ideal situation, but you may as well close the barn door while some of the horses are still inside, eh?

    Did your friends get the flu more than two weeks after their shot (i.e. after enough time had passed that the shot should have worked), or was it just a matter of timing? Did they get the DNA test (not that I think seasonal flu is circulating anywhere, but still)?

    I used to get the flu every year when I was young. Sure, I don't have a full-time job and I don't have any kids, so being in bed for two weeks isn't as big a deal to me as it is to most people. Still, it's not a whole lot of fun, and of course physically the rule of thumb is that for every week you spend in bed, it takes a month to recover. But as a general rule I might get a flu shot every 3-4 years. I agree though, I don't think that mass vaccination for something that's basically minor, is a good idea. Protect the ones for whom it could become a major illness; vaccinate against devastating (and non-fast-mutating) diseases like polio. And for crying out loud, devote half the resources to a freakin' malaria vaccine as are being devoted to the stupid flu right now.

    Still, I said in the other thread - if I hadn't had to get the seasonal flu shot, I'd have been all over the swine flu shot as soon as it became available. I definitely don't need to be in bed for 3-4 weeks like everyone I know who's had the swine flu. But I'm very, very hesitant to get two vaccines in quick succession.

    Truth is, with travel and the holidays coming up, I'll probably take the coward's way and get the shot. I don't know whether it's best to get it as soon as it's available to me though, or whether I should wait until the inflammation from the seasonal flu shot is completely gone...
    Last edited by OakLeaf; 10-29-2009 at 04:02 AM.
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
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    5,318

    nup

    Swin flu season passed quicky down this way & I never got it. I think the flu shot's a waste of time & taxpayers dollars because it's not been tested as long as others.

    The people that did die from it in Australia had underlying health issues anyways.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    759
    Vaccines are the biggest source of income for both human doctors as well as veterinarians.

    FYI for those of you with cats and dogs. DON'T vaccinate get their titers checked. This is what we do with our older cats, and their titers show that they are well protected as they received FeLv/FIV vaccine when they were younger.

    Lisa

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    northern Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
    Swin flu season passed quicky down this way & I never got it. I think the flu shot's a waste of time & taxpayers dollars because it's not been tested as long as others.

    The people that did die from it in Australia had underlying health issues anyways.
    So those of us with underlying health issues do not consider getting the vaccine a waste of time.

    I'm glad you're all healthy. Unfortunately asthma runs in my family and I have it. The adult-onset kind that gets worse as you get older. I've watched my grandmother and my father slowly lose their ability to breathe. And now it's happening to me. So I don't take flu pandemics lightly.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    3,867
    Yeah, if I were in the high risk group, I'd get the vaccine. But none of us in our family are in that group. There aren't enough to go around, so there's no point in waiting in line in the mass free clinics going on today in our state.

    I'll probably sit idly by waiting for things to get way worse before I get it. I have never had the flu or the flu shot. (When I get a fever, it's usually strep throat.)

    I would like it if my grandson got it...born early, 4-1/2 now, but he gets every cold that comes along. And he goes to preschool and has a 7 mo baby brother. :-/ I don't think his mother will do it.

    Karen
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Limbo
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    I suggest reading FLU by Gina Kolata before making any sweeping scientific pronouncements.

    Quote Originally Posted by itself View Post
    Ok, maybe once a year I get the flu, but at least I build my immunity up.
    You get the flu once a year?
    Last edited by Zen; 10-29-2009 at 07:34 AM.
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  8. #8
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    Sep 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by ny biker View Post
    So those of us with underlying health issues do not consider getting the vaccine a waste of time.

    I'm glad you're all healthy. Unfortunately asthma runs in my family and I have it. The adult-onset kind that gets worse as you get older. I've watched my grandmother and my father slowly lose their ability to breathe. And now it's happening to me. So I don't take flu pandemics lightly.
    +1

    Already got my seasonal flu shot and am waiting for swine flu shot. Fortunately retired and no kids to expose me. My neighbor had swine flu, healthy 40ish male and wife said she had never seen anyone so sick.

    As an adult onset asthmatic I don't need to hear it gets worse as you get older. My Dr. said my asthma is more difficult to treat because my triggers are environmental irritants and often don't know what will set me off.

    When I was a kid I had the Asian flu, no shots then, and wound up in the hospital with pneunomia. Don't want to repeat that experience.

  9. #9
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    Sep 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen View Post
    I suggest reading FLU by Gina Kolata before making any sweeping scientific pronouncements.
    My great aunts daughter, 21 yrs old, died in that epidemic.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Western Canada-prairies, mountain & ocean
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    Gave opinion for myself elsewhere:
    http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...t=34776&page=2
    Right now, I'm just taking extra good care of myself to reduce my cold since I have a meeting early next wk. I can only speak for myself. The clinics in our area are swamped with lineups.

    Now they are advising people who go to Olympics 2010, to take the vaccine before coming here. Honest, we are plotting to do all our non-perishable grocery shopping and stockup before the crowds and mayhem descend. More to avoid the traffic/people jams, not necessarily infectious disease. We live near the major venues.


    Wouldn't be the greatest feeling if one was pregnant and be compelled to take H1N1 vacinne shot. But better to be safe in such situations.

    When Toronto had the SARS which did through Toronto area, also Vancouver area went into a major tizzy since both cities are also major international airport destinations, there were serious quarantine efforts for health care related facilities, etc. 4 of my siblings work in 4 different hospitals across Toronto area, with 3 in daily contact with multiple patients...they all had to take precautions. None were sick from it though.
    Last edited by shootingstar; 10-29-2009 at 07:39 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by OakLeaf View Post
    But I'm very, very hesitant to get two vaccines in quick succession.
    Why is that, OakLeaf?

    (I know, I know, I should read up on it properly, but I'm lazy and it's more fun to ask you guys )

    My workplace is offering both shots to all employees in a few weeks time. Normally I wouldn't bother getting any flu shot, but after spending a week second-guessing myself on whether my son had swine flu or just a bad cold, I'm ready for the whole family to take the shot just to not have to do that all winter. Which isn't really a very good reason. But my FIL has just had heart surgery, he's doing great but he can't risk any infection at all, so that's another and better reason, be sure not to infect him.

    Health issues: I don't have any heart problems that I know of, but all of my close family does or did, so I guess there's still a possibility that I have something they haven't found yet.
    Winter riding is much less about badassery and much more about bundle-uppery. - malkin

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  12. #12
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    Dec 2005
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    WA State
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zen View Post
    I suggest reading FLU by Gina Kolata before making any sweeping scientific pronouncements.



    You get the flu once a year?
    Many people who *think* they have flu just have a 24 hour bug. I've never had real flu. It makes you sick - really, really, really sick. If you get a stomach bug that makes you throw up a few times and you feel better in a day or two you have not had flu.

    From what I understand nausea and vomiting are part of swine flu in addition to regular flu symptoms, but season flu is an upper respiratory infection - fever, body aches, cough.

    As far as I know I've never had the actual flu. I've never been that sick. I haven't had flu shots in the past, but I get them now. I'm not that concerned about myself, but I work in a children's hospital and I would never want to make a kid sick, especially one who's health is already compromised. I haven't had either yet this year, because the vaccine supplies have been too low and they've really been prioritizing. (I work in outpatient, so far I'm not on the list)
    "Sharing the road means getting along, not getting ahead" - 1994 Washington State Driver's Guide

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OakLeaf View Post
    .....I don't think that mass vaccination for something that's basically minor, is a good idea. Protect the ones for whom it could become a major illness; vaccinate against devastating (and non-fast-mutating) diseases like polio.
    The problem is for many people flu isn't minor and that is is basically minor for you isn't the issue. It's about the health of the overall community.
    If you don't protect the healthy people the sickest people suffer.

    ........But I'm very, very hesitant to get two vaccines in quick succession.
    You shouldn't get two doses of Flu Mist on the same day - because its live attenuated virus (In injectable flu vaccines the virus is flat out dead. Flu mist is deactivated virus, but is still alive. No- it won't give you the flu, but it can cause some mild symptoms). Otherwise its perfectly safe to get many vaccinations at the same time. Normal season flu vaccine always carries several strains.

    There's a really good article in the November issue of Wired (and yeah! its online http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/ff_waronscience ) that talks about vaccines and the myths surrounding them.
    "Sharing the road means getting along, not getting ahead" - 1994 Washington State Driver's Guide

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  14. #14
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    I'm not talking "minor" as in the discomfort being minimal. Flu is obviously extremely debilitating when you have it. Like I said, I'm ordinarily in bed for two weeks, and I think that's pretty much normal for flu.

    I'm talking "minor" as in the frequency of complications. Sure, they happen, and sometimes to people who are not at high risk, but IMO the incidence of complications is way too low to justify universal immunization.

    W/R/T scheduling, I just don't know that it's such a great idea to subject myself to a prolonged inflammatory state. I know the research on repeat vaccines is fairly thin, but obviously the medical/industrial institutions are only just starting to learn about the functions of connective tissue and the dangers of prolonged inflammation. It just seems too risky to me, since I'm not at high risk for complications.


    Edit: And I work as an aerobics instructor a couple of days a week. Worst case would be I can't find a sub and my participants have to work out on their own. Nobody's really going to suffer if I get sick.
    Last edited by OakLeaf; 10-29-2009 at 11:01 AM.
    Speed comes from what you put behind you. - Judi Ketteler

  15. #15
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    WA State
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    Quote Originally Posted by OakLeaf View Post
    I'm not talking "minor" as in the discomfort being minimal. Flu is obviously extremely debilitating when you have it. Like I said, I'm ordinarily in bed for two weeks, and I think that's pretty much much normal for flu.
    I'm not talking about minor as in symptoms either. I'm talking about not being minor as in killing people... For you getting sick is inconvenient. For many people getting flu kills them. As far as nobody suffering if you get sick... you are carrying the virus and are probably contagious before you get symptoms that put you to bed. You get plenty of opportunity to pass the virus who may not be as healthy as you are. By protecting yourself you are protecting the all of the vulnerable people. (and btw, just being vaccinated for anything is not 100% assurance that you are not still able to get sick, which is another reason that it is *very* important for everyone to be vaccinated. If just the vulnerable people get vaccinated, that isn't assurance that they are safe. Prevent the outbreaks in the first place) Read the Wired article.

    A recent study estimated that in the United States, annual influenza epidemics result in approximately 600,000 life-years lost, 3 million hospitalized days, and 30 million outpatient visits, resulting in medical costs of $10 billion annually. According to this study, lost earnings due to illness and loss of life amounted to over $15 billion annually and the total economic burden of annual influenza epidemics amounts to over $80 billion.

    And flu virus doesn't just cause flu. Before flu vaccines 15,000 children were infected with Hib meningitis every year, which can easily kill or cause permanent brain damage.

    I'm in a bit of a special circumstance - working with sick kids, but even if I knew that my being vaccinated only protected one kid, I'd still feel obligated to do it. It's too much of a risk, even if I know I won't get very sick and it wouldn't impact my personal life too much, to not get vaccinated. Of course in reality my getting vaccinated could protect many, many people. If I get sick and I make two people sick and they make two people sick......
    Last edited by Eden; 10-29-2009 at 11:27 AM.
    "Sharing the road means getting along, not getting ahead" - 1994 Washington State Driver's Guide

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