How much do looks define your self-image?

[Mr. Bloom]

I've found that cycling friends are much more "real"

That's what happens when you swallow bugs at 18mph

[Crankin]

Just playing the devil's advocate, but, when did wearing make up equate with being or not being a feminist? Why do people think that caring about looks is evil?
Anyone who knows me (male or female) would say that I am pretty outspoken about gender role stuff and I don't put up with any c*ap from anyone. Heck, I was even the mom who didn't feel one shred of guilt about working.
And yes, I appreciate being with cyclists more than other types. Where else can you discuss bodily functions, while being totally sweaty, dressed in lycra? And, nobody cares! But, I still like make up!

[Tuckervill]

There's something about the beauty of the anonymity of the Internet.

lol +1!

[Aggie_Ama]

Just playing the devil's advocate, but, when did wearing make up equate with being or not being a feminist? Why do people think that caring about looks is evil?
Anyone who knows me (male or female) would say that I am pretty outspoken about gender role stuff and I don't put up with any c*ap from anyone. Heck, I was even the mom who didn't feel one shred of guilt about working.
And yes, I appreciate being with cyclists more than other types. Where else can you discuss bodily functions, while being totally sweaty, dressed in lycra? And, nobody cares! But, I still like make up!

I like my makeup too! As I said earlier- foundation, eyeshadow, eyeliner and mascara every day. Sometimes lipstick but mostly I forget it wore off. If I can find my blush brush I will wear it but often not. Until I started reading TE I didn't know makeup was so shunned? The only thing in my makeup that is even noticeable is the eyeliner/mascara but I don't put it on thick. It is probably most noticeable to me because I have blond lashes and I think I look completely different without makeup on.

[roadie gal]

I was the short, fat, scraggly haired kid with braces and glasses... with 2 beautiful sisters. Let me tell you, that screws up your self image forever. I know that I'm no longer that teenager. I have a lot more self confidence and I KNOW I look better now and I'm healthier than I've ever been. BUT deep down, I'm still that lonely kid. I think your early self image stays with you throughout your life. You aren't necessarily bound by it, but it's there.

BTW, I turned 50 last month. I've been looking forward to it. There's something magical about a half century. But it does make you look back and think "What have I done with that half century?" I don't feel old. It's hard to describe the exact feeling.

[Biciclista]

When I was a small child, for a while I was a prodigy at guessing ages. My mother would bring me into a party, or introduce me to guests and tell me to guess their ages. I could see the lines and signs of age. I used to upset some women because my guesses were very good. I thought 50 was very old.
So when I actually hit 50 myself, I could remember my childish reactions to 50 year old faces and shudder.
Sadly, i lost the ability to guess ages accurately by the time I was a teenager and now I can hardly do it at all.

[lph]

I took the day off and went xc skiing today (hooray for working for the Norwegian government ), and this thread kept rolling around in my mind.

I don't think we'll ever get away from wanting to be attractive, that's a fairly basic urge, and looks will always play some role in that no matter who stellar your personality is, but I wish we could move away from equating looking good with looking young and vice versa. Some people genuinely look younger than their years - off the top of my head I can think of Leonardo DiCaprio and Christina Ricci, they both have big eyes and "childlike" faces. My father-in-law is another, he has a full head of hair, few wrinkles and a boyish face with big eyes, and will always look younger than he is.

But most times I don't think we're doing ourselves any favours by saying that someone "looks young" when what we mean is that they look good, or fit, or active.

I get told that sometimes, that I don't look like I'm almost 40. That's not really a compliment I appreciate that much, even though it's meant well. I don't look 30 or 35, I have the grey hair and the wrinkles to prove it - I look like a fit 40-year-old. I feel like saying - uh, no, this is what active 40-yr.old women look like. I have a colleague too who is a good example of this. He's extremely fit and 63 years old. He has skiied, biked and kayaked his whole life, and has an amazing body to show for it (I've seen most of it in the sauna ), and I'd be tempted to say that he doesn't look a day over 50, but that's not right. He looks like an extremely fit 63-yr.old. That is what extremely fit 63-yr.olds look like, and hurray for that!

Funny thing: when I was 18 I'd rather be thought of as hot/cute/sexy than fit, and if somebody had complimented me on my muscles I would find them a bit creepy (I had muscles back then too, rode race-horses for a living age 16-20). Now I would much rather be complimented on my fitness than my "hotness", which I would find a little creepy...

In general I would never want to be 20 again. Lawdy, what a hassle.

[Biciclista]

.


Funny thing: when I was 18 I'd rather be thought of as hot/cute/sexy than fit, and if somebody had complimented me on my muscles I would find them a bit creepy (I had muscles back then too, rode race-horses for a living age 16-20). Now I would much rather be complimented on my fitness than my "hotness", which I would find a little creepy...

In general I would never want to be 20 again. Lawdy, what a hassle.

Yeah, really. How many young women come on here freaked out that they might gain muscles in their legs and then won't bike because of it!

[jobob]

I had a low self-image when I was younger.

Nowadays it shocks me a bit when I see myself in the mirror and I think I look pretty darn good

[lph]

Mebbe you were busy changing a flat

In general I would never want to be 20 again. Lawdy, what a hassle.

This came out a little wrong. No offense to the 20-yr. olds smart enough to be on this board - I just wasn't a particularly nice, or smart, or happy one.

[OakLeaf]

What lph said. I could've written a lot of that, except not nearly so eloquently! (And except for the fact that I loved my muscles when I was 18, too.)

I would expand a little by saying that there's a huge difference between "looks don't matter" vs. "the type of looks that matter to me are maybe a little different from what I perceive as mattering to the mainstream media." An enormous difference.

Like a lot of you, maybe most women, much of my self-image comes from cruel, ugly things my parents and peers told me when I was a pre-adolescent. So in that way, you could say that looks don't define my self image - I feel just as fat at 122 lbs as I did at 150.

I never learned to put on makeup, and there are times (pretty infrequent) when I feel "naked" without it, but in general I don't miss it. I'm not enormously concerned about my hair, and I'm not terribly motivated to cover my grey; but six months of stupendously awful haircuts (two winters in a row) really added up to make me feel unattractive.

When I look at my chest in the mirror, I don't care that I don't see large firm b00bs. But I do care that I can make my pecs dance. The scars on my legs, well, I'd be happier not to have them, but if I catch a glimpse of defined muscles in the mirror when I'm putting on pantyhose, that does give me an ego boost. I'm okay with my cyclist's tan (white shoulders, white upper thighs, raccoon eyes), but I do feel pasty and pudgy when I have no tan at all (and I will cop to putting sunblock on my nose in a pretty futile attempt to keep it close to the same color as my cheeks at least ). I'm not shy about walking into stores in my cycling shorts. But I'd change before I went to the opera.


I read something a few years back that I just now remembered and I may not be describing this exactly right, but I know I have the gist of it. Some researchers put male and female subjects through exercise programs. All of the participants lost weight and got stronger. But if the women's self-image improved, they were more likely to say it was because they were stronger and more muscular; if the men's self-image improved, they were more likely to say it was because they'd lost weight. The researchers interpreted this as indicating that the non-stereotypical values mattered more to each gender; but I thought it was something else.

For me, and for most women, my self-image about my weight is immutable. I know in my heart that I am fat (and yah, I know, I'm sure years of therapy could help me with that, but honestly I have more important things to deal with in therapy ). No amount of weight loss will make me feel not-fat. Being strong and muscular, on the other hand - because it's something I received no messages about as a child - I can see the changes in my body honestly, without all the filters and "tapes." I can own the results of the work I've done and be happy about it. My guess is that it's the same for men - their idea of whether they're strong or weak is instilled as a value judgment in childhood and difficult to change, whereas they can see themselves more objectively as fat or thin.

[Mr. Bloom]

but I wish we could move away from equating looking good with looking young and vice versa.

Ironically, as I was at the peak of my '08 fitness...and a few pounds lighter, I looked older due to the lines that formed in my face as the 'jowl fat' was burned off...

[shootingstar]

When I was a small child, for a while I was a prodigy at guessing ages. My mother would bring me into a party, or introduce me to guests and tell me to guess their ages. I could see the lines and signs of age. I used to upset some women because my guesses were very good.

I can imagine, Mimi. Methinks there maybe alot of TE members, including myself, hope that we look abit younger or at least MOVE, younger than our age.

In response to Crankin, I don't diss makeup. It is useful for certain times. I'm just glad to be with grown sisters, nieces and my partner's daughter who don't feel any need to look better with makeup when we visit one another even if we haven't see each other for awhile.

I haven't worn mascara in past quarter century. My eyes feel exhausted after 1-2 hrs. And you can't really notice the mascara on me anyway. Useless.

Alot of Asian eyes, the way how the eyes are set into the face, require a ton of mascara, or curling the eyelashes plus eyeliner to make it noticeable /worthwhile. However some of my sisters nominally use the stuff.

But for myself, I am with a guy ..who doesn't even want to kiss me when I wear lipstick. Lipstick has fragrance. If I wear foundation, he turns his face away..he can smell the fragrance which he is allergic. There are people like him, who if they sat beside a woman wearing make-up, they start getting a headache /allergic reaction which makes it difficult to concentrate at a meeting. It happened to him at a biz meeting in a small board rm. He really wanted to leave the rm.

As for ever looking like a hottie at any point in life, LOL, I think I missed that stage. I must have been sitting by the roadside of life, when it all happened.

[emily_in_nc]

And yes, I appreciate being with cyclists more than other types. Where else can you discuss bodily functions, while being totally sweaty, dressed in lycra? And, nobody cares! But, I still like make up!

Me too!