How much do looks define your self-image?

[Mr. Bloom]

I think the superficial norms you refer to are media hype and not mainstream belief. Superficial people hold on to those icons...not mainstream folks.

I acknowledge that the hype doesn't apply it in the same way to men...but I assure you that men apply the same standard to themselves. Barbara Walters (I think??) interviewed Paul Newman and essentially asked him if he knew what a hottie he was...his response was "I feel ancient"... I could only hope to be half as ancient as him at that age.

Don't confuse "hot" with "attractive" or "desirable"...what made Paul Newman desirable as he aged was an attitude, an energy, and a graceful disposition.

I think of Sarah Cannon (Minnie Pearl)...there was nothing "hot" about her or her character, but when she walked into a room, the room was filled with her grace and class...and she had LOTS of it.

Attractiveness comes from within, in the attitude...not from age or media hype

JMHO

PS: Sorry, I've not followed the "best bike advice" thread...

[uforgot]

Don't confuse "hot" with "attractive" or "desirable"...what made Paul Newman desirable as he aged was an attitude, an energy, and a graceful disposition.

I think of Sarah Cannon (Minnie Pearl)...there was nothing "hot" about her or her character, but when she walked into a room, the room was filled with her grace and class...and she had LOTS of it.

Attractiveness comes from within, in the attitude...not from age or media hype

JMHO

PS: Sorry, I've not followed the "best bike advice" thread...

Well said, Mr. Silver. You should go read the best advice thread. Your quote belongs there.

[lph]

yup, but I think they affect us more than we like to acknowledge.

I happened to think of a reality show I surfed into on tv one night, where the big challenge, and the chance to win a large cash prize, involved the woman (of a couple) cutting her hair in a pretty wild haircut. To begin with they were all gung-ho and rah-rah about this, but when the hairdresser was actually standing there with a shaver... 2 out of 3 refused. You could see that this went beyond a game and suddenly became very serious to them, and they got weepy and upset. Looks do matter a lot, to very many women.

But hey, I'd be happy to be told that this isn't a big issue.

[OakLeaf]

Hair is funny because it can change so radically so quickly. Even though it will grow back out (for most people), there's no hiding it for those weeks or months until it does. You don't get wrinkles, gain weight, get b00bsag, whatever, in 30 minutes without any ability to process the change emotionally, but your hair affects your appearance just as much as those things.

I've definitely had haircuts that have left me in tears, and pretty recently too. Granted a large part of it was tears of frustation with I think six consecutive stylists in my new town who gave me truly horrible haircuts.

Losing a chunk of my breast - even the relatively small chunk of a biopsy - has definitely affected me emotionally. Although of course it's hard to say how much of that is just the appearance (definitely some) and how much seeing it triggers all the emotions that went with it.

I think it's only natural. Look at the displays that animals go through to change their appearance, both voluntary things like puffing out fur, spreading a cobra's hood, etc.; semi-voluntary things like when an animal pumps blood to an area to change its color; and involuntary things like seasonal variations in plumage. Putting on a suit to go to court used to feel like donning a suit of armor (and if you know any mediaeval or classical literature, traditionally there are extended arming scenes where the hero puts on his armor, but also metaphorically and emotionally prepares himself for the conflict).

All anyone has to do is ask yourself whether you'd wear the same clothes to clean toilets and to go to a charity ball, and you have your answer as to how much appearance matters. You can't say that clothes matter but the body underneath doesn't. We don't have to like it, but I think we do have to acknowledge it.

[Miranda]

Hair is funny because it can change so radically so quickly. Even though it will grow back out (for most people), there's no hiding it for those weeks or months until it does. You don't get wrinkles, gain weight, get b00bsag, whatever, in 30 minutes without any ability to process the change emotionally, but your hair affects your appearance just as much as those things.

I've definitely had haircuts that have left me in tears, and pretty recently too. Granted a large part of it was tears of frustation with I think six consecutive stylists in my new town who gave me truly horrible haircuts.

I am still thinking about my overall response to this thread. Good one, lph.

However, Oakleaf...

I am a natural redhead. If you ask Mr. Google, only 1-2% of human world population is born that way. All my life, it has been the one thing I consider to be a uniqueness that makes me... "me".

Well, short of the story, major disaster with the hairdresser and finding a good new one is a freakin nightmare. Here's a tip someone gave to me, that I recently just applied...

The next time you are out and see some woman with beautiful hair you lust after etc., go talk to her. Pay her the compliment of her beautiful hair, and then ask who is her stylist. IME the woman will be flattered, and happy to tell you where to go find the stylist.

When you find this person, do not make the first meeting the actual hair cut appointment. Call ahead and/or stop by to meet the person. Some do a consult appointment. Get their opinion, and get a vibe of how the two of you gel together... and/or look at her client that might be there at the time. IF all that feels "ok", then proceed with a basic trim appointment. If you feel good about that, then do the next one to something else if desired.

Signed,
Miranda
Neurotic Vain Hair Person

[Bruno28]

Alternatively - wait until your hair is such a disaster area that you are forced to walk into the nearest hairdresser and ask for 'something short and easy to manage'

Realise that even the worst haircut will grow out in a matter of a couple of weeks.

Bruno - who's really not that comfortable with people invading her personal space.

Imagine my reaction to my friend's suggestion we have a pre-wedding spa day. (Her response - 'I sense your buttocks are clenching')

[OakLeaf]

walk into the nearest hairdresser and ask for 'something short and easy to manage'

Uh-uh. My hair is short and spectacularly easy to manage. I had no idea how much skill it takes to cut it until I learned the hard way!

Thanks, Miranda - part of that equation is also making sure the person you ask has hair like yours, too - thick or thin, coarse or fine, whether the cut is traditional or contemporary, etc. I did that once but unfortunately her stylist wasn't taking any new clients.

I've finally found someone who does a pretty good job with my hair and I'm sticking with him... even though his salon is dirty, he smells like cigarette smoke and he's constantly complaining about his son's mother, politics, or something. It's totally worth it to tolerate the nasty environment once every three or four weeks, to get a decent haircut.

[redrhodie]

That thread got me thinking, too. Society may not think I'm as hot as I was at 20, but I FEEL hotter now. If given the choice, I would not go back to my younger self. I feel stronger than ever, and I think I look better than ever, too.

So, I guess I am still defined by my self image, but that image is finally something I like, not something I want to change. Who would have thought, that the girl who hated her appearance for so many years, would finally be able to feel this way! Yay for getting older!

[indysteel]

I think the average person wants to feel pretty or attractive on some level, but what that means probably differs from person to person. For some, they may be fixated on what society--or what they perceive society--sees as attractive. Others may see their attractiveness as a function of their fitness, energy, and overall health. Others may see it solely as something that you project from the inside. Still others may see it as a combination of all those things.

I will admit that I've been plagued at times with self-image problems. I've fixated, to greater on lesser degrees, on things that I perceive as being physically "wrong" with me. The best way that I can describe it is that there are days where my self image is extremely distorted. I've taken both healthy and unhealthy approaches to deal with these problems. It's taken me a long time to come to some degree of peace about it, and to be honest, I think it's something that I'll never entirely put to bed.

If you asked me on a good day whether my self esteem is based on my looks, I'd give an emphatic "no." But when I'm having an ugly day--and thankfully they don't happen all that often now--I feel like poo. For instance, I currently wear braces. I didn't have them as a kid, but I decided to get them as an adult to fix some functional and cosmetic issues that had long bothered me. Most days, I don't give them or my appearance with them much thought. On the days that my orthodontist wants to go over my progress by showing me all manner of unflattering pictures of both the inside and outside of my mouth, I just want to crawl under a rock. It usually takes me a day or two to rebound.

I'm not proud of this, necessarily, and to be honest, I don't usually talk about this stuff with anyone. I'd been in therapy for five years before I brought it up--and there was nothing else that I kept from her. So, at least for me, there's a lot of shame associated with these feelings.

I have to be VERY careful with this stuff when it comes to my boyfriend. While he's very complimentary, I don't want to rely on what he says or think too much, or at all. While I appreciate his compliments, the "solution" to these issues doesn't lie with affirmation from other people. It is up to me--and only me--to change my own thinking about myself.

Wow; I must really trust you ladies (and Mr. Silver ) to have just shared all that.......