i got yelled at today

[redrhodie]

Just tell them that the way to "get those molds loose" from where they're stuck is to pay for them, and that you are not about to do that since you haven't been paid yourself.

In fact, call the folks who have the molds, and say that since these folks owe you for them you'd like to have them back so you can hang onto them until you get paid.

I did that today. The manufacturer received their check (yay!), but said he wouldn't send the molds until it cleared.

[Duck on Wheels]

OK. I guess. But I thought you made the molds and hadn't been paid for them. That would mean that you sent them on to the next step in the process on the understanding that you would, soon, be paid. Meanwhile, those molds are yours and are only on loan. So if it were me and my business, I'd hang onto them.

[Trek420]

I did that today. The manufacturer received their check (yay!), but said he wouldn't send the molds until it cleared.

He needs to wait until you are paid. Does the Mfr. know that you haven't? Once he sends them on .... you never will.

Again, not a lawyer, don't play one on TV but creative work is work and if he sends it on it's like sending work he doesn't own which could be a liability issue to the Mfr. Your client is bypassing you to get as much done for free.

And he'll do that to any other artist along the way.

If he can get the mold without paying you....then he'll go on and get it built but sc*ew the packaging designer or get it shipped but rip off the cost of materials and so on. All to get it done by the holiday ah....the spirit of Christmas

Don't enable him, work with the manufacturer who is already suspicious of his methods.

Neither of you will ever do work for Mr Sociopathic Cheapskate again, but if he wants to work with you again you can be a team on this.

[Mr. Bloom]

I've been in business for 23 years...

It's been my experience that the one who holds "the molds" ALWAYS gets paid...it's kind of a legal "ransom" relationship.

I ditto the other feedback above. I think the key at this point is "just let go"...which is easier said than done (at least in my experience...).

[Trek420]

I ditto the other feedback above. I think the key at this point is "just let go"...which is easier said than done (at least in my experience...).

I regret that this may be an expensive life lesson learned. I was in the graphic design field for about 12 years, I love art and anything related to it but it's unfortunate that for many creative folk one of the first experiences of success is getting ripped off. As in
"Hey, someone will pay me to do what i love....well maybe not".

Ask Mr. Screamer "Do you work for free? Right, I don't either"

Words I watch out for to this day "this is so much fun for you" translation "this isn't work, it's play so you'll do this free, right?"

I learned:

never to work on spec and to this day I don't do "we're looking for drawings and we'll pay the best one" regardless of the prize.

never let your original work out of your sight, I don't do "oh just drop off your portfolio we just want to look". Yeah right, you want to look and have YOUR people steal the ideas.

never work without a written contract or an agent you trust.

It's a shame it has to be like this. If I could be as intuitive, flexible and creative in the business side as I can be in drawing I'd still be doing it.

[redrhodie]

I've been in business for 23 years...

It's been my experience that the one who holds "the molds" ALWAYS gets paid...it's kind of a legal "ransom" relationship.

I ditto the other feedback above. I think the key at this point is "just let go"...which is easier said than done (at least in my experience...).

In my field, and this is the fun and ironic part....molds are cheap and can be made from the samples they already have. They don't know they don't need the molds. They're pretty clueless.

Yeah, I'm letting this go. I'm pretty sure they won't be able to make it work anyway. It's a small industry where reputation is everything. They've already blown that.

[Mr. Bloom]

It's a small industry where reputation is everything. They've already blown that.

So, can you tell us what the product is so we can organize a universal boycott?

[r900]

I read this and it has been on my mind all day. I'm wondering if you could get a lien on this product or even the molds since it was your input that was the impetus to the molds existence. I would be willing to ask the moldmaker if they have had experience in applying for liens on products that they have made. I know that there are lots of different liens but I certainly wouldn't know. It would be great to have a voice-mail recording once he found you put a lien on the molds! Judges don't like bullies.Maybe this is over the top, but it is fun to think about being a little vindictave to these bottom feeders! I support your decision whatever you decide. They really deserve drunken hecklers at their cabaret performance. Too bad I don't live closer! go ride a bike . have some fun.

[Zen]

i find the idea of this man being a cabaret performer so intriguing and amusing.

[redrhodie]

Sorry to be so confusing. For designing, I was to be paid a % of sales (according to the contract I never received!). Since the product was still in development, there were no sales as it didn't get to that point. That's why I haven't been paid. In additon to the percent, I was to be paid an hourly rate for labor, also to be paid when the vendors paid for the product.

They paid for materials, including the molds (if their check clears).

Here's a simplified version (maybe?) of my quandary:

A sculptor is commissioned by a woman to make a bronze statue of her husband. He only finishes one leg, then decides he's done. Can the woman, if she's paid for the bronze, keep the leg, even though she hasn't paid the sculptor?

I wonder if I have a leg to stand? oh, no! that's bad!

[Duck on Wheels]

Sorry to be so confusing. For designing, I was to be paid a % of sales (according to the contract I never received!). Since the product was still in development, there were no sales as it didn't get to that point. That's why I haven't been paid. In additon to the percent, I was to be paid an hourly rate for labor, also to be paid when the vendors paid for the product.

They paid for materials, including the molds (if their check clears).

Here's a simplified version (maybe?) of my quandary:

A sculptor is commissioned by a woman to make a bronze statue of her husband. He only finishes one leg, then decides he's done. Can the woman, if she's paid for the bronze, keep the leg, even though she hasn't paid the sculptor?

I wonder if I have a leg to stand? oh, no! that's bad!

OK. So if that was the agreement, then you can't hold out on the mold until you get paid, but I think you probably CAN hold out on the mold until you get a written contract as to how they will pay you for it. You just say that what with the tone of voice they took with you and them not listening to a word you said, you can't move forward on the basis of an oral agreement. Again, posession is more than half the law, and if the manufacturer agrees with you, then YOU posess the mold.