i got yelled at today

[redrhodie]

So now they want me to contact one of the maufacturers (the one who has still not been paid) to get the molds I had made sent to them. They'd "greatly appreciate any assistance". Sheesh! What a noive!

How does this sound for my response: "Since Bill referred to me as a "mealy mouth *****" and a "f***ing c**t" (among other things), in our conversation this morning, I am no longer wanting any involvement with either of you."?

Or, should I just call the guy, have the molds sent, and be done with it?

[Zen]

Or, should I just call the guy, have the molds sent, and be done with it?

ABSOLUTELY NOT
He's on his own. Obviously he's pi$$ed everybody off and thinks you might be malleable enough to do his dirty work.

Be done with him.

Do you have caller I.D.? Don't even deal with him on the phone, do everything else by email so you'll have records.

[teigyr]

I wouldn't talk to him, I wouldn't send anything to anybody, and I would pretend like he doesn't exist. That includes talking to his wife, other business partners, or anybody else to do with this.

That's just me though I know you did a lot of work for free but you should give up nothing else. That includes postage, time, or anything.

Rude. I read this earlier today and couldn't believe it. What a bully!

[Trek420]

The work you've done, till paid for by him .... or another client is yours to keep. If he wants to deliver a contract and pay you for the work done so far, and a hefty "I'm sorry I was such an **hole" fee I'd be done with him.

I'd report him to the BBB so prospective workers etc are warned.

As for the behavior on the phone that's unaceptable. I work in a call center and I don't tolerate it. Even when we've really f*cked things up and deserve to be called every name in the book you're talking to me, not a company, I'm a person. I will apologize up the yazoo if we blew it and even if we haven't done anything wrong as in "I'm sorry your payment that you mailed three months after it was due was late but..." and I can calm almost anyone down.

But I usually warn the caller I won't be talked to that way if they continue they go on hold till my ears stop ringing.

People are really rude these days.

[Bad JuJu]

I wouldn't talk to him, I wouldn't send anything to anybody, and I would pretend like he doesn't exist. That includes talking to his wife, other business partners, or anybody else to do with this.

That's just me though I know you did a lot of work for free but you should give up nothing else. That includes postage, time, or anything.

I'm 100% with teigyr on this--don't waste any more time or energy--psychic, physical, or otherwise--on these creeps. What's almost as bad as the yelling is their refusal to listen to you. Nobody should have to put up with that.

I took a pay cut to leave one job and take a new one about 7 years ago because my boss yelled at people, sometimes in public. He never yelled at me, but it was just too hard working for a guy that I knew could go off at any moment if things weren't going his way. It was well worth the $3k a year I gave up to find a place where I could do my work in peace.

[redrhodie]

Thanks for all the advice! I decided to not respond to their email requesting help in dealing with the manufacturer. I'm done!

More than him being a con-artist, I think he's a narcissist. He definitely has a grandiose sense of self and sense of entitlement that he should have outgrown by kindergarden.

Zen, I have good records including photocopies of all the pieces I designed, as well as every email sent by them and to them, which includes a lot of the issues (including how much and when I would be paid) that would have been addressed in the written contract that I never received. I wonder if this has any legal merit if, down the road, I discover they're selling the pieces I designed? At this point, I think it's unlikely that they'll be able to pull their act together (find some other poor schmuck to manipulate into producing a sellable product!), so it may be a moot point.

I had the best ride today. I rode as slow as I could, which was new for me. I saw views I had never noticed before on my regular route. Where'd that horse farm come from? Never noticed that before! Didn't think about them once. My life is back !

[Duck on Wheels]

So now they want me to contact one of the maufacturers (the one who has still not been paid) to get the molds I had made sent to them. They'd "greatly appreciate any assistance". Sheesh! What a noive!

How does this sound for my response: "Since Bill referred to me as a "mealy mouth *****" and a "f***ing c**t" (among other things), in our conversation this morning, I am no longer wanting any involvement with either of you."?

Or, should I just call the guy, have the molds sent, and be done with it?

Just tell them that the way to "get those molds loose" from where they're stuck is to pay for them, and that you are not about to do that since you haven't been paid yourself.

In fact, call the folks who have the molds, and say that since these folks owe you for them you'd like to have them back so you can hang onto them until you get paid.

[redrhodie]

Just tell them that the way to "get those molds loose" from where they're stuck is to pay for them, and that you are not about to do that since you haven't been paid yourself.

In fact, call the folks who have the molds, and say that since these folks owe you for them you'd like to have them back so you can hang onto them until you get paid.

I did that today. The manufacturer received their check (yay!), but said he wouldn't send the molds until it cleared.

[Duck on Wheels]

OK. I guess. But I thought you made the molds and hadn't been paid for them. That would mean that you sent them on to the next step in the process on the understanding that you would, soon, be paid. Meanwhile, those molds are yours and are only on loan. So if it were me and my business, I'd hang onto them.

[Trek420]

I did that today. The manufacturer received their check (yay!), but said he wouldn't send the molds until it cleared.

He needs to wait until you are paid. Does the Mfr. know that you haven't? Once he sends them on .... you never will.

Again, not a lawyer, don't play one on TV but creative work is work and if he sends it on it's like sending work he doesn't own which could be a liability issue to the Mfr. Your client is bypassing you to get as much done for free.

And he'll do that to any other artist along the way.

If he can get the mold without paying you....then he'll go on and get it built but sc*ew the packaging designer or get it shipped but rip off the cost of materials and so on. All to get it done by the holiday ah....the spirit of Christmas

Don't enable him, work with the manufacturer who is already suspicious of his methods.

Neither of you will ever do work for Mr Sociopathic Cheapskate again, but if he wants to work with you again you can be a team on this.

[Mr. Bloom]

I've been in business for 23 years...

It's been my experience that the one who holds "the molds" ALWAYS gets paid...it's kind of a legal "ransom" relationship.

I ditto the other feedback above. I think the key at this point is "just let go"...which is easier said than done (at least in my experience...).

[Trek420]

I ditto the other feedback above. I think the key at this point is "just let go"...which is easier said than done (at least in my experience...).

I regret that this may be an expensive life lesson learned. I was in the graphic design field for about 12 years, I love art and anything related to it but it's unfortunate that for many creative folk one of the first experiences of success is getting ripped off. As in
"Hey, someone will pay me to do what i love....well maybe not".

Ask Mr. Screamer "Do you work for free? Right, I don't either"

Words I watch out for to this day "this is so much fun for you" translation "this isn't work, it's play so you'll do this free, right?"

I learned:

never to work on spec and to this day I don't do "we're looking for drawings and we'll pay the best one" regardless of the prize.

never let your original work out of your sight, I don't do "oh just drop off your portfolio we just want to look". Yeah right, you want to look and have YOUR people steal the ideas.

never work without a written contract or an agent you trust.

It's a shame it has to be like this. If I could be as intuitive, flexible and creative in the business side as I can be in drawing I'd still be doing it.

[redrhodie]

I've been in business for 23 years...

It's been my experience that the one who holds "the molds" ALWAYS gets paid...it's kind of a legal "ransom" relationship.

I ditto the other feedback above. I think the key at this point is "just let go"...which is easier said than done (at least in my experience...).

In my field, and this is the fun and ironic part....molds are cheap and can be made from the samples they already have. They don't know they don't need the molds. They're pretty clueless.

Yeah, I'm letting this go. I'm pretty sure they won't be able to make it work anyway. It's a small industry where reputation is everything. They've already blown that.

[Mr. Bloom]

It's a small industry where reputation is everything. They've already blown that.

So, can you tell us what the product is so we can organize a universal boycott?

[redrhodie]

Sorry to be so confusing. For designing, I was to be paid a % of sales (according to the contract I never received!). Since the product was still in development, there were no sales as it didn't get to that point. That's why I haven't been paid. In additon to the percent, I was to be paid an hourly rate for labor, also to be paid when the vendors paid for the product.

They paid for materials, including the molds (if their check clears).

Here's a simplified version (maybe?) of my quandary:

A sculptor is commissioned by a woman to make a bronze statue of her husband. He only finishes one leg, then decides he's done. Can the woman, if she's paid for the bronze, keep the leg, even though she hasn't paid the sculptor?

I wonder if I have a leg to stand? oh, no! that's bad!