Cracked frame(?)

[ny biker]

I was cleaning my bike last night (Madone 4.7 carbon frame) when I noticed something odd on the top of the top tube. Like, is that a crack? Or maybe (hopefully) just a crack in the paint?

So I brought it to the bike shop today and asked them to look at it. First a mechanic looked at it and said it appeared to be a crack. Then the service manager examined it and agreed with the mechanic. Then the store manager who sold it to me walked by, and I told him what was happening, so he looked at it and tapped on it with a dime, and based on the sound of the tapping on different parts of the top tube, agreed that it was probably cracked.

The bike is slightly more than a year old. I have not crashed on it.

So, they immediately emailed the warranty person at Trek, so he knows to expect it, and they are shipping the bike to Wisconsin today. We should have an answer next week. While we hope for the best, they told me the possible outcomes:

1. Trek determines it was caused by a manufacturing defect, and replaces the frame at no cost under the lifetime warranty.

2. Trek determines it was not defective, and I can buy a new frame at a 20-30% discount. Replacement frame will have the same lifetime warranty as the original.

3. Another company can repair the frame. No warranty under this scenario, but it costs less.

The replacement frame might not be available in the same color, but I'm not in love with the gray color anyway.

Last night all I could think was that I can't afford a new bike right now. It didn't even occur to me that all the components are still good. I could manage the cost of a new frame, though I'd prefer not to spend that money, especially not with holiday expenses on the horizon.

Anyway, I guess my mountain bike will finally get some attention this weekend. I haven't ridden it in years. It's been in a storage shed on the balcony, but I did get it cleaned and tuned last spring so it should be good to go, maybe with some fresh chain lube.

I really hope they replace the frame under warranty...

[Tokie]

Oh, I hope that Trek gives you a replacement at no cost - that's just not right to crack like that, when your bike is almost brand new! good luck! When I crashed my Ruby I had my frame sent off to Calfee (I live in California) and they fixed my chain stay for I think 450$ - not cheap. That was without a paint job to cover/match the repair to my frame. I have put many miles on it since, but did stop racing on it (I figure it might not hold up well in another crash). when you haven't even crashed your bike, no reason for the frame to crack like that. Glad you spotted it before it failed - yikes! tokie

[jennyrc]

Good luck! I have been curious about how well treks lifetime frame warranty works with Carbon. I have a Madone as well (4.5) and thankfully no cracks yet, but I would hate to have this happen as it was a major splurge to buy this bike to begin with.

Good luck! (And have fun with your MTB...mine has been neglected ever since the Madone)

[OakLeaf]

A friend of mine had his Madone frame replaced under warranty last year. It took a while IIRC, but he had nothing but good to say about the way they handled it. He actually got an upgrade to the next level frame at no extra cost, I don't remember why.

[ny biker]

Oh, I hope that Trek gives you a replacement at no cost - that's just not right to crack like that, when your bike is almost brand new! good luck! When I crashed my Ruby I had my frame sent off to Calfee (I live in California) and they fixed my chain stay for I think 450$ - not cheap. That was without a paint job to cover/match the repair to my frame. I have put many miles on it since, but did stop racing on it (I figure it might not hold up well in another crash). when you haven't even crashed your bike, no reason for the frame to crack like that. Glad you spotted it before it failed - yikes! tokie

Calfee was the company they mentioned for the repair option. It's good to know that you had a good experience with them.

This potentially messes up my plans to re-test the Affinity RL saddle to see if it's more comfortable than I had thought back in the spring. I figured my butt is as tough as it's going to get at this point in the year, which is ideal for saddle testing. If I'm off the road bike for too long, it will be too cold for long test rides.

Oh well. This is certainly not the worst thing in the world. Just a bummer.

[westtexas]

I worry about this a lot with my carbon frame. It fell into a wall about a month after I had it, but luckily the paint was just scratched. Plus with all the travelling I do with it - I worry every time when I unpack it that it will be smashed to bits. But I came to the same conclusion as you - I can afford a new frame if it breaks because the parts will still be good. But I really like my frame (the colors are why I got it) and I don't know if it's replaceable.

[ny biker]

I think if carbon frames were really fragile, there would be plenty of us posting about cracked frames here. So I think they are generally reliable. Of course I might feel differently about them by the time this little adventure is over.

The issue of frequent travel is an interesting one. I wonder what the pros do to protect carbon bikes and components when they travel.

[westtexas]

The issue of frequent travel is an interesting one. I wonder what the pros do to protect carbon bikes and components when they travel.

Obviously, I am not a pro. But I got the Helium Biknd case and so far have been very satisfied with its ability to protect my bike despite airline luggage handlers' best efforts. It's a softshell, lightweight case (bike + case is less than 50 pounds) that utilizes air bladders to protect the frame from the wheels and from injury. The frame itself is bolted to the bottom of the case on a quick release skewer and it has nice wheels to move it along with. I pack my bike according to the case's instructions and put foam PVC pipe protectors around the top tube/down tube/seat stays/etc. etc. (also the derailleur). It got lost in Dallas on my last trip but arrived a day later without a scratch. Seems to be working so far. Supposedly this is the case that a lot of pros use, too. After my first flight with it, and now having it been lost in the airport at a plane change, I feel pretty secure using it and don't have any anxiety concerning it's condition while travelling. But then there's always that moment when you unzip the case and see the frame...

[Kiwi Stoker]

Pros have multiple bikes and just contact their bike sponsor when something happens.

One triathlete broke her carbon seatpost while on the bike leg and RODE the entire way standing up. WOW.

New carbon seatpost was urgently DHLed to her the next day.

[goldfinch]

I worry about this a little with my Madone 4.7 because I am clumsy and I am afraid I will do something to hurt the frame, and if I had to make a claim Trek can't replace it because they don't make that frame size anymore. So, I am not sure what would happen.

The very few people I have heard talk about making claims to Trek on their frame warranty have reported a good experience.

[Biciclista]

lucky for us, frame fractures are rare!
My husband had the same thing happen to a Raleigh he bought (he had had it a few years by then), and although they didn't entirely replace it, they put a good amount of money towards the next bike he bought.
SAVE your receipts!

[Grog]

Some bikes seem to be more susceptible. My husband's R3 Cervelo (2009 or 2010 model, can't remember) developed a crack near the bottom bracket, and another of his teammates had the exact same thing happen on the exact same bike. They were both replaced by the company by the "new and improved" R3 model. Apparently it was an issue with the bike's design.....

[bluebug32]

I tend to freak out even when I find a chip in my carbon fiber frame's paint. It still doesn't keep me from riding dirt roads though

[ny biker]

Some bikes seem to be more susceptible. My husband's R3 Cervelo (2009 or 2010 model, can't remember) developed a crack near the bottom bracket, and another of his teammates had the exact same thing happen on the exact same bike. They were both replaced by the company by the "new and improved" R3 model. Apparently it was an issue with the bike's design.....

The LBS manager said something about another customer having a similar problem recently, so maybe there is a design flaw.

Meanwhile I'm about to leave for my first mountain bike ride in years. I'm riding the canal towpath, not single track, but it will still be fun. It took lots of prep -- getting out the right shoes, finding spare tubes for the tires, making sure the frame pump was set to schrader valves, etc etc. I found 2 packs of gu in my camelback with "best by" dates in 2007 -- has it really been that long?!?

[Seajay]

We try to encourage our clients to treat carbon bikes just like any other bike.
Paint chips, stones thrown up off the road and minor impacts will not cause a failure in a high quality carbon frame.
Its a lot tougher than we think. There is impact resistance built into the design.
The very nature of how the composite works tends to stop crack propagation at the microscopic level.

I think with a metal frame we assume paint chips and small dings are no problem so we tend to ignore them. With a carbon frame we are unfamiliar with the material and how it works so we tend to be hyper sensitive to any small thing.

The guy at the shop doing the tap test was on target. I have seen surveyors of high end ($1mil+) racing yachts do the same thing.
However, simply a change in sound is not a death sentence. There are other reasons the sound could change. Your frame has no history that would make me assume it is de-laminating. If it were a no name "black plastic" frame MAYBE...but the odds of a modern Trek just delaminating with no history is so remote.

Here's how I approach suspected "cracks" in frames
What is the history?
If there was a big impact that would have damaged ANY material frame....we assume some damage may have taken place.
If it's minor impact, typical stuff....and we are all standing around wondering if its an issue....its probably not an issue.
Keep riding it. Do the tap test on it from time to time to see if it changes over the next month or so to make yourself feel better. Likely it will not change.
If it changes and becomes more apparent...then explore your other options but this is a pretty rare case.

Keep in mind what happens when your bike falls over.
The pedals, wheels, seat and handlebars take the impact. Imagine even the bike falling out the back of a truck onto the road. Its going to tumble over the wheels, handlebars, saddle and pedals. All the while dissipating energy. The odds of the frame taking the first and hardest impact is remote. If it did take a direct impact here...it would kill steel, aluminum, carbon and probably titanium, so it wouldn't matter the material

The place you can hurt a carbon frame is clamping. This is where things are different than ferrous frames.
If you are clamping your frame into a workstand or old school thule rack, adjusting stems on steertubes or seatposts without a torque wrench you are asking for trouble (ie the hamfisted Trek mechanic a couple years ago)

An interesting read is Craig Calfee's white paper on Carbon. It's out of date but an informative read anyway, I wish he had time to update it. Calfee knows his stuff when it comes to CF composites. Re the Ruby...If Craig fixed it, I wouldn't worry about it failing ever.