Cracked frame(?)

[Grog]

Some bikes seem to be more susceptible. My husband's R3 Cervelo (2009 or 2010 model, can't remember) developed a crack near the bottom bracket, and another of his teammates had the exact same thing happen on the exact same bike. They were both replaced by the company by the "new and improved" R3 model. Apparently it was an issue with the bike's design.....

[bluebug32]

I tend to freak out even when I find a chip in my carbon fiber frame's paint. It still doesn't keep me from riding dirt roads though

[Seajay]

We try to encourage our clients to treat carbon bikes just like any other bike.
Paint chips, stones thrown up off the road and minor impacts will not cause a failure in a high quality carbon frame.
Its a lot tougher than we think. There is impact resistance built into the design.
The very nature of how the composite works tends to stop crack propagation at the microscopic level.

I think with a metal frame we assume paint chips and small dings are no problem so we tend to ignore them. With a carbon frame we are unfamiliar with the material and how it works so we tend to be hyper sensitive to any small thing.

The guy at the shop doing the tap test was on target. I have seen surveyors of high end ($1mil+) racing yachts do the same thing.
However, simply a change in sound is not a death sentence. There are other reasons the sound could change. Your frame has no history that would make me assume it is de-laminating. If it were a no name "black plastic" frame MAYBE...but the odds of a modern Trek just delaminating with no history is so remote.

Here's how I approach suspected "cracks" in frames
What is the history?
If there was a big impact that would have damaged ANY material frame....we assume some damage may have taken place.
If it's minor impact, typical stuff....and we are all standing around wondering if its an issue....its probably not an issue.
Keep riding it. Do the tap test on it from time to time to see if it changes over the next month or so to make yourself feel better. Likely it will not change.
If it changes and becomes more apparent...then explore your other options but this is a pretty rare case.

Keep in mind what happens when your bike falls over.
The pedals, wheels, seat and handlebars take the impact. Imagine even the bike falling out the back of a truck onto the road. Its going to tumble over the wheels, handlebars, saddle and pedals. All the while dissipating energy. The odds of the frame taking the first and hardest impact is remote. If it did take a direct impact here...it would kill steel, aluminum, carbon and probably titanium, so it wouldn't matter the material

The place you can hurt a carbon frame is clamping. This is where things are different than ferrous frames.
If you are clamping your frame into a workstand or old school thule rack, adjusting stems on steertubes or seatposts without a torque wrench you are asking for trouble (ie the hamfisted Trek mechanic a couple years ago)

An interesting read is Craig Calfee's white paper on Carbon. It's out of date but an informative read anyway, I wish he had time to update it. Calfee knows his stuff when it comes to CF composites. Re the Ruby...If Craig fixed it, I wouldn't worry about it failing ever.

[ny biker]

Update: I'm still waiting to hear from Trek. I've spoken to the guy at the LBS and he was hoping to hear from them today.

Meanwhile, there is this article on repairing damaged carbon frames and components from velonews.com, which discusses various companies in the US, UK and Australia that do repairs.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/...rames_196178/1

I finally managed to get out and ride the mountain bike yesterday. I took it to ride on the canal towpath last weekend (at Great Falls, Maryland), but discovered a big spot on the side of the rear tire that looked like massive failure was imminent. So I put the bike back in the car and spent a few hours hiking instead.

A couple of days later I went to the LBS and got new tires. They're designated "light trail," for use on easy dry single track, fireroads, and even pavement, but are not good for technical single track because they're not very knobby. I figured they would work for my current situation. So I put the new tires on the wheels along with new tubes, and the next day found that one of them had gone flat due to a defective valve. Good thing I had just bought some additional spare tubes.

After all this, I figured my best bet would be to ride on the paved trail near the LBS, so that I would be able to quickly6 resolve any additonal mechanical issues that might crop up. So that's what I did yesterday. I was also curious to see how fast the light trail tires could go on pavement. Pretty fast, as it turned out -- I averaged 14 mph over 36 miles, which is not much slower than my road bike.

The trail I rode yesterday (WOD) has a dirt path running parallel to much of it. I think it will make a nice change of pace to ride the mountain bike on it, especially in colder weather when I won't be doing such long rides. And I would like to get back to the towpath.

Still, I really would like to get an answer from Trek.

[bluebug32]

Interesting points, Seajay. I wish you could be a guest speaker at our weekly ride where we tend to do lots of dirt roads. There's lots of freaking out about causing damage to carbon frames.

[redrhodie]

I was thinking about this thread the other day. I was in my lbs as they received 2 frames repaired by Calfee. I took a really close look, and I could not see any evidence of the cracks, or the repairs. I also saw the "before" pics of the damage, which looked pretty bad. They looked perfect, as good as new. They were both Specialized frames. I was impressed. Just thought you'd like to know, if you end up going that route, they seem to do great work.

[Seajay]

RR Yes, Craig Calfee has been doing the carbon thing a long time. I think the early Tetra frames were late 80's. Smart to get into carbon frame repair but his Tretra Pro and DragonFly frames are well worth considering if looking for a new bike. He does excellent work. No, I don't work for him.

BlueBug. The clear tape that is used for protecting cars and boats works well on bike frames on underside of tubes. It makes a nice little barrier if people are concerned about rock chips on dirt roads. It's basically the same product used on "invisible car bras" I think its called Vantage by 3M.

[ny biker]

Some bikes seem to be more susceptible. My husband's R3 Cervelo (2009 or 2010 model, can't remember) developed a crack near the bottom bracket, and another of his teammates had the exact same thing happen on the exact same bike. They were both replaced by the company by the "new and improved" R3 model. Apparently it was an issue with the bike's design.....

The LBS manager said something about another customer having a similar problem recently, so maybe there is a design flaw.

Meanwhile I'm about to leave for my first mountain bike ride in years. I'm riding the canal towpath, not single track, but it will still be fun. It took lots of prep -- getting out the right shoes, finding spare tubes for the tires, making sure the frame pump was set to schrader valves, etc etc. I found 2 packs of gu in my camelback with "best by" dates in 2007 -- has it really been that long?!?