Lost in Hawaii. Short newbie needs advice!

[kauai_gal]

Hi all!

I am just getting into cycling. After weeks of driving my SO and the LBS guys nuts, I have decided that I would like:

-a sport touring bike (I want to do a century ride this year, but will mainly use this bike for commuting)

- a steel frame (I love the look/history/durability of simple steel frames)

- something with gears (relocating to SF in a year)

- I like the option of drop bars, but overall would prefer a more upright rather than racing-style ride

My problem here is that I live on a remote island, and I'm 5'0 and most LBS's don't stock the shorter bikes. I am wondering if it is smart to get a used bike in the $400-500 range first (like maybe an old Eros if I could find it), since I am a beginner and am not sure what I really need/want in a bike. I scour ebay and craigslist everyday! I even have mom in Portland searching for deals for me (we're the same size).

I am lusting after the Bianchis, and really like the 2010 Volpe. I would save up for and spend the $1100 on the new Volpe if it were the smarter purchase overall (although, what's up with the Bianchi price increases every year)??

I have also considered the Jamis Aurora but it is too big, I think. I need something 42-44cm and with a top tube of around 493mm. People have recommended the Surly LHT, but I've read it is heavy. I have a meager budget (up to $1200 at the *very very* high end), so custom builds are out.

My other concern is tire size. The LBS recommended 650 wheels, but I've never actually tried to ride either (the 650 or the 700). The new Volpe comes with 700 wheels. I don't know if I could manage on those. It's hard to try these out because my bike would need to be special ordered.

I would love to hear from others who have been in this situation. Did anyone get a shorter frame Bianchi and have success?

Many thanks in advance!

[Cataboo]

What is your inseam? I'm 5'1 maybe with a 29 inch inseam? - I think Zen's roughly the same size, and her jamis Aurora fits both of us fine. I have a 43 cm surly pacer - which sounds to be almost exactly like that you're looking for - so maybe watch ebay or the craigslists for a surly pacer. I don't know that you can get it in a complete build.

700c wheels - I hated 650'sthe one time I tried a bike with them, but quite possibly I just hated the bike and not specifically the wheels. Lots of the shorter women on here absolutely love the 650's, but there's several short women on here using 700's without problems

[KnottedYet]

The Surly Pacer is available as a complete bike now: http://surlybikes.com/bikes/pacer_complete/

[Sylvia]

I would consider checking with Terry Bikes. There are usually 2 or 3 available via ebay at any given time. Georgena is usually pretty good about answering questions on older Terry models on their forums or just send her an email. When I was looking for a bike, she was quite helpful even when I didn't end up getting a Terry (I needed a step-through frame and they didn't carry any unless custom ordered).

[sarahspins]

-a sport touring bike (I want to do a century ride this year, but will mainly use this bike for commuting)

My sister completed the Honolulu Century last year on a Mountain Bike She mostly commutes on it (she is a dedicated commuter - pretty much never drives anywhere unless she has company staying with her), and kind of has the mindset of "I don't want to own more than one bike". She does ride "for fun" on the weekends.

I don't know why I mention that, other than don't let whatever you end up with stop you from dreaming of a century. If you want a bike for commuting I'd be more concerned that it meets your needs for that.

You can ride on the tops of drop bars... most people ride on the hoods, not in the drops, you can even add cross levers to the top without much work if whatever you're looking at doesn't have them (this could be a DIY job if you aren't afraid to cut the brake cable housings and re-tape your bars, but IMO a shop shouldn't charge a very much for it either, and the levers themselves are only $25-30)... I put them on my errand bike after I put drop bars on it, but my new-to-me road bike came with them.

There are also bikes with drop bars with more "relaxed" geometry, so you're not in a low road racing position.

[alimey]

I love my 650 wheels - or more precisely the bike they are on. It sold it to me when a frame designer said "I design the frame to fit the person - then I see what wheels will fit. If the person is under 5'2", 700c wheels never fit without adjusting the frame geometry". Frames which will fit a 5'1" person which take 700c wheels are a bit of a compromise. You tend to get a very steep seat tube & a very slack head tube (as well as toe clip overlap. In addition, the bike proportions look a bit odd as the back wheel is higher than the top tube. Disadvantages of 650c wheels are less choice in wheels (& to some extent tyres) - but fit is king & in my mind vastly outweighs all the other issues. If you are 5'4" then you are on the cusp. Note the discussions by really tall blokes - they have issues w/ 700c wheels because they are too small for their needs.

[kauai_gal]

What great feedback!

Thanks all. I will look into the Surly Pacers.. my biggest concern with that one is the issue of weight.

I have checked out the Terry bikes. Great looking, but I'm not sold on having tires of different sizes.

I agree that fit should be the most important factor. I wish I could find something in my size here locally. The LBSs here want me to pay for half of the bike before I even get to try it, since it is a custom order. If I pay for it and it doesn't fit, I'm stuck with it. Is that typical of most bike shops? It seems unfair to both the short and tall riders of the world who don't fit the bikes on the floor. Boo. I guess I should guestimate my size as best I can and then pick one model and hope for the best? The LBS here sized me at a 43-44cm frame (and that was for a Felt or Bianchi frame).

As for the Honolulu century ride - on a mountain bike?! That's amazing! I want to do the Haleiwa century ride but it is in a month, and I don't think that gives me enough time to find / order a bike I want. I'll aim for the Sept. Honolulu century instead, I guess. I'm so excited to start cycling! I can hardly wait!

[KnottedYet]

I am just getting into cycling. After weeks of driving my SO and the LBS guys nuts, I have decided that I would like:

- a steel frame (I love the look/history/durability of simple steel frames)

A steel frame is going to weigh a pound or two more than an equivalent carbon-epoxy frame.

A full bladder weighs about a pound or two. Pee before you ride, and you'll never notice the weight difference in your frame.

The Pacer is a lighter bike than the LHT. They are very different bikes.

Honestly, what you put ON the frame has more to do with the weight of the bike than the material the frame is made of.

My steel Surly Cross Check with all her fenders and racks and lights and sprung Brooks saddle, etc, easily weighs near 30 lbs. My steel Waterford X-12, even with her sprung Brooks saddle, weighs only 21.5 lbs. Because she doesn't have fenders and racks and lights and fat tires and huge BMX pedals, etc. etc.

[moderncyclista]

A full bladder weighs about a pound or two. Pee before you ride, and you'll never notice the weight difference in your frame.

KnottedYet: This is great, albeit hilarious advice. I chuckled aloud while I read it.

Kauai_gal: What is your inseam length? I have a 47cm Jamis Aurora and the stand over height is 27 inches. A small Jamis might work for you. The Surly Pacer sounds like a fun and awesome choice. (This is such a girl thing to say, but oh well - It is a great color this year! ) Oh, I'm short and I like 700C wheels. To be fair I have never tried 650 wheels, so I only have one side of the experience to share. Toe over lap hasn't been a problem - unless I make a radical U - turn or really tight turn (which I hardly ever do.)

[Cataboo]

My surly pacer in 43 cm is built up at about 25 lbs. But she's got big heavy duty wheels (36 spokes with 622x19 rims & 700x28 tires), with 8 speed XTR mountain biking components, cheap road triple crankset, flame stickers, and a back rack on it. A comfy seat & and blinker lights.

So... I could make that bike lighter if I wanted to, but it was built for comfy commuting.

As for 700c bikes for women under 5'1 without the steep seattube angle ... I need about a 530-540 top tube, so if I find a small frame with a slack geometry, I do great with 700cs. minimal toe overlap if there's any.

[kauai_gal]

moderncyclista: My inseam is 43cm. I think any of the bikes I'm considering will be just about the max standover height I could handle. I guess tippy toes at stoplights could be managable. I do like that the Jamis bikes have more of a sloping top tube so in theory, could be shorter near the seat than the actual given standover height.

What are your thoughts on carbon fork vs. chromo forks? I like what I've read about the absorbency of carbon, and that it would be lighter. (I'm a weakling with no upper body strength! Though I guess, carrying a 28lb-ish bike would certainly build muscles...). Oh, and with a lighter fork, does that make the bike more unstable in the front?

So far I'm whittling my choices down to:
Jamis - Aurora or Satellite or Satellite Femme
Bianchi - Volpe or Brava

To be perfectly superficial (lol), I love the color of the Brava, and feel impassionate about the colors of the Volpe and the Jamis Satellite Femme.

Does anyone know how wide of a tire the Brava and the Satellite can take? I think both have eyelets for fenders, and skinny racks..

Can one tell the difference between a bike that weighs 22 lbs vs. 28 lbs? I'm mostly doing credit card touring, and commuting so I won't be weighing this down much, but it is still one factor I'm considering. I will be sure to pee first, Knottedyet! Haha

On other forums, I have read that the Aurora feels slow. True? I won't be racing but I was curious about how it would compare to the Volpe. I have not found a women's point of view on it yet..

Thank you all so much for providing insight. After lengthy digging in all of the forums, I realize now that my situation isn't so unique. I appreciate you all providing answers, though you must be so sick of hearing the question: "help, i'm <short> and can't find anything at my LBS, what do I do?"

[oz rider]

I'm 5'1" with short torso (preferred ett around 490-500 on roadies) and understand the issue with no bikes to test. Very frustrating. The upside is that we end up learning a lot about geometry. Of the bikes you've mentioned, I've only ridden the LHT (42cm I think it was; the smallest anyway) and fwiw found it very heavy with slow steering and taking longer to stop than the average road train. But it did fit, with a longer flatter stem than out of the box. But, with an eye on % bodyweight, I decided the frame was overbuilt for me for light touring so I've gone custom.

I had a 700c roadie initially, but found production 700s too long in the top tube and with steep seat posts so the weight balance/reach was all wrong. I went custom 650 in the end with the roadie for better position and geometry, despite most bike shops (staffed by tall men) hating them. It's not really the wheel size that's important - it's the geometry that the wheel size allows. For me it's like the difference between rear and front wheel drive. 650 is so direct it's amazing, while 700 feels articulated by comparison.

I'd certainly recommend some standover clearance, and the manufacturer websites will usually show it. And yes you can feel a difference of 6lbs, especially up a hill. But totally agree that people can worry about frame weight then use heavy components, from groupset to wheels and saddle.

And yes it's pretty standard that you have to commit to custom orders cos shops find it so hard to move the little sizes. Don't know that you'd have much luck in Hawaii, but I ended up calling the local distributor looking for a 650 'dale to test and they let the shop have it on a return basis which was very helpful. Very nice ride, but too compact for me, otherwise I would have bought it. Might be worth a try. I was always disappointed that Trek wouldn't do the same here; its much-publicised test ride program specifically excluded 650s which I think is really awful, given the reluctance of shops to buy them. You might get lucky with a great distributor or dealer. I did eventually test ride an alloy Trek 650 but didn't like the way it cornered; never felt I could trust it. Both 'dales (I did buy an older alloy one second hand) were better bikes for me. I haven't ridden the little Felts, but it might be worth keeping an eye out for them too. Not sure about racks etc for these though. There's not too many options in steel sadly.

Try to test ride anything you can get your hands on, even if it's not perfect. It all helps in deciding what you want.

[moderncyclista]

kauai_gal: You might have read the thread I've authored. I own an Aurora. It flexes a little more than my 520, therefore I feel it is slower. If running top speed isn't an issue, it's a great bike. The Aurora is comfortable over long distances and fun. A stiffer frame allows for better power transfer to the rear wheel, but makes a rougher ride, but I like that in my 520. It's all personal preference. By no means am I saying the Aurora isn't a good bike. It is a good, comfortable ride that is lightweight steel - soaks up vibrations - and does what it was built to do. I'm going to eventually trade/sell it at my LBS, not because it isn't a great bike - but because I prefer the geometry, fit, and feel of my other bike. So don't count the Aurora out. This year the Aurora comes in blue (standard) or maroon (elite - with annoying disc brakes - ie. more of a hassle, imo.)

[tangentgirl]

No advice. I just want to do the Haleiwa century ride. Sitting here trying to convince my bf that it's a GREAT idea to jet out to Hawaii/spend $$ on a vacation five days before we move.

[kauai_gal]

tangentgirl: HAHA! You sound like me. I am sitting here in Hawaii trying to convince my bf that it's a great idea to fly out to Portland, Chicago, or San Fran just to go shopping for our new bikes ("But honey, the selection is so much greater in [...] and look at all of the [...] they have available on craigslist!"). And we're gearing up to move from Hawaii at the end of the year.

The Haleiwa century ride is supposed to be a beautiful one ("One of the best 50 century rides in the U.S..." according to the flyers). It will certainly be more scenic and appealing than the one in Honolulu town. I am bummed that we won't be ready for it in time, but there will be others, I'm sure. I am eager to move to Northern Cali so we can take our 40-lb aussie fluffball with us on an epic biking journey down the coast.