Negativity? Depression? How to make a friendship with doom and gloom?

[Crankin]

I say this as a therapist and as someone with a friend somewhat like this. Not as bad, but with other mental health issues that I cannot deal with anymore.
You are right that depression is intertwined with negative thinking and huge cognitive distortions. But, Irulan said it well. You are enabling her to continue this behavior when you don't set boundaries around what is acceptable. Be clear, use a neutral tone, and then detach. I know some people feel this is "mean," but you need to think about you. Therapy seems to have worked for you, and I wouldn't surround myself with anyone with these traits. I have detached myself from a close relative because of something like this. I just can't take the negativity, and refusal to see the glass half full.

[OakLeaf]

What Irulan said.

I hope this isn't entirely true, I don't really want it to be true, but most of what I've gotten out of years of therapy for double depression is that I'm not so much of a jerk as I used to be (at least I don't think I am ...). I don't know that I really feel any better inside myself, but I've tried to learn what behaviors are "normal" and appropriate and what ones aren't, and therapy has been really important with that. Maybe there's some way you can put it to her that way, I don't know because it doesn't sound all that appealing or worthwhile really, but somehow express that therapy could help her act better even if it doesn't help her feel better?

[shootingstar]

You want friendship don't you? And friendship is a 2 way street. Gently ask for it in a discreet manner and then shorten a visit, etc. if she refuses to adjust her behaviour...to at least make you happy as her friend /being a friend to you.

By the way, do you jog, bike together or some non-competitive sport together? Maybe some companionship in this way while it lets her temporarily enjoy time with you in headspace together.

[rebeccaC]

Personally I’d start spending less time with her. That doesn’t mean deserting her. When I have to deal with a negative person, especially a friend, I try to remember Pema Chodron’s advice to look at it as a way to work on the non-judgmental awareness of my emotions and thoughts.

You seem to know some of the reasons for her misery/pain/fears. You might want to use that as a guide in looking at yourself with emotional intelligence and perhaps realizing things about yourself. That way you learn from her rather than having negative thoughts to yourself about her. Chodron is big on looking at situations as teachers.

Kindness, empathy, strength and forgiveness are better and healthier than feeding the habit of negative emotions in ourselves. Now that doesn’t mean I don’t have irrational moments of just not wanting to deal with someone at times and I allow for that. I do try and encourage the positives in myself though. Time will tell how the relationship works out and if you find your way to get through it in positive way, you and perhaps she will just benefit from that.

[Melalvai]

There was some Eeyore thing going around facebook that was something along the lines of, even though Eeyore is clinically depressed, his friends don't try to cheer him up or change him, they include him in their adventures and they don't expect him to be happy about it.

Unless you can have that attitude about her, give yourself some space. You're not doing either of you any good by feeling unhappy about her unhappiness.

[Irulan]

that is awesome.

[colorisnt]

Gonna respond to a bit of everything. Thanks, ladies. I appreciate it.

Short version: detach with love.

If you still want to hang around, you can set boundaries for yourself, "Mary I don't want to listen to you complain about X. We can talk about something different, or I'm going to go get coffee" (or something ) As long as you make yourself available, she will use you.

caveat: I've been in treatment for depression for a good part of my adult life. This is why I don't buy depression as an excuse to be a jerk.

I feel this way (about the bold) a lot as someone who wasn't frequently described as a "jerk" while depressed but instead quiet (which is not me). People told me after the fact that I was easy to deal with because they would bring me along, I'd be quiet at first, but then I would relax a bit. They knew the depression was much better when I was back to being very extroverted. That said, I know everyone is different. I've tried boundaries before. I will say "I have to go if you're just going to go back over x." Or "I just can't support you buying x right now because you said you could barely afford y. I'm not going to let you go on and on about why you bought it" but it usually results in her crying and getting on the phone with her mother (in front of me). She freaks out with any push back anymore. I feel like being honest is really hard.

That whole thing started when she damaged my mental health this summer. She had a kidney stone and I was the only person in town to take care of her. I did because that's what friends do. Problem was, she refused to take her meds as planned, was as helpless as a child, had no pain tolerance, and would then ask me to bus her back again and again to the ER. Now, I've had surgery for stones and they SUCK but she was such a hard patient to care for that I couldn't take the meds I needed to sleep at night (impair my driving). I got manic and then I got sick and she and I came to blows over me saying "Someone else has to step in here" because I was years behind in my studies, not sleeping, and going crazy slowly after a month of her being incredibly inconsiderate about my helping her. She didn't even bother to ask me about schedules for things she could and I finally (calmly) told her this was too hard for me to deal with and asked her to call another friend to take her to ONE appointment. Instead, she went into hysterics and called her mother who (on speaker phone) told me I was an awful person. After that, things never really got better.

I have detached myself from a close relative because of something like this. I just can't take the negativity, and refusal to see the glass half full.

This is what my therapist says. His line is basically, "In this situation, you have to do what's best for you." but it just seems so harsh. Up until 10 months ago, things were swell.

Maybe there's some way you can put it to her that way, I don't know because it doesn't sound all that appealing or worthwhile really, but somehow express that therapy could help her act better even if it doesn't help her feel better?

CBT was LIFE changing for my OCD and has helped me cope better with my PTSD. I swear by it. She knows all about the changes I made in CBT and recognized them. The one time she asked me directly about doing it herself, I explained it but she said it sounded "stupid" because she all therapists are the same. I have no clue why she asked me just to say it was stupid. Perhaps she's afraid of it or something?

By the way, do you jog, bike together or some non-competitive sport together? Maybe some companionship in this way while it lets her temporarily enjoy time with you in headspace together.

I wish! I got that MTB/commuter last summer post-her-kidney stone when trail running was still a bit high-impact and stressful for her and the gym wasn't in her price range. I purposefully put platforms on it to begin with because she said she'd come with me on the trail if I did. So, I did that and then she was all "no" about the trail because she had an accident on one once. I suggested quiet streets. She said no to that, too. I said we could ride the paved trails in town (I would haul us there). She was adamant against it. She also hates being outdoors. I can't go to her gym (it is very expensive, getting in and out by car gives me panic attacks, and it has a schedule that is useless to me spin-wise) and even if I did, she just runs on the treadmill which I don't do because of PF and does classes you have to pay extra for (more money), so it's really not an option.

We used to go for walks but she won't do that anymore. Today was the first day we walked anywhere in ages but even then it was non-stop reasons why my SO was awful and why her life was so hard. I just can't with that.

You seem to know some of the reasons for her misery/pain/fears. You might want to use that as a guide in looking at yourself with emotional intelligence and perhaps realizing things about yourself. That way you learn from her rather than having negative thoughts to yourself about her. Chodron is big on looking at situations as teachers.

I'm intrigued. How does this work? Like a specific example? Mental exercises really help me calm down and try to stop SOLVING but instead observe and learn something.

There was some Eeyore thing going around facebook that was something along the lines of, even though Eeyore is clinically depressed, his friends don't try to cheer him up or change him, they include him in their adventures and they don't expect him to be happy about it.

Unless you can have that attitude about her, give yourself some space. You're not doing either of you any good by feeling unhappy about her unhappiness.

That's true. I just wish there was something we could do that would allow for that. The problem is, she has alienated most of our friends. Apart from one couple we hang out with who have been friends with her even longer, most people are fed up with her CONSTANT negativity, the constant "I'm so hideous no man will want me", "I will die alone", and constant picking at everything everyone says. She's become incredibly judgmental of everyone around her all while insisting people should not judge her. So, she's pushed anyone away that we used to hang out with. It's hard to see because I know what she REALLY wants at the end of the day is people to be around her. It's just that she can't stop practicing behaviors that turn people off.

And I've tried the bike, I've tried walking, I've invited her out a million times, etc. Shopping is usually a sure-fire way to win with her but I can't do that with her anymore because she doesn't have the money to spend and neither I do. But she will. She spent like $500.00 she didn't have the other weekend and then complained about not knowing if she'd have funding next year, a job, a place to live, etc. My BF says it's an addiction and that it's like going to a casino with a gambling addict or a bar with an alcoholic. It's just not good. That's how I'm beginning to feel.

If we could just go back to the way things were in April of last year, I'd be happy! Well, not completely because my BF wouldn't be in the picture just yet, but I want my friend back and I know she's hurting right now.