Negativity? Depression? How to make a friendship with doom and gloom?

[colorisnt]

I really am curious how anyone can carry around negativity without it crushing them? I say this as someone who was dx'ed as unipolar depressed (I'm bipolar II and trend towards mania now more than anything). I know what depression feels like but I am not sure that's what I would call this attitude. And I'm not sure what it is.

I live with a roommate who is very, very negative. She's also one of my closest friends and has been for YEARS. I love her to death but I really don't hang around at all anymore. I basically live with my boyfriend and am leaving the place that she and I share this summer to move in with him (no brainer!). She was downright awful all fall, called my parents alcoholics (in an unfounded manner), said my boyfriend was a loser, etc. She eventually apologized and it seemed like we were going to be okay after a bit. I mean, it got to the point that I wanted to move out at one point because I was having panic attacks anytime I was in my place due to her claiming I was "deserting her". I want to continue the friendship and it seemed like we were getting along better but, man, today was nothing but negativity.

I recently received a big grant to do research in Canada and everyone (for the most part) was psyched for me. I am so, so excited about this great opportunity. It's been a lot of work getting here. Anyhow, she took me out to chat with me today and catch up since she just got back from a trip and it was nothing but negativity and "woe is me". Everytime something good happens for her, I cheer her on because I'm her friend but I get nothing from her. Instead, of us chatting and her asking me for advice on roommate hunting, it turned into how I was deserting her again and 101 reasons why my boyfriend is awful and we shouldn't move in together. The reason she hates him (I think) is because he has two kids with his ex and she was abandoned by her father as a kid. He is not like her father AT ALL, mind you, and no one else has a problem with her but she thinks he's all wrong. None of her reasons even make sense. Today it was, "Are you sure he will want to move with you when you graduate?" never mind we had this conversation months ago and it's been shown that he is in full support of my career because my job is far less flexible location-wise.

I feel like all I do is listen to her whine and by silence help support her constant negative attitude. But I don't really know what to do better. She has no coping mechanisms apart from spending tons and tons of cash on clothing and beauty products (money she doesn't have). I don't want to make it worse. I have suggested therapy whenever she has expressed wanting to stop being so negative but she blows it off. I say it from a place of "this really helps me, maybe it could help you" not "you should go to therapy". She admits to having issues (I believe she has OCD like me as well, and she concurs) but just says "that's just how I will always be". It sounds like depression but she has doesn't do anything. And when someone is depressed, all you can do is be supportive, I guess. I want to be her friend because she's been a big part of my adult life and big changes are coming for us. We will both hopefully graduate next year, get jobs, and move away and I think I will be getting married in the next year or two I would love to share this stuff with her but I just feel so depressed and frustrated after talking to her. It's hurting me to talk with her but I feel selfish when I say that. I know she has been with me through tough times too.

This whole thing is compounded, of course, by the fact that we live together and are in the same program.

Any advice in dealing with this?

[Irulan]

Short version: detach with love.

Long version: She sounds really screwed up. I don't know if there is way to stay friends and not have the lifeblood sucked out of you. You can't fix/change other people, you can only fix yourself and how you choose to react or get involved, or not. Being supportive doesn't mean you have to put up with someone treating you poorly, or let them dump on you. I suggest not trying to justify her behaviour to yourself because she's depressed, has unresolved issues, whatever. Depression doesn't ensure that someone has to be negative and whiny and manipulative. If you still want to hang around, you can set boundaries for yourself, "Mary I don't want to listen to you complain about X. We can talk about something different, or I'm going to go get coffee" (or something ) As long as you make yourself available, she will use you.

caveat: I've been in treatment for depression for a good part of my adult life. This is why I don't buy depression as an excuse to be a jerk.

just my two cents.

[Crankin]

I say this as a therapist and as someone with a friend somewhat like this. Not as bad, but with other mental health issues that I cannot deal with anymore.
You are right that depression is intertwined with negative thinking and huge cognitive distortions. But, Irulan said it well. You are enabling her to continue this behavior when you don't set boundaries around what is acceptable. Be clear, use a neutral tone, and then detach. I know some people feel this is "mean," but you need to think about you. Therapy seems to have worked for you, and I wouldn't surround myself with anyone with these traits. I have detached myself from a close relative because of something like this. I just can't take the negativity, and refusal to see the glass half full.

[OakLeaf]

What Irulan said.

I hope this isn't entirely true, I don't really want it to be true, but most of what I've gotten out of years of therapy for double depression is that I'm not so much of a jerk as I used to be (at least I don't think I am ...). I don't know that I really feel any better inside myself, but I've tried to learn what behaviors are "normal" and appropriate and what ones aren't, and therapy has been really important with that. Maybe there's some way you can put it to her that way, I don't know because it doesn't sound all that appealing or worthwhile really, but somehow express that therapy could help her act better even if it doesn't help her feel better?

[shootingstar]

You want friendship don't you? And friendship is a 2 way street. Gently ask for it in a discreet manner and then shorten a visit, etc. if she refuses to adjust her behaviour...to at least make you happy as her friend /being a friend to you.

By the way, do you jog, bike together or some non-competitive sport together? Maybe some companionship in this way while it lets her temporarily enjoy time with you in headspace together.

[rebeccaC]

Personally I’d start spending less time with her. That doesn’t mean deserting her. When I have to deal with a negative person, especially a friend, I try to remember Pema Chodron’s advice to look at it as a way to work on the non-judgmental awareness of my emotions and thoughts.

You seem to know some of the reasons for her misery/pain/fears. You might want to use that as a guide in looking at yourself with emotional intelligence and perhaps realizing things about yourself. That way you learn from her rather than having negative thoughts to yourself about her. Chodron is big on looking at situations as teachers.

Kindness, empathy, strength and forgiveness are better and healthier than feeding the habit of negative emotions in ourselves. Now that doesn’t mean I don’t have irrational moments of just not wanting to deal with someone at times and I allow for that. I do try and encourage the positives in myself though. Time will tell how the relationship works out and if you find your way to get through it in positive way, you and perhaps she will just benefit from that.

[Irulan]

I know, it's easy for me to say, RUN because I'm not in it. But, wow, just wow. This woman has you so manipulated....very toxic. .it's no different than the guy who says, "if you break up with me I will kill myself."

[rebeccaC]

I think I’ll always be a work in progress in letting my reactions and judgments lead me as a teacher to greater self-understanding. Perhaps that’s why I like Pema Chodron’s teachings at this point in my life.

When I begin to feel the negativity of a situation really bothering me one of my strategies is to think of it as teaching me to be still with the discomfort of that energy and challenging me to open to the situation with as much courage and kindness as I possibly can. I find that helps in controlling judgment and strengthening something positive in me rather than strengthening anger/resentment. As Pema writes…”we can live with a dissonant note, we don’t have to play the next key to end the tune”

If this thinking interests you, you may want to read Chodron’s When Things Fall Apart for a number of positive strategies in understanding the teaching opportunities of numerous situations.

[Crankin]

If her behavior was enough stress to cause a manic/hypomanic episode, then, RUN. You seem to have your stuff under control. One of the main treatments for Bipolar Disorder is just to be able to recognize the triggers of hypomania/mania, and avoid them, as well as recognizing the symptoms of an episode.
Have you done any work with Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction? It's a huge part of DBT, which I totally agree with and use with almost all of my clients with mood disorders. You might like it. Ask your therapist.
And, geez, I am glad she thinks I am the same as every other therapist . In fact, the comment I get from a lot of my clients, is that I am not!

[ny biker]

I know, it's easy for me to say, RUN because I'm not in it. But, wow, just wow. This woman has you so manipulated....very toxic. .it's no different than the guy who says, "if you break up with me I will kill myself."

I have to agree with this. This person is not really your friend. It is not your responsibility to take care of her. You can't fix her or solve her problems.

Take care of yourself.

[Irulan]

The problem was that, at that time, if I hadn't "stepped up", she never would have gotten to the hospital, wouldn't have been able to feed herself, woudn't have been able to go to/from her surgery or appointments - nothing. Everyone else had already been so manipulated by her that they were ignoring her or were out of town at the time. Her own mother deserted her. I was able to be there for her.

This is where she shows she is a master manipulator. These people are really smart and resourceful. I'm sure she would have figured something out, even if it meant calling a taxi to get to the hospital or having a nurse come into the house. She mostly like would not have died on the floor or starved to death without you "being there".

[ny biker]

This is where she shows she is a master manipulator. These people are really smart and resourceful. I'm sure she would have figured something out, even if it meant calling a taxi to get to the hospital or having a nurse come into the house. She mostly like would not have died on the floor or starved to death without you "being there".

Again, totally agree.

It can be very hard to walk away from someone that you have had a long relationship with, and it can be hard to say no when you feel the person needs help from someone. But above all, you have to take care of yourself.

[rebeccaC]

Again, totally agree.

It can be very hard to walk away from someone that you have had a long relationship with, and it can be hard to say no when you feel the person needs help from someone. But above all, you have to take care of yourself.

I focused on dealing with negativity because I don’t know a lot about the behavioral, neurological and chemical aspects of depression. I would assume manipulative behavior can be part of managing painful emotions and an indication that the person doesn’t have the skills to deal with it. For a good friend and someone I cared about I’d want professional guidance on the best way to help them without enabling destructive behavior. I’d also look at it as a positive learning experience for me.

[nuliajuk]

I have a relative who has been hospitalized from time to time with paranoia and psychosis. The one thing they discouraged her from doing when she was in the hospital was forming friendships with other patients. Although it seems like a great thing to have a buddy who knows what it's like, the doctors have found over time that people with problems tend to feed each other's problems when they spend too much time together... if that makes any sense.

[colorisnt]

No it absolutely makes sense.

I have a friend with OCD and Bioplar I and while I love and care about him, I find that he sort of "gets off" on having "worse" problems than I do if that makes sense. That's why in the past year, I've kind of pulled away from him. I think it's worse for him to see me when he's not well that it is for me to see him.