Know any women living close to 100 yrs.?

[shootingstar]

In their 60's people start complaining about the quality of life...especially here in the USA. I think other countries are different-especially countries where people work to live and not live to work. Those with better healthcare systems and better family policies at work seem to allow people to age more gracefully and with a better quality of life but here in America? It's hell to be old and unhealthy. Sometimes, it's just hell to be old.

Certainly one's own health is critical to "quality of life". My father has cancer (@83). If we were under the U.S. health care system, I doubt very much he would get the level of oncology specialist care that he is getting now and quickly/frequently: he was a restaurant cook before retiring @65 and no top-up private health care insurance by his employer. (One rarely gets that anyway working in the restaurant business).

It wouldn't be surprising how some people might find it easier not to follow healthier habits especially if they have significant preventable health problems: why bother and suffer @90-100 yrs.?

But I would disagree vehemently and my father is living proof that yes, you could suffer from a terminal disease but at least he has no other health problems to complicate the cancer. (No heart, respiratory problems...because his diet has been healthy all along.)

Most definitely a person does NOT want fall into habits that lead into multiple major health problems simultaneously in very old age. Then suffering is greatly compounded.

[Crankin]

I guess this why people are always amazed @ what I do. I am getting pretty close to the age of those complaining 60 year olds.

[OakLeaf]

See though, I'm not talking about complainers or sedentary people. Mostly it's just the opposite - active people who put a brave, happy public face on everything, who've made the comment to me in a quiet, private moment. The quantity and technical expertise of their health care doesn't seem to make much difference in their quality of life, either, not when they have serious chronic degenerative conditions. There's the kind of health care I'm getting, that hopefully will keep some minor pinched nerves in a healthy active person from becoming serious or chronic ... and then there's the kind of health care my dad is getting, substituting one type of agony for another and stripping him of dignity and control.

At least the ones who are still working are the ones who still have something to live for...

[spokewench]

Great Grandma lived to 101 on my Dad's side. Grandma, on my Mom's side lived to 98. Dad lived to 93; mom's still kickin at 86. So, looks like I might be one! Yikes, that is going to be a long time!

[Kiwi Stoker]

However I think things have improved. I had a talk to my Dad last month about getting older (I was ribbing him about how close I was to a significant birthday) and he said "being in my 60s isn't so bad. I remember when my grandfather was 65 and he was like a really old man- had to use a walking stick, was totally white haired and ill. I'm now in my 60s and I'm building houses, walking, going overseas and enjoying life. Being in your 60s 50 years ago is like being in your 80s now".

I gave him a big hug after that.

[malkin]

... I guess that gives me a lottery of sorts. ... Weird, huh?

For all of us, life is fragile or remarkably resilliant.
You just never know until you get to the end of the story.

[Crankin]

I still would try to be positive, even if I had a terrible chronic thing that was hard to treat. It's just not in my DNA to be gloomy about this. But, based on my mom's experience, (a terrible life threatening disease that ended in a failed liver transplant), she was positive until the end. She was and still is my role model. At one point they hospitalized her, to get her higher up on the list for the transplant. She actually was not as sick as she was "pretending" to be, and spent the time participating in a program where she helped teach medical students and residents good "bedside manner" and listening skills.
That's how I want to approach anything that comes my way.

[salsabike]

See though, I'm not talking about complainers or sedentary people. Mostly it's just the opposite - active people who put a brave, happy public face on everything, who've made the comment to me in a quiet, private moment. The quantity and technical expertise of their health care doesn't seem to make much difference in their quality of life, either, not when they have serious chronic degenerative conditions. There's the kind of health care I'm getting, that hopefully will keep some minor pinched nerves in a healthy active person from becoming serious or chronic ... and then there's the kind of health care my dad is getting, substituting one type of agony for another and stripping him of dignity and control.

At least the ones who are still working are the ones who still have something to live for...

Thank you, OakLeaf. I think being aware of this, and saying so, is really important. Much appreciated.

[Jiffer]

My Grandma is turning 93 or 94 soon. She's been ready to "go" for some time, but living on her own (with some help) and doing pretty good. My dad thinks she'll outlive us all!

[shootingstar]

Oak, it's true that no matter how sophisticated the health treatment maybe, a person will still suffer. And this is what one dreads for an afflicted family member.

However, I think you know it doesn't serve alot of great purpose to buttonhole a person with a terminal disease to say that they will suffer alot when the patient is already /has been trying to live healthy all along.

Over 15 years ago, I bought a watercolour painting from an artist I admired for a long time. I was amazed when I went to 1 of the gallery showings for her work and spoke with her: she was single all her life, an artist and teacher of art in Toronto (where I lived) for 40 years of life, travelled worldwide and painted. Sat in the snow in the Arctic and painted fantastic glacier watercolours. She also did ice skating on her own pond up into her 70's...with maneouvres on 1 leg. She had an enthusiastic following locally.

at the time I spoke with her, she was 90. She wore an Indian tunic with gold high heels...totally atypical of her style..a gently devout Christian, etc. She led a pretty healthy lifestyle which included hiking since she did alot of landscapes and in her writings she talks about what she eats.

She passed away at 101 last year. For certain, she lived an incredibly full life and produced an amazing amount of art, including 2 autobiographies.

[OakLeaf]

I think you know it doesn't serve alot of great purpose to buttonhole a person with a terminal disease to say that they will suffer alot when the patient is already /has been trying to live healthy all along.

That wasn't my point (although I think it's important to acknowledge that healthy living isn't a magical amulet against suffering).

I don't want to belabor this excessively, but these two articles say a lot - the first one, both in what it says and in what it leaves unsaid; the second one, on that increasingly popular theme of a doctor who has to face the reality of what his profession is doing to its patients, and is horrified by it.

It really reinforces my impression that in modern American society, a vanishingly small number of people are willing to take responsibility for their own mortality. They just wait passively for it to happen to them ... or spend prodigious physical, emotional, family and financial resources on the assumption that if they only spend enough, it never will. I find that both sad and terribly frustrating.

[lph]

Those were very interesting articles, Oak, especially the one about "invoking hospice", as a way of achieving calm. It reminded me a little of when my son had to have a sudden minor operation. The hospital wanted him to spend the night afterwards, in a hot, noisy, shared room where he got no rest or sleep at all until I begged for us to be allowed to sleep in the waiting room, which was empty and quiet. I couldn't help thinking that hospital routines were great for the staff but pretty terrible for aiding a quick and natural recovery from minor stuff.

But I wondered about the first one. What kind of response were they expecting or hoping for? I'm a firm believer in modern medicine and will staunchly defend it in most situations, but there's only so much you can predict about how long a person has left, isn't there? It seems to me that only sensible response to "how long will you live" is exactly that - "I don't know."

[OakLeaf]

But I wondered about the first one. What kind of response were they expecting or hoping for? ... there's only so much you can predict about how long a person has left, isn't there? It seems to me that only sensible response to "how long will you live" is exactly that - "I don't know."

For me and hopefully for you, that's absolutely right. But the population in the study was people who qualified for hospice. And the choice that glaringly absent from the survey was any choice that took an active role.

I've already done some hard thinking and writing about what is and is not an acceptable quality of life for me. IMO every adult should do that, because it's healthy young people who have the most uncertainty about when a sudden trauma or acute illness could permanently deprive them of quality of life. It's an individual decision and one that people can have extreme differences about. But when an individual has decided that she's "ready to go" - which is difficult enough to admit in our culture - it's just sad when cultural or family pressures deprive them of the option.

[shootingstar]

It is difficult for each of us to face our mortality and take steps to plan well in advance, many years in advance. Unfortunately (or fortunately) my sister who is a doctor, probably will end up fielding simple layperson's questions from her own family. She has advised that at the very least, to name a trusted individual (legally) for power concerning one's own health care, should one becomes unable to make decision.

And it requires financial planning well in advance by the patient to get some paid care where there maybe gaps in services that no single health care service can properly cover. It truly amazes me when I read about the growing trend (at least in Canada) retired parents loaning huge amounts of money/remortgaging their home to their children, etc. Have they even considered covering the cost of their own health care and accommodation near the end of life?

My partner's mother did request 15 years (when she was healthy) before she died, that no heroic efforts for saving her if her brain didn't function (or something similar).

She died in her sleep at night when her heart ran out.. in the nursing home. By coincidence or maybe subconscious, she just met with some relatives 1 wk. before who were visiting vacationing in western Canada after flying from Germany.

We are glad she saw them /vice versa.

It makes one wonder if a person/patient had the right/ability to name hospice care in advance, if that will cause an avalanche of backlog requests to the health care system, in terms of some professionals to provide support. I don't get the powerful impression that hospice care is an area that is even cohesive in terms of services. It seems to be abit niched for certain major terminal illnesses. But what do I know. EAch jurisdiction is different.

[salsabike]

That wasn't my point (although I think it's important to acknowledge that healthy living isn't a magical amulet against suffering).

I don't want to belabor this excessively, but these two articles say a lot - the first one, both in what it says and in what it leaves unsaid; the second one, on that increasingly popular theme of a doctor who has to face the reality of what his profession is doing to its patients, and is horrified by it.

It really reinforces my impression that in modern American society, a vanishingly small number of people are willing to take responsibility for their own mortality. They just wait passively for it to happen to them ... or spend prodigious physical, emotional, family and financial resources on the assumption that if they only spend enough, it never will. I find that both sad and terribly frustrating.

I passionately agree with this, given so much of what I've seen. I think what people BELIEVE they will experience, and what they DO experience, can vary much more than many people are willing to consider. And if you don't consider it in advance, your choices can suddenly become very limited, at a time when it is incredibly important that your voice be the primary focus.