Gov't Assistance: WIC, food stamps

[ehirsch83]

You don't know what that section 8 person's financial situation is like. You also don't know if they own the car outright from before or what.

My disabled family member that I help gets 900 a month, period. You try buying food, paying utilities and rent on that. Never mind a bus pass, a bag of food for your pet, and a few other non-necessities that aren't luxuries. Rent, $500 a month ( and that's low income housing) and utils can top $150 in winter.

Irulan- first of all- if they owned the car outright from before and it was worth anything- the responsible thing to do would be to sell it, go by an older car (so say you sell your SUV for 25k if it is in new shape, you buy an older car but with under 80,000 miles for 5 grand- you then put 20k in the bank and save on gas)

If they are making payments on it- the responsible thing would be to let it go back and put that money towards your family.


Then on the section 8 is housing assistance- it does not encompass other financial assistance towards living- so the fact that they are getting $800 a month in just housing assistance is astronomical.

[Irulan]

Irulan- first of all- if they owned the car outright from before and it was worth anything- the responsible thing to do would be to sell it, go by an older car (so say you sell your SUV for 25k if it is in new shape, you buy an older car but with under 80,000 miles for 5 grand- you then put 20k in the bank and save on gas)

If they are making payments on it- the responsible thing would be to let it go back and put that money towards your family.


Then on the section 8 is housing assistance- it does not encompass other financial assistance towards living- so the fact that they are getting $800 a month in just housing assistance is astronomical.

Some people are ignorant. Some make other choices. Some aren't very smart. Just because you or I think someone ought to do something a certain way doesn't make it so.

[goldfinch]

Sometimes people hear a story, which often isn't verified, of someone who seems to not deserve public assistance but gets it anyone. They then may hear another story. And before you know it they have a generalized belief that there is something really wrong with the system and the system is full of loopholes and full of cheaters. As a result pushes are made to make it more difficult to get assistance and those who really need it end up without it. I want substantiated evidence before we make public policy decisions. I don't trust the anecdotes.

There are huge gaps in our safety net in the US. For example, if you are not disabled or do not have children there may very well be nothing for you at all, depending where you live. No medical assistance. Certainly no cash assistance. Maybe, just maybe, foodstamps. It is not enough to be poor and without assets to be eligible for most forms of assistance.

And even if you have children there are all sorts of restrictions on assistance, especially cash assistance. It is limited as to time and you must do things to get yourself employed. People get cut off after five years and no one keeps track of what happens to them.

Far too many fall through the cracks, in part because we are so worried someone might get something they do not deserve.

I retired early and have sufficient assets to live on. I and my spouse have enough health issues that we are not insurable. The only place we can get insurance is through our state's risk pool. Not every state has a risk pool. In many states we simply could not buy insurance at any price or the insurance would be totally inadequate and outrageously priced. We reside in a state with about the best risk pool around, Minnesota. Our premiums for health insurance total about $1000 a month. We each have a $5000 deductible. My husband just bought insulin and test strips, he paid $760. There is no generic insulin. Can you imagine being less than upper middleclass and be without health insurance? We pay often in excess of $20,000 a year on health care.

And people yell and scream about how horrible a national health care system would be.

I worry far less about cheats than I do about the raw deal the poor and the lower and middle class Americans have in our country right now.

[zoom-zoom]

Goldfinch, you bring up good points. My sister and her boys get screwed by the system. Her youngest is autistic. If she earns above the poverty line she loses her son's therapy. Because she ends up unable to work a decent paying, full-time job she lives without health insurance. Her boys' health care is covered, but if she were to get sick or injured it would be financially devastating.

She is engaged to a long-time boyfriend...the only father her boys have really ever known. Now if the 2 of them earn too much they all suffer. Neither she or her husband-to-be can make too much, otherwise her son loses the therapy. Her future husband will also not have health care covered.

[Kiwi Stoker]

Hair braids etc could be done by a family member or a friend for free (wanting to pratcise).

I think sometimes it's really hard to make judgements about people unless you know them very well. I mean some problems you won't even see- like mental illness for example. Or cannot work because of seizures or being partially sighted (not all blind people walk around with non-foccusing eyes and sunglasses).

Yes everyone in the work has a touch of greed in them and will know how to "work" the system. The rich do it, the poor do it and sometimes even the middle class. Who doesn't want something for nothing? I don't think any system can be perfect- look at communism- it had all the good intentions in the world (spread the wealth, don't have wealthy elite) and that didn't work. I think everything is a compromise and we can only hope that people don't slip through the crcks. But of course they do.

[shootingstar]

I am certain that when I was unemployed and cycling daily up to 2 hrs. for my own mental health, people could have judged me immediately by my cycling jacket, shoes, shorts and (dirty) bike, helmet for looking "higher" income than the welfare stereotype.

But little would anyone know that:

*bike was 4 yrs. old
*and helmet, jacket, stuff was at least 2-5 yrs. old.

What is even more upsetting than some individuals cheating the system in terms of benefits, are large corporations who hire tax lawyer and accountant who provide advice on how to legitimately avoid paying hundreds of thousands of $$$ corporate tax to government --annually. Through complicated, esoteric tax planning structures that require technical analysis of Income Tax Act (Canada) or Internal Revenue Code (US). It's legitimate too, folks. It's big business for the Big 4 international accounting firms.

I could tell you of the resources we had for a firm I worked, on off-shore countries and their tax laws for paying...less corporate tax. (I was a tax law librarian once upon a time.)

[salsabike]

Hair braids etc could be done by a family member or a friend for free (wanting to pratcise).

I think sometimes it's really hard to make judgements about people unless you know them very well. I mean some problems you won't even see- like mental illness for example. Or cannot work because of seizures or being partially sighted (not all blind people walk around with non-foccusing eyes and sunglasses).

Yes everyone in the work has a touch of greed in them and will know how to "work" the system. The rich do it, the poor do it and sometimes even the middle class. Who doesn't want something for nothing? I don't think any system can be perfect- look at communism- it had all the good intentions in the world (spread the wealth, don't have wealthy elite) and that didn't work. I think everything is a compromise and we can only hope that people don't slip through the crcks. But of course they do.

Well said!

[Miranda]

Skimming this thread, will hafta go back and re-read it when I don't have a headache. But it makes me mad.

We were very poor when I was a kid and did receive some assistance. We did not have anything showy. We truly needed the help. Sometimes we didn't get the help, and church somehow randomly came thru.

We have some blended into the family relatives that drive those nicer vehicles mentioned in this thread and get their illigetimate, illegal children fully paid for with Medicaid, and what not... while I'm paying more for our rx meds we need out of pocket with insurance coverage... which total more than my monthly mortgage payment... it's a stretch to make the ends meet... much less be able to "afford" what the the free (well, I'm paying for that too) health care the relatives have.

[withm]

My mother was right - you just can't make any assumptions about someone else's financial situation. You don't know the facts and once you start counting your neighbor's money it really says something about yourself.

[goldfinch]

I wish people wouldn't refer to kids as illegitimate. Or illegal for that matter.
People who are in this country illegally are not eligible for medicaid. They can get emergency room treatment to point of stabilization at a hospital.

[BodhiTree]

I grew up very poor. Father in prison, mother in a coma for months, and everything else you'd expect to see in a bad soap opera.

My friends gave me clothes, my mom's friends gave us places to stay and later loaned her a car, a church we didn't even belong to gave us food. We got free lunch at school.

We didn't look "bad" from the outside.

I try very hard as an adult not to judge. Sometimes I see things that get me angry and seem unfair. "Why do they get all this help from the government, while we got so little and had to rely on friends and charity?" "Why am I paying so much in taxes while those people get free stuff I can't afford myself?"

1. Life isn't fair.

2. Sometimes what looks ok from the outside actually sucks from the inside.

Balance those two out for yourself. If you are truly made miserable over a free-lunch child riding in an SUV to school, report it. If it's no skin off your nose, let it go.

Life is too short to waste your time carrying anger.

[PamNY]

I grew up very poor. Father in prison, mother in a coma for months, and everything else you'd expect to see in a bad soap opera.

My friends gave me clothes, my mom's friends gave us places to stay and later loaned her a car, a church we didn't even belong to gave us food. We got free lunch at school.

We didn't look "bad" from the outside.

I try very hard as an adult not to judge. Sometimes I see things that get me angry and seem unfair. "Why do they get all this help from the government, while we got so little and had to rely on friends and charity?" "Why am I paying so much in taxes while those people get free stuff I can't afford myself?"

1. Life isn't fair.

2. Sometimes what looks ok from the outside actually sucks from the inside.

Balance those two out for yourself. If you are truly made miserable over a free-lunch child riding in an SUV to school, report it. If it's no skin off your nose, let it go.

Life is too short to waste your time carrying anger.

Wise advice.

Goldfinch, I agree about the term "illegitimate."

[salsabike]

We didn't look "bad" from the outside.

I try very hard as an adult not to judge. Sometimes I see things that get me angry and seem unfair. "Why do they get all this help from the government, while we got so little and had to rely on friends and charity?" "Why am I paying so much in taxes while those people get free stuff I can't afford myself?"

1. Life isn't fair.

2. Sometimes what looks ok from the outside actually sucks from the inside.

Balance those two out for yourself. If you are truly made miserable over a free-lunch child riding in an SUV to school, report it. If it's no skin off your nose, let it go.

Life is too short to waste your time carrying anger.

Wise advice.

Goldfinch, I agree about the term "illegitimate."

Yes. Ditto to all of that.

[jelee1311]

I think this is a very interesting thread I see this first hand everyday I work for a grocery store.I think WIC is a fantastic program,kind of a pain because a lot of people don't understand how the program works so we spend time making sure it is followed. But I know these people are getting proper nutrition unlike food stamps that allows its recipients to buy candy,soda,and get this- RedBull. I think the system is very flawed and frustrating the people trying to help themselves aren't allowed to and the local Tattoo parlor takes EBT cards?!?I don't judge people that use EBT I just don't get it when they buy steak and lobster and then treat me rudely while I'm checking out their order. Aren't I the one paying for their dinner? As for free school lunches right now I'm trying to figure out a way to get my daughters school to donate the leftover 1percent milk to a local homeless shelter. The kids won't drink it since they don't allow chocolate milk in their food program anymore so it gets thrown away.

[Crankin]

One thing I've learned is not to judge, as other here have stated. I know I feel actual physical pain for my clients when I hear what they are dealing with, in terms of having enough food, paying for clothes, etc.
But, I get really mad when I hear some of you describing situations where you are paying more for health insurance than your mortgage. What's wrong with this country?
When my son graduated from college, he had a job without benefits. He made about 40K a year, so not poverty, but not a lot to live in Boston. We told him he *had* to have health insurance. So, because of the horrible mandated health insurance act we have in Massachusetts, the state was able to connect him to a very good Blue Cross plan for 200.00 a month. Did he like paying that? No. But he did have to use it a few times and was very glad he had it. He didn't qualify for Mass Health benefits that my clients get, but there was a safety net. A lot of his friends refused to buy the insurance and hoped that they didn't get sick or the state didn't find out and fine (tax) them. This is what our Supreme Court is fighting about right now. I took the mandate seriously, and I never would have let my son try to get out of having insurance. I've had enough medical things, to know that it's not an option. Why do we think it's OK to let people suffer?