Gov't Assistance: WIC, food stamps

[goldfinch]

Sometimes people hear a story, which often isn't verified, of someone who seems to not deserve public assistance but gets it anyone. They then may hear another story. And before you know it they have a generalized belief that there is something really wrong with the system and the system is full of loopholes and full of cheaters. As a result pushes are made to make it more difficult to get assistance and those who really need it end up without it. I want substantiated evidence before we make public policy decisions. I don't trust the anecdotes.

There are huge gaps in our safety net in the US. For example, if you are not disabled or do not have children there may very well be nothing for you at all, depending where you live. No medical assistance. Certainly no cash assistance. Maybe, just maybe, foodstamps. It is not enough to be poor and without assets to be eligible for most forms of assistance.

And even if you have children there are all sorts of restrictions on assistance, especially cash assistance. It is limited as to time and you must do things to get yourself employed. People get cut off after five years and no one keeps track of what happens to them.

Far too many fall through the cracks, in part because we are so worried someone might get something they do not deserve.

I retired early and have sufficient assets to live on. I and my spouse have enough health issues that we are not insurable. The only place we can get insurance is through our state's risk pool. Not every state has a risk pool. In many states we simply could not buy insurance at any price or the insurance would be totally inadequate and outrageously priced. We reside in a state with about the best risk pool around, Minnesota. Our premiums for health insurance total about $1000 a month. We each have a $5000 deductible. My husband just bought insulin and test strips, he paid $760. There is no generic insulin. Can you imagine being less than upper middleclass and be without health insurance? We pay often in excess of $20,000 a year on health care.

And people yell and scream about how horrible a national health care system would be.

I worry far less about cheats than I do about the raw deal the poor and the lower and middle class Americans have in our country right now.

[zoom-zoom]

Goldfinch, you bring up good points. My sister and her boys get screwed by the system. Her youngest is autistic. If she earns above the poverty line she loses her son's therapy. Because she ends up unable to work a decent paying, full-time job she lives without health insurance. Her boys' health care is covered, but if she were to get sick or injured it would be financially devastating.

She is engaged to a long-time boyfriend...the only father her boys have really ever known. Now if the 2 of them earn too much they all suffer. Neither she or her husband-to-be can make too much, otherwise her son loses the therapy. Her future husband will also not have health care covered.

[Kiwi Stoker]

Hair braids etc could be done by a family member or a friend for free (wanting to pratcise).

I think sometimes it's really hard to make judgements about people unless you know them very well. I mean some problems you won't even see- like mental illness for example. Or cannot work because of seizures or being partially sighted (not all blind people walk around with non-foccusing eyes and sunglasses).

Yes everyone in the work has a touch of greed in them and will know how to "work" the system. The rich do it, the poor do it and sometimes even the middle class. Who doesn't want something for nothing? I don't think any system can be perfect- look at communism- it had all the good intentions in the world (spread the wealth, don't have wealthy elite) and that didn't work. I think everything is a compromise and we can only hope that people don't slip through the crcks. But of course they do.

[shootingstar]

I am certain that when I was unemployed and cycling daily up to 2 hrs. for my own mental health, people could have judged me immediately by my cycling jacket, shoes, shorts and (dirty) bike, helmet for looking "higher" income than the welfare stereotype.

But little would anyone know that:

*bike was 4 yrs. old
*and helmet, jacket, stuff was at least 2-5 yrs. old.

What is even more upsetting than some individuals cheating the system in terms of benefits, are large corporations who hire tax lawyer and accountant who provide advice on how to legitimately avoid paying hundreds of thousands of $$$ corporate tax to government --annually. Through complicated, esoteric tax planning structures that require technical analysis of Income Tax Act (Canada) or Internal Revenue Code (US). It's legitimate too, folks. It's big business for the Big 4 international accounting firms.

I could tell you of the resources we had for a firm I worked, on off-shore countries and their tax laws for paying...less corporate tax. (I was a tax law librarian once upon a time.)

[Miranda]

Skimming this thread, will hafta go back and re-read it when I don't have a headache. But it makes me mad.

We were very poor when I was a kid and did receive some assistance. We did not have anything showy. We truly needed the help. Sometimes we didn't get the help, and church somehow randomly came thru.

We have some blended into the family relatives that drive those nicer vehicles mentioned in this thread and get their illigetimate, illegal children fully paid for with Medicaid, and what not... while I'm paying more for our rx meds we need out of pocket with insurance coverage... which total more than my monthly mortgage payment... it's a stretch to make the ends meet... much less be able to "afford" what the the free (well, I'm paying for that too) health care the relatives have.

[withm]

My mother was right - you just can't make any assumptions about someone else's financial situation. You don't know the facts and once you start counting your neighbor's money it really says something about yourself.

[goldfinch]

I wish people wouldn't refer to kids as illegitimate. Or illegal for that matter.
People who are in this country illegally are not eligible for medicaid. They can get emergency room treatment to point of stabilization at a hospital.

[BodhiTree]

I grew up very poor. Father in prison, mother in a coma for months, and everything else you'd expect to see in a bad soap opera.

My friends gave me clothes, my mom's friends gave us places to stay and later loaned her a car, a church we didn't even belong to gave us food. We got free lunch at school.

We didn't look "bad" from the outside.

I try very hard as an adult not to judge. Sometimes I see things that get me angry and seem unfair. "Why do they get all this help from the government, while we got so little and had to rely on friends and charity?" "Why am I paying so much in taxes while those people get free stuff I can't afford myself?"

1. Life isn't fair.

2. Sometimes what looks ok from the outside actually sucks from the inside.

Balance those two out for yourself. If you are truly made miserable over a free-lunch child riding in an SUV to school, report it. If it's no skin off your nose, let it go.

Life is too short to waste your time carrying anger.

[salsabike]

Hair braids etc could be done by a family member or a friend for free (wanting to pratcise).

I think sometimes it's really hard to make judgements about people unless you know them very well. I mean some problems you won't even see- like mental illness for example. Or cannot work because of seizures or being partially sighted (not all blind people walk around with non-foccusing eyes and sunglasses).

Yes everyone in the work has a touch of greed in them and will know how to "work" the system. The rich do it, the poor do it and sometimes even the middle class. Who doesn't want something for nothing? I don't think any system can be perfect- look at communism- it had all the good intentions in the world (spread the wealth, don't have wealthy elite) and that didn't work. I think everything is a compromise and we can only hope that people don't slip through the crcks. But of course they do.

Well said!

[Veronica]

Hair braids etc could be done by a family member or a friend for free (wanting to pratcise).

Could be, but they're not. This is one of my students whom I've had for two years and we talk. Her latest set took 5 hours to complete.

I know this is the Internet and all and very few of you really know me, but I'm not jumping to conclusions when I write something about my students. And it distresses me that my observations are taken to indicate a lack of compassion. Having grown up poor, I know what it's like and I take my job as a teacher very seriously. Part of that means letting them them know that a "free" lunch really isn't free and shouldn't be taken for granted and thought of as right. Oh and I guess because they're poor, I really shouldn't chide them for having Cheetos as snack either.

We're studying the American Revolution currently and you should hear the conversations in my class about taxes...

Veronica

[Atlas]

Could be, but they're not. This is one of my students whom I've had for two years and we talk. Her latest set took 5 hours to complete.

I know this is the Internet and all and very few of you really know me, but I'm not jumping to conclusions when I write something about my students. And it distresses me that my observations are taken to indicate a lack of compassion. Having grown up poor, I know what it's like and I take my job as a teacher very seriously. Part of that means letting them them know that a "free" lunch really isn't free and shouldn't be taken for granted and thought of as right. Oh and I guess because they're poor, I really shouldn't chide them for having Cheetos as snack either.

What do you suggest we do? Cut all those programs so no one can benefit? There will always be people who scam things, but for all the anecdotes I'm sure there are twice as many people who are grateful for those safety nets and don't outwardly say that. The family you're talking about could very well be scamming the whole system, I don't know and I don't really mind because there are a lot more people who are benefiting. Just because I don't need those services now doesn't mean I won't in the future and I'm happy to pay into them. It'd be ideal if no one ripped off a well intended program but that's not human nature.

[PamNY]

Sometimes people hear a story, which often isn't verified, of someone who seems to not deserve public assistance but gets it anyone. They then may hear another story. And before you know it they have a generalized belief that there is something really wrong with the system and the system is full of loopholes and full of cheaters.

That really is true.

I'm fascinated that people will use a very few (or even one) examples of bad behavior to make a sweeping negative generalization. A story about a teenager who committed a crime leads to ain't-it-awful discussions bewailing how terrible young people are.

Yet a story about the Intel science award winners does not lead to extensive discussion about how smart, committed and energetic young people are.

I'm sure there are people who cheat in every area of life.