Cycling goals ruining friendship

[limewave]

Where to start?

When I started riding I was very competitive. I did a lot of group rides with "the guys" who always tried to drop me. It was my goal to stay with them longer until one day, shazaam!, they couldn't shake me.

Then I had kids. I still rode, but with dd in the trailer bike. I found a new friend, "Sarah" to ride with. She is slower, takes a lot of breaks. It's been nice having her to ride with in the interim.

But, now my schedule has freed up and I can sneak out in the daytime. I've signed up for some late-summer and fall races this year. I'm working on dropping some weight and getting my body in shape.

I mentioned this to Sarah. Since she's her own boss, she decided she's going to sneak out so we can ride together. In fact, she's started an email list of everyone we know and is coordinating tri-weekly daytime ride schedules.

Here's the problem (it's multi-faceted): Sarah is very competitive. She wants to be fast. And she's very sensitive (HATES, LOATHES BEING DROPPED). But she's not as fast as I am, nor does she have the endurance or the drive. So when we're riding, we're taking lots of breaks. And, because she's coordinated these rides with a group of people, it takes so much more time out of my work day than I originally planned. For example, last Friday we drove over an hour each way to ride 7 miles of single-track (when I could have driven 15 minutes to ride 15 miles of single track in less time).

I do like riding with Sarah. She is a good friend. But I have very limited time to train. I have to make every (or at least most of them) workout count. I don't want to ride for 1.5 miles of trail then take a 5 minute break before doing the next 1.5 miles. I want to go as hard as I can and not worry about someone's feelings being hurt.

What a cunundrum. I didn't want to keep my riding a secret. But I didn't expect her to "take it over." And if I do a ride on my own, her feelings will be hurt that I didn't invite her. I've seen this happen before with her. She has a vendetta against 2 other friends of mine because they dropped her on a group ride. She doesn't like riding with them because she gets dropped, but then she's also mad if they don't invite her. ???

Riding is a sport to me, a game. Getting dropped is part of the deal. It's what pushes me to work harder, push myself to the limits. Sarah doesn't have that same personality . . . I think it's more social for her? I don't understand exactly where she's coming from being that she wants to race and be fast. How can you get faster if you don't push yourself?

A rock and a hard place.

[MartianDestiny]

Definitely a rock and a hard place.

It sounds like you are going to have to find a way to ride some on your own and go hard and some with her and just "hang out" (recovery rides). If she can't gracefully accept a "I have some training rides with set goals that I just really need to do alone, but I really like riding with you so let's still ride X, X, and X together" then that's her problem.

I always get dropped, yes, it hacks me off (insert nastier word ), but with myself, and if I'm not riding with people that drop me I'm not motivated.

I love riding with my shop owner as he's super amazing at knowing *just* when I'm going to pop and keeping me there without dropping me (and then of course 50 feet from the agreed upon "finish line" totally creaming my arse). Loads of fun and really tells me where I need to work. BUT, if she's not going to think that's fun (and it doesn't sound like she will) then it can't help either of you, which is unfortunate.

I have a friend that is slower than me and doesn't want to race. When I ride with her I attack the hills and then soft pedal the downhills until she catches up, rinse and repeat. When we get to a long flatish section we chat and pedal normally. But she has no problems realizing that I'm stronger on the hills than she is and that I want that exercise where she just wants to pedal up them in a lower gear.

[limewave]

I always get dropped, yes, it hacks me off (insert nastier word ), but with myself, and if I'm not riding with people that drop me I'm not motivated.

I love riding with my shop owner as he's super amazing at knowing *just* when I'm going to pop and keeping me there without dropping me (and then of course 50 feet from the agreed upon "finish line" totally creaming my arse). Loads of fun and really tells me where I need to work.

Sounds like we would ride well together--as that is my idea of fun too

I love riding with DH but it doesn't happen often as we have to get a babysitter.

He'll ride out for set time and I ride out for 15 minutes longer than his set time. When he catches me on the way back he'll pace me, really pushing me to my limits. It's a lot of fun.

If we do a road ride, he'll zig-zag the route, adding 1/4-1/2 mile increments to his ride. When he does that, I'll go as hard as I can and he tries to catch back up. Then we'll soft pedal for awhile and chat. It's fun and we both get in our workouts.

[shootingstar]

Cycling for you should remain an enjoyable de-stressor. Always.

Presumably she has no young kids? Still, it might be worth just explaining casually about your personal schedule to juggle things that need to be done vs. what cycling means in the mix of all this. Approach it lightly with always an offer of friendship. But no reason to stop riding with the other cycling friends.

You can't change someone like her at this stage in her life. She may have not yet realized that she is a more social rider.

Or you can consider occasionally to ride just with her in a less competitive manner.

You will change also. Time will tell... but right now your personal schedule is tighter.

[shootingstar]

By the way, don't use the term "social" rider on Sarah.

Remember randonneur riders are social riders too...they just ride fast and blab along.

I don't describe myself as a 'social' rider at all. Not a true recreational rider since my whole lifestyle is cycling-oriented.
Those 2 'types' of riders suggest the wrong stereotype of as unfocused, non-fitness cycling. Give us regular cyclists all a break!

So remember, to cut Sarah some slack. She considers her riding fitness and riding hard also. Just wondering if she enjoys cycling solo and can stay fit, motivated. Some of us can.

[limewave]

Shootingstar--you make a good point.

I guess the difference between Sarah and I is more in training style and level of abilities. I just wish she would understand that I enjoy training a different way than her and to not be offended when I pursue that. But you are right, at this point, that is probably not going to happen.

And no, she has no children.

[Jiffer]

I agree with what's been said so far. You need to talk to her. Tell her you have different goals and would like to work out some rides to do with her, but that you will be doing other rides on her own. There's nothing you can do about how she will respond. If she is truly a good friend, she will understand, even if it hurts a little. If she gets mad at you, maybe she's not such a good friend after all.

When my much stronger husband rides with me (and usually my friend), he usually pulls the entire time. This gives him more of a workout (even if not as much as he would get with a faster group or alone) and helps us ride faster than we might have ridden. Does your friend draft?

Sometimes my husband will choose to ride with us when wants to do a recovery ride. And, like others have mentioned, he'll ride hard up a hill and wait for us, or put it in his big ring and pedal in a super slow cadence which works his muscles differently. He finds other ways to challenge himself. However, most of his rides are with his faster riding buddies, and that's totally fine with me. Luckily, I am blessed with a riding parter and good friend who I am very compatible with. She is much faster than me on the hills, unless it's a short climb that I can attack or fairly low grade. This drives me crazy, of course, but it also pushes me to work harder. I am a stronger rider because of it. I have had to let go of the frustration of always being the last one up the hill. I am a faster climber than a lot of people, just not the people I most often ride with.

Like I said, if she is a good friend and you are sensitive in how you present yourself, she will understand. If she doesn't, you should maybe look for a new friend anyway.

[Pedal Wench]

When I was training for a race this winter, I would just let people know MY ride plans - "I'm riding at 10am from X location, pace will be xx mph, and I'm going for 80 miles. Let me know if you can make it." That way, I get in exactly what I need, and if anyone wants to show up, they can.

If your friend has planned a ride that doesn't fit your schedule, you simply can tell her that doesn't fit into your training program.

[kermit]

Thats a tough spot to be in. I have gotten so used to riding by myself that it's hard to ride with others. It my "ME" time. I would gracefully bow out of a couple of her organized rides and do your own thing when you want. If she finds out, well, you have a training plan and your own goals. If you do go on an occasional ride with her, you can sacrifice a little time to hang with your friend and not feel cheated to yourself. That's just my suggestion. There's always the middle of the ride "excuse me, I feel like hammering" that my husband occasionally throws in when he takes off.

[shootingstar]

It feels as if Sarah has not truly discovered what she skills she is particularily strong in the area of cycling.

The comparison by benchmarking oneself in terms of combined speed and endurance to stay with a group should not be the only benchmark. Has Sarah ever met someone who rides solo alot but has ridden across a country solo also nearly every day to complete the trip?

My partner is like that...he's not one of the guys hammering it out with regular guy friends. He rides solo or with me. Occasionally with groups. He has done long distance, self-supported tour group rides.

He has cycled with, panniers and trailer solo twice across Canada and U.S. Then in New Zealand. We have to see abit beyond hammerhead guys that we see riding in packs in their team kits without additional pannier weight. Sheer strength and stamina is required to cycle 80-100 kms. every day for 45 days straight, with at least 10 days in mountain regions ..because one's plane ticket was already booked at the bike end destination. No shirking here and not for slackers/'recreational" riders.

It is so easy to judge other cyclists on the surface. Sarah is allowing herself to be sucked into that type of thinking: faster, must be better. SHe needs to be gently reminded cycling endurance and strength comes in different flavours.

[lph]

I'm thinking you should maybe go easy on talking about the different goals and different speeds etc you have if she's competitive, and just try bringing up how you really enjoy riding on your own. If she has kids too that may help her understand. I'm known as that much of a loner that if someone asks "hey, shall we do this or that together?" I can say "sorry, not today, I need/want to ride on my own today, how about Thursday", and then I can make Thursday the social occasion. It's not about being anti-social or not liking her company, just enjoying all of other things that go with doing things on your own, freedom, concentration, time to focus and think, being free to get really cranky or upset without bothering anyone else

Funny, I have the feeling men don't have to have these conversations that much. There isn't really any reason you should have to defend wanting to do something on your own instead of with a group of people.

[Crankin]

I have to say I agree with everyone, including Shootingstar. Two things struck me. One, I am Sarah. I am not training, but I choose riding buddies carefully, because if they drop me, I get mad and frustrated. I've been known to cry during rides because of this. I don't need the breaks, but I now know who I can ride with and still feel good about myself. It's a constant battle between accepting the fact that I have become a little slower and the fact that I am fitter than 95% of people my age. I'm comparing myself with you guys! Yet, seeing someone whom I think I can drop gets me angry enough to try once in awhile. Frankly most of the time, I just ride alone or with my DH or with our friends. My closest riding friends (women) are both much, much slower than me. My rides with them are just as enjoyable. I just wait at the top of a hill. DH rides at my speed when he is with me; if he has the urge to go "faster" than he can go alone. I don't enjoy constantly trying to catch him, or being alone on a ride where we are supposed to be together.
The part about her getting mad is just immature. She needs to accept her level of skill and find people who are at that level.

[tangentgirl]

You know, whether it's about cycling or basketweaving, this whole "having a vendetta" thing against friends sucks. You shouldn't have to tiptoe around friends. You shouldn't have to worry that they will be jealous if you ride alone sometimes. That's kind of ridiculous.

[ny biker]

You know, whether it's about cycling or basketweaving, this whole "having a vendetta" thing against friends sucks. You shouldn't have to tiptoe around friends. You shouldn't have to worry that they will be jealous if you ride alone sometimes. That's kind of ridiculous.

That's what I'm thinking.

Maybe you should plan a real training ride that meets your goals (the right location and distance for you) and then just tell her, you're doing this ride but it needs to be a training ride so your goal will be x miles/hour and you will only be stopping x times (or after x miles), and she's welcome to come along. Then if she wants to join you, she comes along and you stick to your plan. But if she gets angry, either because you're not doing her group ride or because she rides with you and wants to stop but you refuse or she gets angry that you dropped her etc. etc., then you don't own that issue.

[Skierchickie]

I can relate pretty well with what lph said - been there.

As hard as it is, I think you'll have to just stand up for your "me" time, if you are committed to your goals. She's made this harder for you, by pre-scheduling your life for you. Fortunately, if this is turning into a regular group outing, you may be able to ease out of it easier than if it were just the two of you. Maybe you can try to meet them once a week, and use it as a recovery day, without coming across as saying "you're too slow". Hopefully, if your friend is getting other people involved, the pressure will be lifted from you.

Personally, I think driving time that eats into valuable riding time is grounds to say "Thanks, but I can't make it". I'm a poor one to talk - I have several friends who like to ski/bike/run in groups, and I prefer to be alone, or with one other person at a time - not in a group. I end up trying to avoid them sometimes, because I'd just rather be alone. I really like them all, and have fun with them, but something in my wiring makes me avoid groups.

Good luck. You are in a sticky situation. Tangentgirl is absolutely correct.