Cyclists cause 10% of car-bike accidents

[Eden]

OK then - hands in the air those of us who have been hit by cars.....

I haven't said much about it here, but my hand is up. MMQFC - anyone else?

OK - how many of us caused our own accidents - hmmmm is that crickets I hear.....

I personally was hit by a driver (uninsured of course) who failed to yield when making a left hand turn across traffic. I was going straight through a green light, the driver was facing me, was not paying enough attention and turned. Indeed I was paying attention and did take as much action as I could, but in the end I was already in the intersection and could not avoid any incident at all. I was lucky to have not been severely injured. Had I been unconscious the accident surely would have been blamed on me. Even as it was she was "sure" that I must have been on the sidewalk and crossed against the "don't walk" - which was completely bogus of course and not only was I able to tell my own story there were several witnesses - if you see a car coming at you do scream at them..... not only will it hopefully get their attention, it makes everyone else around look too...

Most cyclists - even those who may not act like perfect little angels in traffic (and face it, neither do drivers - I see more of them running stop signs and red lights and speeding than I do cyclists) understand their own vulnerabilities. Even, perhaps especially, the non law abiding ones are very aware of their surroundings. That's not to say I'm excusing bad behavior - the rules of the road are there for a reason and having everyone be predictable is a good thing. It also gives motorists an excuse to take out their frustrations on us, which is never a good thing, but I don't believe it is a major cause of accidents.

Most of the severe accidents - at very least the ones that make the news around here are entirely not the fault of the cyclist - they are mostly drunken drivers, doorings or left or right hooks. Even one several years ago now, that I know of that is questionable cannot be entirely blamed on the cyclist - the road markings led the cyclist into danger - he was following a right hand bike lane that went up to an intersection when he was run over by a concrete truck making a right hand turn. Yes, he should have been watching for traffic crossing his lane, but he was also fairly unfamiliar with the area - having just come here to attend college. The bike lane offered a very false sense of security. The driver bears some responsibility there too - he did turn across a traffic lane without being sure it was clear, but I'm willing to give him some lee way as I know the area and I know how quickly a cyclist can appear (it is one block from a corner).

In any case of the 10 or so serious or fatal accidents I know about recently only one was clearly a non-law abiding cyclist. There was one case of a cyclist running a stop and being hit. The other 9 were caused by the motorist, which certainly seems to bear out the Toronto doctor's study.

[redrhodie]

OK then - hands in the air those of us who have been hit by cars.....

I haven't said much about it here, but my hand is up. MMQFC - anyone else?

OK - how many of us caused our own accidents - hmmmm is that crickets I hear.....

Me. I was hit by a car door when I was 14. I think it was as much my fault as the lady who opened the door. She should have looked, and I shouldn't have been riding in the door zone. I take half the responsibility.

[bmccasland]

On our MS training ride this morning we were warned that the Sheriff's Dept in the Parish we'd be riding in would be enforcing the new 3 ft law for cyclist safety, AND enforcing traffic safety laws as well - no 3 abrest, STOP at the stop signs. So we get some protection, but are expected to be good and compliant citizens as well. I saw an unmarked car strategically placed on a long up-hill climb of a busy highway watching us come up the hill, as I finally approached, the officer (in uniform) did a subtle wave.

On the other hand - I came close to becoming a hood ornament of a marked Sheriff's car running with emergency lights enroute I suppose to the "traffic stop" I had just passed where there were 2 other deputies. Said responding officer was running hot in the oncoming lane to pass a truck pulling a boat that wouldn't pull over to the shoulder. Nothing quite like seeing a car heading right towards you, emergency lights or no. At least I had a shoulder to move over to. I know it wasn't really THAT close, but it sure seemed that way. And apparently seemed so to the pace line that caught up with me shortly there after.

[Eden]

Me. I was hit by a car door when I was 14. I think it was as much my fault as the lady who opened the door. She should have looked, and I shouldn't have been riding in the door zone. I take half the responsibility.

While indeed you should not ride in the door zone, in this state at least, it is entirely the responsibility of the person in the vehicle to be sure no one will hit their door when they open it. (this is not limited to cyclists - if you open your car door into another car is would be the same). Some of our cycling "facilities", bike lanes and the like around here will actually put you squarely in the door zone if you choose to use them...... fortunately in this state it is a choice - we are not required to use bike lanes when they are present.

[redrhodie]

While indeed you should not ride in the door zone, in this state at least, it is entirely the responsibility of the person in the vehicle to be sure no one will hit their door when they open it. (this is not limited to cyclists - if you open your car door into another car is would be the same). Some of our cycling "facilities", bike lanes and the like around here will actually put you squarely in the door zone if you choose to use them...... fortunately in this state it is a choice - we are not required to use bike lanes when they are present.

Oh, yeah, legally she was to blame. She paid my medical expenses. I'm speaking more of the it's my job as a cyclist to avoid every crash or I'm to blame theory I ride by. There would be very few crashes where I wouldn't feel somewhat responsible since it's my job to ride in a way that I don't get hit. Techniques explained in "The Art of Urban Cycling" by Robert Hurst. The book is somewhat controversial, just so you know, definitely not for everyone, but I'm a believer.

[Eden]

Oh, yeah, legally she was to blame. She paid my medical expenses. I'm speaking more of the it's my job as a cyclist to avoid every crash or I'm to blame theory I ride by. There would be very few crashes where I wouldn't feel somewhat responsible since it's my job to ride in a way that I don't get hit. Techniques explained in "The Art of Urban Cycling" by Robert Hurst. The book is somewhat controversial, just so you know, definitely not for everyone, but I'm a believer.

Hmmmmm - I'm not willing to take any responsibility for the person who hit me... She was not paying attention, she failed to yield, she was driving without insurance. I'm not going to give her any outs. I wasn't severely hurt or killed because I was paying attention and I was, if not able to totally avoid the collision, at least able to mitigate the consequences. What should I be expected to do - stop and wait on a green light if someone because someone is going to make a left and might not be bothered to look and see anything that is not a car.... I think that we are waaaaaaay to lax with drivers in this country. We are so enamored with car culture that we don't accept that drivers have EXTRA responsibility to safely pilot the dangerous vehicles that they have been give the privilege of being licensed for. I use my bicycle quite vehicularly - I don't do things that are dangerous just to please motorists and believe you me I recognize my own vulnerability, but I am not willing to give motorists a pass just because they are bigger. It's like excusing the kid on the playground who punches another kid by saying he can't help himself and its better to just stay out of his way.....

[Biciclista]

I'm a bit too tired to respond well to this thread tonight;
but Marybee, we're not talking about Bikes wiping out alone, we're specifically talking about bike/car crashes.

So you can take your 50% biker's fault study somewhere else, it does not apply specifically to this conversation.

[witeowl]

I'm a bit too tired to respond well to this thread tonight;
but Marybee, we're not talking about Bikes wiping out alone, we're specifically talking about bike/car crashes.

So you can take your 50% biker's fault study somewhere else, it does not apply specifically to this conversation.

I think you need a nap.

Pardon me for saying so, but your post here seems a bit harsher than you probably intend. I think that her post is much more on point than many "thread drift" incidents I see around here.

Disagree, sure, but the tone of this response is a little uncalled for.

I think that the main point of marybee's post is more than valid. I mean, really, how many times do you shake your head at the boneheaded move some idiot on a bike pulls? I do it all the time. Most of the time I'm angry because the putz is reinforcing negative stereotypes... but just as often I'm shaking my head at unnecessary risks that I'm convinced will get the jackass killed. Or paralyzed.

We can't hit the streets knowing that 90% of the time it's someone else's fault. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. We have to continue to ride as if everyone buffered behind a steel cage doesn't see us and doesn't care about hitting us.

[marybee]

I'm a bit too tired to respond well to this thread tonight;
but Marybee, we're not talking about Bikes wiping out alone, we're specifically talking about bike/car crashes.

So you can take your 50% biker's fault study somewhere else, it does not apply specifically to this conversation.

MRRRRRAAEEEOOOWWWWWW!



Seriously, the only reason I mention that is that there are many reasons cyclists crash. Some are related to cars, others are not. I hear so much ... dare I say it?.. whining on the part of cyclists. It bothers me. Because whine all you want about car drivers, the BEST way to protect yourself on the road is to become a safer, more aware, pro-active, visible and smart cyclist. All the whining in the world is not going to change the behavior of car drivers. The only thing YOU can change is YOURSELF. That seems so obvious to me.
Given a choice of legally being next to a parked car and getting doored, or pulling out a few feet and not getting doored, I'll take a latter option any time. The satisfaction of pointing fingers does not outweigh the pain of recovery from a crash.
OK, let the flaming begin.

[redrhodie]

Hmmmmm - I'm not willing to take any responsibility for the person who hit me... She was not paying attention, she failed to yield, she was driving without insurance. I'm not going to give her any outs. I wasn't severely hurt or killed because I was paying attention and I was if not able to totally avoid the collision at least able to mitigate the consequences. I think that we are waaaaaaay to lax with drivers in this country. We are so enamored with car culture that we don't accept that drivers have EXTRA responsibility to safely pilot the dangerous vehicles that they have been give the privilege of being licensed for. I use my bicycle quite vehicularly - I don't do things that are dangerous just to please motorists and believe you me I recognize my own vulnerability, but I am not willing to give motorists a pass just because they are bigger. It's like excusing the kid on the playground who punches another kid by saying he can't help himself and its better to just stay out of his way.....

Oh, no, I don't think bad drivers should be given a pass at all. That's not what I'm saying. Just since we are not in control of how anyone else is driving or riding, we must take extra care of ourselves. Sometimes that means giving up your right of way. Maybe that is giving the car a pass, but I see it as giving myself the security of getting where I want to go in one piece. I see it as outsmarting the bully.

[Eden]

Oh, no, I don't think bad drivers should be given a pass at all. That's not what I'm saying. Just since we are not in control of how anyone else is driving or riding, we must take extra care of ourselves. Sometimes that means giving up your right of way. Maybe that is giving the car a pass, but I see it as giving myself the security of getting where I want to go in one piece. I see it as outsmarting the bully.

She made a left across my path after I had already entered the intersection.... it was pretty cut and dry that she did something that she should not have. I do believe in being alert and keeping a close eye on other traffic and its kept me from having any serious interactions with cars for 25+ years until just two months ago. Yes, you cannot control the way others drive, and I do believe that you can do a great deal to keep yourself safe but I also think its completely bogus to just say oh well I'm small and vulnerable, if someone hits me I should just accept that it was my fault for being there. NO - it was not my fault - roads have never been the exclusive province of the motor vehicle and motorists need to accept much more responsibility than they do. They are the ones who have the most capacity to cause harm, so they should bear the most responsibility to conduct themselves safely. Just because that is not what actually does happen doesn't mean that it should not be that way, nor does it mean that we should not work towards it actually happening. Yes, I totally believe in never trust a driver and always be alert and ready to react, put your own safety before anything else, but I am not willing to blame cyclists for collisions that I think cars are responsible for just because they are smaller and more vulnerable and I'm not willing to say well this is the way it is and it just can't change, so accept it. I want change - I want laws that mean more driver responsibility - I want laws that remove licensing from poor drivers.

[kfergos]

OK then - hands in the air those of us who have been hit by cars.....

I haven't said much about it here, but my hand is up. MMQFC - anyone else?

OK - how many of us caused our own accidents - hmmmm is that crickets I hear.....

I was hit by a car and I caused my own accident. It was in my first 6 months of biking as an adult. I was in Worcester, MA, riding one mile from my work to the train station. I rode, at the time, on the sidewalk and in this case it was on the wrong side of the road to boot. It was dusk. I did have blinky light (I think), but it wasn't very powerful. I crossed into an intersection and was hit by a car turning right. I doubt the driver even saw me. He looked for cars on the road and never expected a fast-moving vehicle on the sidewalk. (Now that I think about it, I'm not 100% sure it's legal to ride on the sidewalk in Worcester -- I know some cities do ban riding bikes on sidewalks.)

After that, I took some LAB bike classes, started riding my bike like I drive a car (slow and predictable ), and haven't been hit in 15,000 miles.

Edited to add: Having read the rest of the thread, I have a couple comments.
1. Bicyclists clearly have to be proactive about riding defensively to protect themselves as much as possible from harm caused by negligent drivers.
2. Is this the way it should be? No. Drivers, particularly irresponsible drivers who text or talk on their cell phones while driving, should absolutely be held responsible for causing collisions with bicyclists.
3. Unfortunately, we can't force drivers to drive safely around us. We can work on better driver and bicyclist education, so everybody knows what they should be doing -- I've had innumerable drivers tell me to "get off the road" or "get on the sidewalk," showing terrifying ignorance on their part; but on the other hand, I've also seen all too many cyclists riding the wrong way, riding without lights, riding on sidewalks, etc., again showing their ignorance -- and meanwhile ride defensively.

Q: Do you think requiring a drivers to pass a driver's test every 10 years, or maybe every 5 years after the age of 65, or something like that, would help? Also, would requiring something like a bicyclist's license for cyclists riding on the road help ensure bicyclists at least know their rights & responsibilities?

[MM_QFC!]

OK then - hands in the air those of us who have been hit by cars.....

I haven't said much about it here, but my hand is up. MMQFC - anyone else?

OK - how many of us caused our own accidents - hmmmm is that crickets I hear.....

Hey Eden - yep, got both of my hands waving in the air here! Am still recovering from the injuries caused by the driver who crashed her car right into me. Police report has her admittedly speeding, but not paying any attention to where she was driving, as she was also reaching into the back seat to play with her 2 yr old nephew and, oh yeah, she said that she knew the brakes on the car she was driving (she wasn't the registered owner nor the policyholder) were in need of repair.

I was on my bike, in a crosswalk at the intersection of a MUT with a cross street; all other vehicles were stopped and she pulled out into the empty traffic lane, instead of stopping. She has a record of multiple criminal cases and traffic infractions and ended up agreeing to a plea of reckless driving and reckless endangerment, so she had a traffic ticket (failing to yield) and some court costs to pay, plus these guilty convictions added to her record; that's it: no injuries, no other consequences.

Yes, I'm grateful to have survived this...however, the pile of consequences, injuries, costs, painful aftermath and recovery all seem overwhelmingly unilateral to my way of thinking!

Nope, no issue in my situation about me contributing even a tiny bit to causing this crash; the driver who hit/hurt me and my friend and destroyed our bikes and lives is 100% at fault, as this was TOTALLY avoidable and unnecessary.