Cyclists cause 10% of car-bike accidents

[Biciclista]

I'm a bit too tired to respond well to this thread tonight;
but Marybee, we're not talking about Bikes wiping out alone, we're specifically talking about bike/car crashes.

So you can take your 50% biker's fault study somewhere else, it does not apply specifically to this conversation.

[witeowl]

I'm a bit too tired to respond well to this thread tonight;
but Marybee, we're not talking about Bikes wiping out alone, we're specifically talking about bike/car crashes.

So you can take your 50% biker's fault study somewhere else, it does not apply specifically to this conversation.

I think you need a nap.

Pardon me for saying so, but your post here seems a bit harsher than you probably intend. I think that her post is much more on point than many "thread drift" incidents I see around here.

Disagree, sure, but the tone of this response is a little uncalled for.

I think that the main point of marybee's post is more than valid. I mean, really, how many times do you shake your head at the boneheaded move some idiot on a bike pulls? I do it all the time. Most of the time I'm angry because the putz is reinforcing negative stereotypes... but just as often I'm shaking my head at unnecessary risks that I'm convinced will get the jackass killed. Or paralyzed.

We can't hit the streets knowing that 90% of the time it's someone else's fault. It doesn't matter whose fault it is. We have to continue to ride as if everyone buffered behind a steel cage doesn't see us and doesn't care about hitting us.

[marybee]

I'm a bit too tired to respond well to this thread tonight;
but Marybee, we're not talking about Bikes wiping out alone, we're specifically talking about bike/car crashes.

So you can take your 50% biker's fault study somewhere else, it does not apply specifically to this conversation.

MRRRRRAAEEEOOOWWWWWW!



Seriously, the only reason I mention that is that there are many reasons cyclists crash. Some are related to cars, others are not. I hear so much ... dare I say it?.. whining on the part of cyclists. It bothers me. Because whine all you want about car drivers, the BEST way to protect yourself on the road is to become a safer, more aware, pro-active, visible and smart cyclist. All the whining in the world is not going to change the behavior of car drivers. The only thing YOU can change is YOURSELF. That seems so obvious to me.
Given a choice of legally being next to a parked car and getting doored, or pulling out a few feet and not getting doored, I'll take a latter option any time. The satisfaction of pointing fingers does not outweigh the pain of recovery from a crash.
OK, let the flaming begin.

[OakLeaf]

A 12-year-old policy statement from the Federal Highway Administration:

A crash is not an accident.

Changing the way we think about events and the words we use to describe them affects the way we behave. Motor vehicle crashes occur "when a link or several links in the chain" are broken. Continued use of the word "accident" implies that these events are outside human influence or control. In reality, they are predictable results of specific actions.

Since we can identify the causes of crashes, we can take action to alter the effect and avoid collisions. These are not Acts of God but predictable results of the laws of physics.

The concept of "accident" works against bringing all appropriate resources to bear on the enormous problem of highway collisions. Use of "accident" fosters the idea that the resulting damage and injuries are unavoidable.

"Crash," "collision," and "injury" are more appropriate terms, and we encourage their use as substitutes for "accident."

Along with the Department's Research and Special Programs Administration, the Federal Highway Administration has joined the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in declaring that the word "accident" will no longer be used in materials we publish, in speeches or other statements, or in communications with the media and others.

Or, more colloquially, the old rhyme supposedly appearing on a tombstone:

Here lies the body of Jonathan Day,
Who died protecting his right-of-way.
He was dead right as he rolled along.
He's just as dead as if he'd been wrong.

[Eden]

OK, let the flaming begin.

Have you read anything I've said...... after all that now, I do actually find your smug attitude pretty sickening. Have you ever been hit by a car? Do you think it was your fault?

Doorings, while preventable certainly do not account for the majority of bike/car collisions. While we very much do need to take care of ourselves and work to be as safe and visible as possible, we also need to never let go of holding motorists accountable for their actions. This country is very much in love with the automobile and we allow far more leeway than we ever should about allowing dangerous people to continue driving. People like you who give motorists an excuse when they kill and maim other road users are part of the problem.

[Biciclista]

I apologize to all for my bad attitude yesterday. I feel better this morning, thank you.

HOWEVER, I posted this article for a very important reason. There is a very strange phenomenon that occurs EVERY SINGLE TIME someone is KILLED by a car/bike accident and subsequently reported in the news. Immediately following one of these deaths is a host of letters to the editor AND on line forums that say "Cyclists should obey the law; etc, ad nauseum" This broadsides me every single time and puts me on the defense. While in fact, many of the cyclists I've known that were killed were SAFETY ACTIVISTS and were the last people I could imagine blowing red lights and all the other things that bad cyclists do. and sure, there's a possibility that they had a momentary lapse, but it's 90% more likely that it was the motorist!
I was happy to find that there was some scientific evidence that backs this up.


This is why I was surprised to hear all this other junk from you guys.
carry on.
and Thanks EDEN for taking the torch.

[witeowl]

HOWEVER, I posted this article for a very important reason. There is a very strange phenomenon that occurs EVERY SINGLE TIME someone is KILLED by a car/bike accident and subsequently reported in the news. Immediately following one of these deaths is a host of letters to the editor AND on line forums that say "Cyclists should obey the law; etc, ad nauseum" This broadsides me every single time and puts me on the defense. While in fact, many of the cyclists I've known that were killed were SAFETY ACTIVISTS and were the last people I could imagine blowing red lights and all the other things that bad cyclists do. and sure, there's a possibility that they had a momentary lapse, but it's 90% more likely that it was the motorist!

That's an excellent point, and it explains your sensitivity. The problem here is that you're preaching to the choir. Which leaves the question: How do we promote this information into the greater community?

[OakLeaf]

Everyone take a deep breath.

"Fault" and "responsibility" are not synonyms.

Rarely, there are collisions that one party was completely powerless to prevent. The fact that they're rare doesn't make them any less devastating when they do happen. Maybe even more so.

Because of the speed differential between cars and bicis, left-turners are probably high on the list. It's pretty easy for a motorcyclist to avoid getting hit by a left-turner. Not so much for bicis, who may have entered the intersection well before the left-turner even approaches it, and who don't have the power to accelerate fast enough to complete the crossing ahead of the car.

The fact that there is such a thing as a collision that one party was powerless to prevent, doesn't obviate anyone's responsibility for anything. The fact that one party is at fault in a collision, doesn't obviate the fact that the other party usually could still have prevented it. "Usually" is not the same as "always." But it's a long, long way from "never."