Back-to-Back Century rides...

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

Wow - thanks everybody!
This is encouraging!

I have a ride on the 25th that'll be about a month before Tulsa Tough. I just signed up for 68, but if I do that on Saturday and do another on Sunday, I'll have a good base (and bench) for the coming month. Because of our weird weather, I've done one "long" of 50 so far, but I haven't done any long back-to-backs yet. I don't consider 30's b2b as long. But... they were good training....brutal winds.. good for bike handling skills, right?

All your advise sounds great! I REALLY appreciate this support! The getting-to-bed early thing I'm sure will help. Eating lots... okay... but what do I eat? I'm talking meals off the bike (before and after/inbetween days). I assume I shouldn't just eat anything and call it good. hamburger/fries count? Should I go to Olive Garden or something? buttermilk pancakes in the am? Triple egg omlette? I know I need to make sure to get good protein after the ride and quick access fuel the morning of... nothing heavy. yes?

I started using Hammer products this season - Heet, Perpeteum, and Recoverite. I also like to take Accel gels or Sport Beans for extra fuel on the bike (for longer than 3hr rides). Maybe I should start packing PB&Js for the really long rides coming up? I'll pack extra Perpeteum in my jersey too.

I sure won't worry about counting calories on Tulsa Tough, or my long training days. Great thing about TT is that its here in my hometown and I get to go home to rest inbetween centuries. The whole event is a big festival. There'll be lots of opportunity to hang out, etc.

You guys really help me feel like this is actually do-able! Isn't that insane? LOL When I tell people about last year's century (one day), one guy asked how many days it took me, others just look at me like its crazy and I must be lying. You know.. I want to do it if for no other reason that its a great way to see your State! I've lived here most my life and I don't think I'd ever been to some of the towns I rode through on last year's century. It was a beautiful ride.

I've ridden much of the route from the second day/century of TT. I did the 100K route and the 100M leg goes over much of my Wednesday Night Ride route (except backwards - which is a b*tch...even harder). So.. now I already know the terrain of both days. Nothing will be a surprise or scary. Well.. I take that back. There is one hill on day 2 which pitches up to 15%..not sure how long it is , but it sure seemed to go on forever. Maybe avg grade of 8.. I've done it before though so I know I can do it again. I just don't have to like it. LOL

[indysteel]

I think it's completely doable.

As for what foods to eat, I would focus on getting a good mix of carbs and protein, as well as a little fat. Try to get something into your system immediately after the ride ends on that first day. Chocolate milk is my go to post-ride "meal," but anything with a mix of carbs and protein will work, e.g., a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Pair it with a 20 plus ounces of water. Eat a bit of salt, too, especially if it's hot out. Then eat a filling dinner.

During the ride, eat what sits well with you. e.g., Simple carbs, bananas, trail mix (or anything with a bit of salt). I use a top tube bag for long rides and bring with me something cut up in small bites (Payday candy bars are my snack of choice) that I can easily graze on in between rest stops. For breakfast on either day, again go for things that your stomach easily tolerates. I usually stick to fruit, yogurt and oatmeal. Pancakes, toast, and the like will do to. My stomach doesn't react as well to lots of protein before or during a ride, but every person is different.

From my experience, as long as I eat filling meals and at regular intervals on the bike, I have enough fuel. It's dehydration that will get to me first. So my advice is to drink, drink, and then drink some more.

Good luck and be sure to give us a full report after the ride.

[sundial]

Indy, would a Camelbak work for these long rides? Just thinking out loud.

[indysteel]

Indy, would a Camelbak work for these long rides? Just thinking out loud.

IMO, it depends on how frequent the scheduled stops are. I can usually get by fluidwise on organized rides with two 20 oz. water bottles. Assuming the stops on the Tulsa ride are every 25-30 miles, I don't think you need a Camelback unless it's really hot.

I usually use water in one bottle and Cytomax in the other. I often bring some extra Cytomax powder with me since Gatorade doesn't agree with me and, in any event, not all organized rides offer it. I luckily found an an online source that sells Cytomax in serving size packets. Before that, I used to just measure it out into Ziploc baggies, which proved to be kind of messy.

At the risk of repeating myself, I think rehydration has to continue after the ride ends and before the next one begins. Prior to going to bed on after first night of the Horsey, I make sure I'm expelling a good volume and that the urine is virtually clear. That's a good sign I'm rehydrated. Then first thing the following morning, I down another big glass of water. It makes for frequent potty breaks, but I'd rather do that then (figuratively) crash mid-ride. In fact, I start every morning ride with a big glass of water.

Another thing I've learned is to make sure to drink during the lunch stop. When I did the Ride Across Indiana (that's 160 mile one day ride) the first time, I make the mistake of only eating during lunch. I barely touched my water bottle. Well, that was a half hour with little to no fluid. By ride's end, I could tell that I was starting to suffer from dehydration. So, the first thing I do at any lunch stop is to down some extra water and sports drink. Then I eat.

All of this sounds really intuitive, I know, but it actually take some discipline to stay on top of hydration and hunger during long rides. All other things being equal, it can make the difference between a successful and fun ride and a sufferfest.

[Vireo]

I often do back to back days since my training has to be done in blocks. I have my son 50% of the time and so I train ONLY when I don't have him with me. That means a block of Wed-Sunday. I've also done races and events that are 2 days and much more as in Race Across America. While my advice may not work for you it works for me and maybe some of the other members on this forum.

But first some questions:

1. How many calories are you taking in pre-ride?

2. How many calories are you taking in during the ride? Specifically how many per hour?

3. How much do you weigh?

4. What type of fuel are you using? All liquid? Liquid and solids?

5. What is your typical post ride routine? Specifically how many calories do you take in and what type of foods are they?

6. What recovery strategy do you have for your legs?

7. What will be provided at the event? Can or should you bring your own nutrition and just use the water provided?

8. How long does it take for you to do a century?

9. Are there large groups where you might have the benefit of drafting especially the second day.

10. What is the elevation gain? A century with 10k of gain is a much higher caloric expenditure than a century with 3k of gain.

And now just a freebie-- What is your favorite decadent food?

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

Thanks for any advice you can give! I appreciate you sharing any experience you have. I'll try it!

1. I haven't had a prescribed plan for pre-ride eating (I know.not great)...so it varies depending on what day it is (after work?, weekend ride?). If I'm riding after work, then I dont have much other than my lunch still in me when I start and I don't generally eat heavy lunches (usually under 400cal). Weekend rides give me a little more latitude... can eat a bigger breakfast (more carbs - maybe 500-700cal), or a 'heavier' lunch (about same cals). But.. I really haven't tried for a certain amount..just basically ate more (blindly) thinking it'd be better for energy to eat more than just my Frosted Mini Wheats.

2. I'm probably not taking in enough during my usual rides. Perpeteum is 166cal per serving and Heet is only 100. Accel Gel or Sport Beans is 100. I usually only take in one of each during a longer training ride (50)

3. Right now, I weigh 152 (5'7")..but I'm still trying to lose. I want to get increase my power-to-weight ratio... Makes climbing easier.. My "Lose It!" iPhone app gives me a calorie target w/o exercise.. but when I add exercise, it gives me an estimated increase in the amount of calories to keep my weight loss goal in sight. Example..without exercise, my daily target is just under 1300.. but if I add a 2hr ride of 14-15.9mph avg, it gives me about 1350 more to eat. So far, I've lost 8lbs..slowly(slow is good)... we're talking 2mos. My program was 'thrown' for a couple weeks b/c of some gastric issues lately.

4. For rides less than 2hrs, just liquids (HEET and water). Over 2 hrs, I try to take some kind of solid food,but since I haven't gone really long yet, I'm still just using Sport Beans to supplement my liquids (water, Perpeteum..and sometimes Accel Gel too). I haven't really done any targeted training yet.. Just starting and getting good advice.

5. Post Ride Routine is to drink a serving of Recoverite ASAP after ride. Get home (if not already there) and eat "real" food, drink more water. I try to take in as many calories (net of what was eaten on bike) to replace what I used riding. I estimate that with my iPhone "Lose it!" app or my Garmin705. I'm sure they aren't incredibly accurate, but don't have a better way to estimate it. I try to take in proteins (chicken usually, or nuts..sometimes fish), and carbs (pasta or rice)...with assorted veggies..and some fats (cheese). Sometimes I allow myself to be "bad" after a good longer ride.

6. I don't think I really have a recovery strategy for my legs. I suppose walking and stretching would be good, but I don't really have a 'program' per se to drain the lactic acid.

7. TT is really well supported. They have water, ice, Powerade, and lots of fruit.. also usually some kind of Sweet-N-Salty bar (that brand) to eat at every rest stop. I can bring my own too, but its not really necessary with all the food they have (unless I just want something else). Ive taken Accel Gel or Sport Beans to supplement in yrs past. Some rest stops have stuff like mini pb sandwiches... Those were golden to me by mile 60. Sooo good.

8. I did the 2008 Saturday Tulsa Tough century in 7hrs...prob my best 100mile time of all my centuries. That was my first century in about 12yrs though.

9. Last year, I did much of the first day by myself, but did catch some draft from some GREAT folks in a riding club from Springfield MO for about 20miles(mile 65-85). They were a life saver b/c we were heading right into the wind. So..my answer is yes.. occasionally a group will pass through that don't mind if I tag along.

10. Saturday = 5200ft, Sunday = 5900ft

FREEBIE - favorite decadent dessert is the Bread Pudding from TeiKei's in Tulsa.

I often do back to back days since my training has to be done in blocks. I have my son 50% of the time and so I train ONLY when I don't have him with me. That means a block of Wed-Sunday. I've also done races and events that are 2 days and much more as in Race Across America. While my advice may not work for you it works for me and maybe some of the other members on this forum.

But first some questions:

1. How many calories are you taking in pre-ride?

2. How many calories are you taking in during the ride? Specifically how many per hour?

3. How much do you weigh?

4. What type of fuel are you using? All liquid? Liquid and solids?

5. What is your typical post ride routine? Specifically how many calories do you take in and what type of foods are they?

6. What recovery strategy do you have for your legs?

7. What will be provided at the event? Can or should you bring your own nutrition and just use the water provided?

8. How long does it take for you to do a century?

9. Are there large groups where you might have the benefit of drafting especially the second day.

10. What is the elevation gain? A century with 10k of gain is a much higher caloric expenditure than a century with 3k of gain.

And now just a freebie-- What is your favorite decadent food?

[Vireo]

Thanks for any advice you can give! I appreciate you sharing any experience you have. I'll try it!

1. How many calories are you taking in pre-ride?

1. I haven't had a prescribed plan for pre-ride eating (I know.not great)...so it varies depending on what day it is (after work?, weekend ride?). If I'm riding after work, then I dont have much other than my lunch still in me when I start and I don't generally eat heavy lunches (usually under 400cal). Weekend rides give me a little more latitude... can eat a bigger breakfast (more carbs - maybe 500-700cal), or a 'heavier' lunch (about same cals). But.. I really haven't tried for a certain amount..just basically ate more (blindly) thinking it'd be better for energy to eat more than just my Frosted Mini Wheats.

What works for me (WWFM) - Depending on the length of the ride and how early I want to wake up I may have the following:

short ride (50 miles or less) AND no time before riding: Nothing BUT I start eating as soon as I'm on the bike.

short ride AND short time before riding: PB&J toast.

medium ride (50-100 miles) and medium time: PB%J Toast and scrambled eggs (Brandy makes great scrambled eggs-- trust me you can screw this up or Oatmeal and eggs

Long ride (100+ day) AND long time: Oatmeal, eggs, and PB&J.

I recommend waiting about 1 hour for every 500 calories you take in before riding. Just a ballpark but you need to experiment with that. If you are burping up your b-fast in the first hour or so you didn't wait long enough. Sounds to me that you are not consuming enough calories before you ride. Please stay away from sugars before you ride.

2. How many calories are you taking in during the ride? Specifically how many per hour?

2. I'm probably not taking in enough during my usual rides. Perpeteum is 166cal per serving and Heet is only 100. Accel Gel or Sport Beans is 100. I usually only take in one of each during a longer training ride (50)

You should be taking in at least 250 calories an hour. You really need to experiment with this. From your weight below we weigh the same. When Brandy and I ride together I have to stay on top of her to fuel. So on the top of the hour and the bottom of the hour (eg 7am 730am 8am) I make her take a gel. When you take a gel, wash it down with a few swigs of your liquid fuel. Two gels (100 calories each), a couple of swigs and your normal drinking should put you at 250cals without any thinking or effort. In addition, if you finish your bottle (20-24 oz) bottle every 60-75 mins you will be well on your way to avg'ing 250-300 calories an hour.

If you want to be riding strong in the 4th hour of your event you need to fueling in the 2nd and 3rd hour of your event. Seems obvious but it is such a common mistake riders make. You see riders whose pace slows down or they spend too long at a rest stop because they are near bonking.

3. How much do you weigh?

3. Right now, I weigh 152 (5'7")..but I'm still trying to lose. I want to get increase my power-to-weight ratio... Makes climbing easier.. My "Lose It!" iPhone app gives me a calorie target w/o exercise.. but when I add exercise, it gives me an estimated increase in the amount of calories to keep my weight loss goal in sight. Example..without exercise, my daily target is just under 1300.. but if I add a 2hr ride of 14-15.9mph avg, it gives me about 1350 more to eat. So far, I've lost 8lbs..slowly(slow is good)... we're talking 2mos. My program was 'thrown' for a couple weeks b/c of some gastric issues lately.


The calorie consumption calculations seems a little high (675 cal/hr) at 16mph . Let's use this calculatoR


Your weight 152lbs = 69 kg


69kg x 8.1 (factor for 16mph) = 558 cals/hr


558 cals x 6.25 hours (100 miles/ 16 mph)= 3,487 calories


250 cal/hr x 6.25 (ride time) = 1,562 calories consumed on the bike


3487 calories expended - 1562 calories consumed= 1,925 calories that needs to be replenished


1925 calories is the deficit that makes it hard to do back to back centuries




4. What type of fuel are you using? All liquid? Liquid and solids?

4. For rides less than 2hrs, just liquids (HEET and water). Over 2 hrs, I try to take some kind of solid food,but since I haven't gone really long yet, I'm still just using Sport Beans to supplement my liquids (water, Perpeteum..and sometimes Accel Gel too). I haven't really done any targeted training yet.. Just starting and getting good advice.

I see you have mentioned Hammer a few times already. May I make a suggestion? If you are using Hammer then stick with Hammer. Their philosophy is no simple sugars. The other items you have mentioned have too much sugar. Too much sugar in general is bad but on the bike it's toxic.

You should also be able to go more than two hours without solids. You are either not fueling enough or your intensity (percieved effort not avg mph) is not high enough or both. I ride 12 hour Double Centuries with 16,000 feet of climbing and no solids. So 2-4 hours without solid food should be doable. If you are trying to go fast eating solid food slows you down. If you want to have lots of fun and little to no pain then go slower and enjoy the food at the rest stops and enjoy the company of your friends.

5. What is your typical post ride routine? Specifically how many calories do you take in and what type of foods are they?


5. Post Ride Routine is to drink a serving of Recoverite ASAP after ride. Get home (if not already there) and eat "real" food, drink more water. I try to take in as many calories (net of what was eaten on bike) to replace what I used riding. I estimate that with my iPhone "Lose it!" app or my Garmin705. I'm sure they aren't incredibly accurate, but don't have a better way to estimate it. I try to take in proteins (chicken usually, or nuts..sometimes fish), and carbs (pasta or rice)...with assorted veggies..and some fats (cheese). Sometimes I allow myself to be "bad" after a good longer ride.

RECOVERITE! GOOD FOR YOU! Sounds like you have a good mix of foods going on. I have multiple small portions spaced out 2 hours apart. I play a game to see what is the fewest number of servings it will take me to feel satisfied for the night. I am always trying to loose weight. But I also hate the "Thanksgiving day bloat".

6. What recovery strategy do you have for your legs?

6. I don't think I really have a recovery strategy for my legs. I suppose walking and stretching would be good, but I don't really have a 'program' per se to drain the lactic acid.

I would strongly suggest getting some compression tights. I am sponsored by Skins and I prefer them. However, you should get compression and start using it for your post ride recovery. I sleep in them often. It will truly make a difference in your performance on day two of TT if you sleep in them.
I would also recommend "the Stick to give yourself a massage.

7. What will be provided at the event? Can or should you bring your own nutrition and just use the water provided?


7. TT is really well supported. They have water, ice, Powerade, and lots of fruit.. also usually some kind of Sweet-N-Salty bar (that brand) to eat at every rest stop. I can bring my own too, but its not really necessary with all the food they have (unless I just want something else). Ive taken Accel Gel or Sport Beans to supplement in yrs past. Some rest stops have stuff like mini pb sandwiches... Those were golden to me by mile 60. Sooo good.

I would definitely think about taking your own Hammer if you want to perform at your best.


8. How long does it take for you to do a century?


8. I did the 2008 Saturday Tulsa Tough century in 7hrs...prob my best 100mile time of all my centuries. That was my first century in about 12yrs though.

Good for you! Keep the formula above in mind.

9. Are there large groups where you might have the benefit of drafting especially the second day.

9. Last year, I did much of the first day by myself, but did catch some draft from some GREAT folks in a riding club from Springfield MO for about 20miles(mile 65-85). They were a life saver b/c we were heading right into the wind. So..my answer is yes.. occasionally a group will pass through that don't mind if I tag along.

Grab as many pacelines as you can. Even if they are only going 15 mph you are saving a lot of energy. But try to catch pacelines that are traveling faster than you would on your own. The good thing is you are not afraid to get in pacelines. Just be careful.

10. What is the elevation gain? A century with 10k of gain is a much higher caloric expenditure than a century with 3k of gain.

10. Saturday = 5200ft, Sunday = 5900ft

Those aren't high numbers. You should be fine if you stay on top of your nutrition and hydration and take care of your recovery.

FREEBIE - favorite decadent dessert is the Bread Pudding from TeiKei's in Tulsa.

EAT PLENTY OF IT ON DAY TWO YOU DESERVE IT!!

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

Indy - thanks!
Actually, TT is really well supported. Rest stops are usually no more than 15 miles apart and they have everything you'd need for refills. I think if I take extra powder with me, I'll be able to mix new drinks right there. Nice! I used to just drink lots of their Powerade (think that's what it is) every stop. I'd fill both my 20oz polars, but usually only go through one per leg.

I will have to train myself to drink more b4 TT so that by then, its 2nd nature.

Good advice about the post ride re-hydration too.. I'll be watching the color!

IMO, it depends on how frequent the scheduled stops are. I can usually get by fluidwise on organized rides with two 20 oz. water bottles. Assuming the stops on the Tulsa ride are every 25-30 miles, I don't think you need a Camelback unless it's really hot.

I usually use water in one bottle and Cytomax in the other. I often bring some extra Cytomax powder with me since Gatorade doesn't agree with me and, in any event, not all organized rides offer it. I luckily found an an online source that sells Cytomax in serving size packets. Before that, I used to just measure it out into Ziploc baggies, which proved to be kind of messy.

At the risk of repeating myself, I think rehydration has to continue after the ride ends and before the next one begins. Prior to going to bed on after first night of the Horsey, I make sure I'm expelling a good volume and that the urine is virtually clear. That's a good sign I'm rehydrated. Then first thing the following morning, I down another big glass of water. It makes for frequent potty breaks, but I'd rather do that then (figuratively) crash mid-ride. In fact, I start every morning ride with a big glass of water.

Another thing I've learned is to make sure to drink during the lunch stop. When I did the Ride Across Indiana (that's 160 mile one day ride) the first time, I make the mistake of only eating during lunch. I barely touched my water bottle. Well, that was a half hour with little to no fluid. By ride's end, I could tell that I was starting to suffer from dehydration. So, the first thing I do at any lunch stop is to down some extra water and sports drink. Then I eat.

All of this sounds really intuitive, I know, but it actually take some discipline to stay on top of hydration and hunger during long rides. All other things being equal, it can make the difference between a successful and fun ride and a sufferfest.

[indysteel]

You're making me want to do this ride! Too bad OK is so far from Indiana.

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

Aww Indy, its not that far! I drove from Tulsa to Evansville in about 9hrs..and i'm no speed demon. Mostly interstate... I-44 and I-64. No getting lost! Bring a friend and it's an even easier drive!

Come on.. I guarantee you there will be others coming from Indiana. I could probably find you a place to stay, too!

Three days of crit racing to watch...pro teams like Toyota United...and two days of GREAT riding in OOOOOO-klahoma...

[kfergos]

All your advise sounds great! I REALLY appreciate this support! The getting-to-bed early thing I'm sure will help. Eating lots... okay... but what do I eat? I'm talking meals off the bike (before and after/inbetween days). I assume I shouldn't just eat anything and call it good. hamburger/fries count? Should I go to Olive Garden or something? buttermilk pancakes in the am? Triple egg omlette? I know I need to make sure to get good protein after the ride and quick access fuel the morning of... nothing heavy. yes?

I have a couple tried-and-true pre-bike meals I tend to eat: Oatmeal and oatmeal pancakes. The recipes are here. I'll eat these 30 minutes to 1 hour before riding, and they'll keep me kicking for a long time. For on-bike food, I carry only regular water and drink it every 15 minutes or so if I remember; I also carry Luna or Clif bars and eat one every 15 to 25 miles and on rides over about 65 miles I carry a banana and eat that, too. I also recommend, if you can stand them, Fig Newtons for good instant on-bike energy.

The night before a big ride I'll try to eat pasta or potatoes, but without too much grease or fat. Afterwards I focus on getting protein in any form within about 20 minutes of getting off my bike -- I really like a toasted bagel sandwich with lots of sliced deli turkey, cheese, cream cheese, pickles, and a good serving of spinach (it's a very thick sandwich by the end, but oh so good). Some people also drink chocolate milk or have ice cream right off the bike. I don't know how much you need fancy, expensive energy/protein foods; they'll certainly work, but my sense is that eating normal foods in a conscientious way will get you the same benefit for cheaper (I say that, but Luna and Clif bars are expensive... I'm experimenting with different oatmeal cookie recipes to try to find a good replacement).

Anyway, those are some of my specific food suggestions. Listen to your body, but remember right off a long ride you'll probably crave fast food or something really unhealthy, and it's important to focus on getting protein and carbs without a ton of fat right then.