Back-to-Back Century rides...

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

Is there a good strategy out there in respect to on-ride refueling AND post first day recovery in prep for the second century day?

Depending on the weather conditions - which in Oklahoma could give me just about anything - it could make the already hilly courses even more brutal.

I challenged myself at last year's Tulsa Tough to ride the Saturday century instead of two days of 100K. I knew I could do 62 miles..back to back.. no problem. I wasn't so prepared for the century, and it was brutally windy the last 30 miles or so. BUT... I ate every hour, I drank well..and I finished with a respectable 14.something mph avg speed. I could not have done another ride on Sunday if I'd wanted to though.

Which... brings me to a question for 2009... can I do a back-to-back century - a la Tulsa Tough... ?? I dont have the total elevation change for you guys. I'm sure it doesn't come close to anything like Ridin the Rockies or anything of the sort, of course.. But.. It is a good day's ride... very good.

I think mentally and physically... though the second day would be tough.. if I fuel right and recover correctly on Saturday.. I could possibly do Sunday too.

Do you gals, guys have tips? Strategies for an undertaking like this?

I'm not looking to break speed records.. I just want to finish each day's ride in respectable fashion (not drooling and knee crawling over the finish) LOL.

Help?

thanks! Susan

www.tulsatough.com

[kathybiker]

Hi Susan,

Good nutritional advice for endurance is available at the hammernutrition.com website. Look at the links on the left and click "Free Knowledge".

Good luck with the centuries!

[Eden]

Do a few long back to back training days.

Leave early on the first day, so that you are getting to your destination fairly early.

When you get there - eat, take a shower, take a nap, get back up and eat, go to sleep (even if it is only 6 o'clock...), get up the next morning and eat some more (more than normal too)...

Get a massage at your overnight stop, if its offered.

Expect some soreness/stiffness/sluggishness at the start of the next day. It should pass once you get warmed up and going again.

Be extra careful to fuel the second day - you're reserves will already be low, so eating and drinking will be even more important.

[indysteel]

I haven't done back to back centuries, but I do the Horsey Hundred in eastern Kentucky each year. Last year I rode 110 miles on Saturday and another 70 miles on Sunday at a decent clip. Both days are pretty hilly. I also do some weeklong tours, although the mileage each day is usually in the 65-85 mile range.

With respect to training, do as many back-to-back long rides as you can.

Also, stay on top of your hydration as best you can. Try to drink more than you usually do. If you're like me, you will be beyond hungry. Eat and then eat some more. It's not the time to count calories!

Make sure you address well in advance of the ride any fit issues that you're having with your bike. Also make sure you have two pairs of good long-distance shorts and that you use (and carry during the ride for reapplication) some chamois cream. No matter how many miles you have in, your booty will probably hurt. I've had some of my only saddle sore issues after the Horsey. I find that zit cream is the best treatment for them once they have developed.

[kfergos]

I second the comments about doing long back-to-back rides -- if I'm riding two centuries back-to-back, I work up to riding two 80-mile days in a row. If you do that, you'll find Day 2 feels exactly like any other training ride. My first back-to-back ride people kept asking "How you doin'?" or "How do you feel?" on the second day, and I honestly answered, "Great!" because I'd trained so much ahead of time.

Food/everything else: I don't have much to add (eat lots, eat carbs, drink lots; same routine, really, as after any other training ride) except that napping and going to bed early on the night between is really helpful. Also bring a very comfy pair of shoes to wear on that Saturday afternoon -- the first time I did it, I only had flip-flops and my biking shoes, neither of which were good for an entire afternoon of hanging out.

[Geonz]

Yea, the main thing is to be in shape so that 100 miles isn't forever, and pace things accordingly. If winds are brutal, ignore the speedometer and slow down.

[ttaylor508]

When I did my first couple of two day double centuries, I remember feeling like there was no way I was getting back on the bike after day one. I was toast! But, surprisingly enough after some good food and a nights rest I felt super strong the next day and finished feeling great. If you have an option to go a little farther the first day than 100 miles, it is a nice mental boost to know you have less than 100 to do the second day even if it is only 10 miles or so.

As long as you train, you will be fine. The more training you get in the more enjoyable the ride will be.

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

Wow - thanks everybody!
This is encouraging!

I have a ride on the 25th that'll be about a month before Tulsa Tough. I just signed up for 68, but if I do that on Saturday and do another on Sunday, I'll have a good base (and bench) for the coming month. Because of our weird weather, I've done one "long" of 50 so far, but I haven't done any long back-to-backs yet. I don't consider 30's b2b as long. But... they were good training....brutal winds.. good for bike handling skills, right?

All your advise sounds great! I REALLY appreciate this support! The getting-to-bed early thing I'm sure will help. Eating lots... okay... but what do I eat? I'm talking meals off the bike (before and after/inbetween days). I assume I shouldn't just eat anything and call it good. hamburger/fries count? Should I go to Olive Garden or something? buttermilk pancakes in the am? Triple egg omlette? I know I need to make sure to get good protein after the ride and quick access fuel the morning of... nothing heavy. yes?

I started using Hammer products this season - Heet, Perpeteum, and Recoverite. I also like to take Accel gels or Sport Beans for extra fuel on the bike (for longer than 3hr rides). Maybe I should start packing PB&Js for the really long rides coming up? I'll pack extra Perpeteum in my jersey too.

I sure won't worry about counting calories on Tulsa Tough, or my long training days. Great thing about TT is that its here in my hometown and I get to go home to rest inbetween centuries. The whole event is a big festival. There'll be lots of opportunity to hang out, etc.

You guys really help me feel like this is actually do-able! Isn't that insane? LOL When I tell people about last year's century (one day), one guy asked how many days it took me, others just look at me like its crazy and I must be lying. You know.. I want to do it if for no other reason that its a great way to see your State! I've lived here most my life and I don't think I'd ever been to some of the towns I rode through on last year's century. It was a beautiful ride.

I've ridden much of the route from the second day/century of TT. I did the 100K route and the 100M leg goes over much of my Wednesday Night Ride route (except backwards - which is a b*tch...even harder). So.. now I already know the terrain of both days. Nothing will be a surprise or scary. Well.. I take that back. There is one hill on day 2 which pitches up to 15%..not sure how long it is , but it sure seemed to go on forever. Maybe avg grade of 8.. I've done it before though so I know I can do it again. I just don't have to like it. LOL

[indysteel]

I think it's completely doable.

As for what foods to eat, I would focus on getting a good mix of carbs and protein, as well as a little fat. Try to get something into your system immediately after the ride ends on that first day. Chocolate milk is my go to post-ride "meal," but anything with a mix of carbs and protein will work, e.g., a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Pair it with a 20 plus ounces of water. Eat a bit of salt, too, especially if it's hot out. Then eat a filling dinner.

During the ride, eat what sits well with you. e.g., Simple carbs, bananas, trail mix (or anything with a bit of salt). I use a top tube bag for long rides and bring with me something cut up in small bites (Payday candy bars are my snack of choice) that I can easily graze on in between rest stops. For breakfast on either day, again go for things that your stomach easily tolerates. I usually stick to fruit, yogurt and oatmeal. Pancakes, toast, and the like will do to. My stomach doesn't react as well to lots of protein before or during a ride, but every person is different.

From my experience, as long as I eat filling meals and at regular intervals on the bike, I have enough fuel. It's dehydration that will get to me first. So my advice is to drink, drink, and then drink some more.

Good luck and be sure to give us a full report after the ride.

[sundial]

Indy, would a Camelbak work for these long rides? Just thinking out loud.

[indysteel]

Indy, would a Camelbak work for these long rides? Just thinking out loud.

IMO, it depends on how frequent the scheduled stops are. I can usually get by fluidwise on organized rides with two 20 oz. water bottles. Assuming the stops on the Tulsa ride are every 25-30 miles, I don't think you need a Camelback unless it's really hot.

I usually use water in one bottle and Cytomax in the other. I often bring some extra Cytomax powder with me since Gatorade doesn't agree with me and, in any event, not all organized rides offer it. I luckily found an an online source that sells Cytomax in serving size packets. Before that, I used to just measure it out into Ziploc baggies, which proved to be kind of messy.

At the risk of repeating myself, I think rehydration has to continue after the ride ends and before the next one begins. Prior to going to bed on after first night of the Horsey, I make sure I'm expelling a good volume and that the urine is virtually clear. That's a good sign I'm rehydrated. Then first thing the following morning, I down another big glass of water. It makes for frequent potty breaks, but I'd rather do that then (figuratively) crash mid-ride. In fact, I start every morning ride with a big glass of water.

Another thing I've learned is to make sure to drink during the lunch stop. When I did the Ride Across Indiana (that's 160 mile one day ride) the first time, I make the mistake of only eating during lunch. I barely touched my water bottle. Well, that was a half hour with little to no fluid. By ride's end, I could tell that I was starting to suffer from dehydration. So, the first thing I do at any lunch stop is to down some extra water and sports drink. Then I eat.

All of this sounds really intuitive, I know, but it actually take some discipline to stay on top of hydration and hunger during long rides. All other things being equal, it can make the difference between a successful and fun ride and a sufferfest.

[Vireo]

I often do back to back days since my training has to be done in blocks. I have my son 50% of the time and so I train ONLY when I don't have him with me. That means a block of Wed-Sunday. I've also done races and events that are 2 days and much more as in Race Across America. While my advice may not work for you it works for me and maybe some of the other members on this forum.

But first some questions:

1. How many calories are you taking in pre-ride?

2. How many calories are you taking in during the ride? Specifically how many per hour?

3. How much do you weigh?

4. What type of fuel are you using? All liquid? Liquid and solids?

5. What is your typical post ride routine? Specifically how many calories do you take in and what type of foods are they?

6. What recovery strategy do you have for your legs?

7. What will be provided at the event? Can or should you bring your own nutrition and just use the water provided?

8. How long does it take for you to do a century?

9. Are there large groups where you might have the benefit of drafting especially the second day.

10. What is the elevation gain? A century with 10k of gain is a much higher caloric expenditure than a century with 3k of gain.

And now just a freebie-- What is your favorite decadent food?

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

Thanks for any advice you can give! I appreciate you sharing any experience you have. I'll try it!

1. I haven't had a prescribed plan for pre-ride eating (I know.not great)...so it varies depending on what day it is (after work?, weekend ride?). If I'm riding after work, then I dont have much other than my lunch still in me when I start and I don't generally eat heavy lunches (usually under 400cal). Weekend rides give me a little more latitude... can eat a bigger breakfast (more carbs - maybe 500-700cal), or a 'heavier' lunch (about same cals). But.. I really haven't tried for a certain amount..just basically ate more (blindly) thinking it'd be better for energy to eat more than just my Frosted Mini Wheats.

2. I'm probably not taking in enough during my usual rides. Perpeteum is 166cal per serving and Heet is only 100. Accel Gel or Sport Beans is 100. I usually only take in one of each during a longer training ride (50)

3. Right now, I weigh 152 (5'7")..but I'm still trying to lose. I want to get increase my power-to-weight ratio... Makes climbing easier.. My "Lose It!" iPhone app gives me a calorie target w/o exercise.. but when I add exercise, it gives me an estimated increase in the amount of calories to keep my weight loss goal in sight. Example..without exercise, my daily target is just under 1300.. but if I add a 2hr ride of 14-15.9mph avg, it gives me about 1350 more to eat. So far, I've lost 8lbs..slowly(slow is good)... we're talking 2mos. My program was 'thrown' for a couple weeks b/c of some gastric issues lately.

4. For rides less than 2hrs, just liquids (HEET and water). Over 2 hrs, I try to take some kind of solid food,but since I haven't gone really long yet, I'm still just using Sport Beans to supplement my liquids (water, Perpeteum..and sometimes Accel Gel too). I haven't really done any targeted training yet.. Just starting and getting good advice.

5. Post Ride Routine is to drink a serving of Recoverite ASAP after ride. Get home (if not already there) and eat "real" food, drink more water. I try to take in as many calories (net of what was eaten on bike) to replace what I used riding. I estimate that with my iPhone "Lose it!" app or my Garmin705. I'm sure they aren't incredibly accurate, but don't have a better way to estimate it. I try to take in proteins (chicken usually, or nuts..sometimes fish), and carbs (pasta or rice)...with assorted veggies..and some fats (cheese). Sometimes I allow myself to be "bad" after a good longer ride.

6. I don't think I really have a recovery strategy for my legs. I suppose walking and stretching would be good, but I don't really have a 'program' per se to drain the lactic acid.

7. TT is really well supported. They have water, ice, Powerade, and lots of fruit.. also usually some kind of Sweet-N-Salty bar (that brand) to eat at every rest stop. I can bring my own too, but its not really necessary with all the food they have (unless I just want something else). Ive taken Accel Gel or Sport Beans to supplement in yrs past. Some rest stops have stuff like mini pb sandwiches... Those were golden to me by mile 60. Sooo good.

8. I did the 2008 Saturday Tulsa Tough century in 7hrs...prob my best 100mile time of all my centuries. That was my first century in about 12yrs though.

9. Last year, I did much of the first day by myself, but did catch some draft from some GREAT folks in a riding club from Springfield MO for about 20miles(mile 65-85). They were a life saver b/c we were heading right into the wind. So..my answer is yes.. occasionally a group will pass through that don't mind if I tag along.

10. Saturday = 5200ft, Sunday = 5900ft

FREEBIE - favorite decadent dessert is the Bread Pudding from TeiKei's in Tulsa.

I often do back to back days since my training has to be done in blocks. I have my son 50% of the time and so I train ONLY when I don't have him with me. That means a block of Wed-Sunday. I've also done races and events that are 2 days and much more as in Race Across America. While my advice may not work for you it works for me and maybe some of the other members on this forum.

But first some questions:

1. How many calories are you taking in pre-ride?

2. How many calories are you taking in during the ride? Specifically how many per hour?

3. How much do you weigh?

4. What type of fuel are you using? All liquid? Liquid and solids?

5. What is your typical post ride routine? Specifically how many calories do you take in and what type of foods are they?

6. What recovery strategy do you have for your legs?

7. What will be provided at the event? Can or should you bring your own nutrition and just use the water provided?

8. How long does it take for you to do a century?

9. Are there large groups where you might have the benefit of drafting especially the second day.

10. What is the elevation gain? A century with 10k of gain is a much higher caloric expenditure than a century with 3k of gain.

And now just a freebie-- What is your favorite decadent food?

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

Indy - thanks!
Actually, TT is really well supported. Rest stops are usually no more than 15 miles apart and they have everything you'd need for refills. I think if I take extra powder with me, I'll be able to mix new drinks right there. Nice! I used to just drink lots of their Powerade (think that's what it is) every stop. I'd fill both my 20oz polars, but usually only go through one per leg.

I will have to train myself to drink more b4 TT so that by then, its 2nd nature.

Good advice about the post ride re-hydration too.. I'll be watching the color!

IMO, it depends on how frequent the scheduled stops are. I can usually get by fluidwise on organized rides with two 20 oz. water bottles. Assuming the stops on the Tulsa ride are every 25-30 miles, I don't think you need a Camelback unless it's really hot.

I usually use water in one bottle and Cytomax in the other. I often bring some extra Cytomax powder with me since Gatorade doesn't agree with me and, in any event, not all organized rides offer it. I luckily found an an online source that sells Cytomax in serving size packets. Before that, I used to just measure it out into Ziploc baggies, which proved to be kind of messy.

At the risk of repeating myself, I think rehydration has to continue after the ride ends and before the next one begins. Prior to going to bed on after first night of the Horsey, I make sure I'm expelling a good volume and that the urine is virtually clear. That's a good sign I'm rehydrated. Then first thing the following morning, I down another big glass of water. It makes for frequent potty breaks, but I'd rather do that then (figuratively) crash mid-ride. In fact, I start every morning ride with a big glass of water.

Another thing I've learned is to make sure to drink during the lunch stop. When I did the Ride Across Indiana (that's 160 mile one day ride) the first time, I make the mistake of only eating during lunch. I barely touched my water bottle. Well, that was a half hour with little to no fluid. By ride's end, I could tell that I was starting to suffer from dehydration. So, the first thing I do at any lunch stop is to down some extra water and sports drink. Then I eat.

All of this sounds really intuitive, I know, but it actually take some discipline to stay on top of hydration and hunger during long rides. All other things being equal, it can make the difference between a successful and fun ride and a sufferfest.

[indysteel]

You're making me want to do this ride! Too bad OK is so far from Indiana.