Dog owners: do any of you feed raw?

[ccnyc]

I've been feeding my two cats a homemade raw diet for 9 years. They both have beautiful coats and muscles and they love their food. I grind whole chicken and Cornish Game hen with liver, heart and gizzards and also grind beef and lamb and add calcium to make sure it's balanced nutritionally. I add additional supplements also. It takes me only a few hours from start to finish to make a big batch of food which I freeze in small containers. Then it's as easy as feeding canned food. I make food about once a month.

You can get very high quality raw food (ground whole prey and parts) from a place called Hare Today.
http://www.hare-today.com/

Carol

[TsPoet]

My dogs get dry for breakfast and 25:75 dry:raw for dinner. I started this diet when my little guy was 7 years old. His fur returned to puppy fur right away, and he lost ~1 lb (from 21 to 20, so that's significant). He also returned to being more energetic and bouncy. He was beginning to act really old. This change in an old dog to a middle-aged dog is really extreme. We even started agility at the old age of 8, and he's doing great. He could not have done agility prior to the raw food, he was too old and slow moving.
My Shiba-x also has almost normal fur, instead of the typical shiba wiry stuff. She was 1.5 when I started her on raw food, so haven't noticed any health differences in her. They've been on this diet for 1.5 years now.
Their stools were unpleasant to clean up for about a month, now cleanup is better than it's ever been.
I feed them this
http://www.columbiarivernaturalpetfoods.com/
I really like that I have a somewhat local brand to get. At first I got meat only, because I was under the impression that dogs couldn't absorb veggies. After doing research on it, they now get chicken/veggies or turkey/veggies (I'm cheap and the others are more expensive.

The other thing to note is it's gross - the chicken and turkey are the least gross (fatty). Also, at first I lightly microwaved the meat - for me. Now I just grab a handful of the stuff and plop it in the bowl, no qualms. The dogs love it.

[Norse]

After a scary bout with liver failure, our dog was switched to an all-natural diet (not raw though) and is doing wonderfully. Our two cats currently get the best canned food we can find, plus one gets low protein food sold by vets due to past liver problems. Seeing the marvelous results in our dog though, I would like to switch the cats to a natural foods diet.

Questions: Those of you grinding your own food, do you include the skin and bones? Did you buy a standard meat grinder for the task? Do you include any veggies or starch (like cooked rice) or just the meat? What supplements do you give? With raw meat, are you concerned about salmonella, e-coli and othe nasty things?

[Biciclista]

yes, i include chicken skin and bones. The only supplement I add is salmon oil. oh, and egg yolks. one yolk for every pound or so of meat..
I bought a dandy little grinder that goes right through chicken bones.

http://www.irawoods.com/Maverick-MM-5501-Meat-Grinder

[Norse]

Thanks Mimi. You mentioned that you also give them some dry food mixed with water. Is the dry food addition out of concern that they might be missing some nutrients otherwise? Also, do you cook the yokes?

[Andrea]

I am curious, though, what the arguments against a raw diet are. I like to hear both sides of the story.

[Biciclista]

I am curious, though, what the arguments against a raw diet are. I like to hear both sides of the story.

against? It's gross.
Also, a lot of people are concerned about salmonella. Since i use human grade food and wash and handle everything just like i would for my own plate, I think I'm ok. Cats and dogs can tolerate salmonella when we can't. I'm not going to eat it off the floor, but the fact is, 30 minutes after I put it down, the cats have cleaned the bowls.

[roadie gal]

I am curious, though, what the arguments against a raw diet are. I like to hear both sides of the story.

It's gross.

It can take a lot of prep time.

It can be harder to board your dog or have someone watch it if it's on a complicated food schedule.

It can be harder to get a fully balanced, nutritionally complete diet.

It can be more expensive.

Some animals can't tolerate it.

If you want to look at some of the arguments, go to www.dogforums.com and browse the dog food forum. There are MANY threads dealing with the pros and cons and the how-tos of raw feeding. Some people are very passionate... in both directions.

[Biciclista]

Thanks Mimi. You mentioned that you also give them some dry food mixed with water. Is the dry food addition out of concern that they might be missing some nutrients otherwise? Also, do you cook the yokes?

It's all raw. I do not cook the yolks. I give them dry food because my oldest cat (14 years old) won't eat the raw food, and dry food is like candy(we call it kitty crack) to all of them, so I can't give HER kibbles and not let the others have any. I think they each get an ounce or an ounce and a half of kibbles a day.

[sundial]

The question about the benefits of raw feeding does indeed spark heated debates. I have friend that feed their dogs the BARF diet and swear by it. I once fostered a dog that was on a raw diet.

Although dogs are not prone to some health issues eating raw, people are and even though I have fed them out in the backyard, in my opinion it sets up the potential for problems like E coli.

Personally, I have fed my dogs home cooked foods and saw similar benefits--reduction in skin problems, a shiny coat, less tartar, and increase of energy. I think the preservatives and less than quality ingredients in some dry kibble seems to increase some health problems. I also believe it's not a coincidence that cancer is increasing in dogs due to the fact that kibble contains byproducts of poultry and cattle which are fed questionable feed.

This is just my personal observation and every owner will have to consider the pros and cons of raw feeding.

[eclectic]

Tulip

I just perused the thread very quickly so if your question was answered I missed it.

re poultry bones

I am by no means an expert and this may be folklore passed on generation to generation but I was always told not to give poultry bones to dogs because they splinter and can get caught too easily in their throat and digestive track.

BUT on the other hand when my dog is a bored, naughty, mad at us, for leaving her too long girl and gets into the trash - she has been known to eat poultry bones and has been no worse for wear because of it. I just don't intentionally give them to her. She is a large midsize dog

Someone mentioned earlier that they grind them - I would think that would take care of all the problems

Onto the other discussion Raw vs dry

IMHO I think raw would be more natural and better. I would think if they were started on that since being a puppy they wouldn't have trouble - I think switching them over would be more difficult

I on the other hand feed my dog very inexpensive dry (OK I am a bad mom )
She has eaten the same dog food since we got her in the middle of her puppy stage. She is now 12 going on 13. She had cancer when she was 7 but after having surgery she has been cancer free for over 5 years. She is just now starting to get cataracts. We thought she was going deaf but have since learned she has very selective hearing.

She is an "over the fence" breed

All our purebreds never lived past 11 - definately something to be said for mutts!

[hayleymajayley]

I had only heard a little about raw food diets for dogs before. This is very interesting! I just got my first dog 3 weeks ago, she's now 12 weeks old. We'd been feeding her Kirkland Signature food, because that's what the breeder reccommended and hey it's SO CHEAP!!!! But then she developed crystals in her urine because she's not metabalizing it well. She's currently on a special wet food, but I'm not sure what to put her on when we go back to regular food. We are crazy busy right now so I doubt we could fit grinding up chickens into the schedule, and funds are tight so I don't want to do anything crazy expensive. Any good not too pricey natural foods out there?

[Biciclista]

You're in western washington. Go to a good pet food store (not petsmart) and ask.

[Norse]

Having not tried raw yet, other than giving the cats an occasional few pieces of raw fish or chicken, I can't speak for it but I am curious. However, I have observed that our 8 year old dog has never looked better since switching her to a home-cooked diet. For treats, she gets raw carrots. To satisfy her urge to chew, she has big nylabone.

[ccnyc]

Questions: Those of you grinding your own food, do you include the skin and bones? Did you buy a standard meat grinder for the task? Do you include any veggies or starch (like cooked rice) or just the meat? What supplements do you give? With raw meat, are you concerned about salmonella, e-coli and othe nasty things?

When I grind chicken or cornish game hen I grind it all - skin, bones, organs, neck. It is nutritionally balanced re calcium phosphorus ratio. Meat from large animals with bones too hard to grind like beef and lamb need to have calcium added to balance the high phosphorus in the meat.

I have a Maverick grinder like Mimi, although mine is 9 years old. It's a great grinder. You can't just use any grinder. Some of the more powerful ones don't grind bones very well.
This is supposed to be a very good grinder also.
http://www.onestopjerkyshop.com/prod...products_id=47

I don't include any starch/grain because cats don't have any need for them. (I've read that dogs can utilize nutrients from grain.) I include a small amount of veggie as a fiber source.

In the 9 years I've been preparing the raw diet I've never had any problems with the cats, or myself, getting sick from the raw food.

If anyone wants further info on raw diets for cats http://holisticat.com/ is a great resource. So is their forum.

Carol