Stem and Hoods questions

[GraysonKelly]

1-3 spot on
4 - shallow refers to the distance between the top of the bar and the drop. Reach - distance that the bars stick out forward, width - how wide side to side
5 -yep, shims move the lever a little closer into the bars. If you shim then your brakes does have a little less throw, but I don't think its generally an issue

Cool! I can live with 80%! Thanks!

[fidlfreek]

I am a huge fan of the Bontrager Fit handlebar. This bar has very little reach with a small drop. This works very well with small hands.

http://bontrager.com/model/06244/en

I agree. I have this exact bar and love it. The drops aren't "ergo" but I don't think they feel exactly like a classic bend either. They are perfect for me with my small small hands (and I use an XS glove whenever I can find it). As a bonus I found mine on ebay for $1, plus $12 shipping..

[lunacycles]

Your reach is too far. I won't bother with telling you that your top tube is likely too long (the typical small cx bike issue for small women), but, yes, a shorter stem will help. A lot of women are tempted to do the stem-with-a big-rise/angle approach to bring the bars back, and while it technically reduces reach, it isn't the proper fix. It brings you back, slightly, but really brings you up. Unless you have profound neck/back issues, you really shouldn't shoot for a position in which your handlebar is higher than your saddle, imo, unless your bike is designed for it (and yours isn't).

While you can tilt the bars back, this is also not a great solution, as it creates a lousy platform for your hands when you are in the drops (e.g., kinked wrists). The idea mentioned of finding a bar with less drop/curve from the tops to the hoods is a good one.

When fitting yourself to your existing bike, your starting point is your saddle position. Having it in the right fore/aft position and at the proper height is important. It should be considered the baseline. From there, you can start trouble-shooting reach. (You should never move the saddle to fix reach problems, especially if you have any knee problems, although folks do it anyway.)

You mentioned the hoods feeling large. Why Shimano makes HUMONGOUS hoods these days is beyond me. They didn't used to be this way. Shims will bring in your brake levers closer to the bar, but they won't affect how the hood feels. Because you have a Shimano equipped bike, as long as you have a double crank, you can consider SRAM brifters. They are a really nice shape for small hands, without the bulbous look and feel of the Shimano version, and are compatible with Shimano 10-speed drivetrains (with double cranks,, that is).

But, like everyone else said, a professional fit is always a great idea!

[Triskeliongirl]

Margo, what do you think of Eden's remark that shimming effects the braking effeciency (I think that is what she means by 'throw' but not sure). I have shims on order for my new bike. I am fine reaching the levers and braking from the hoods, but in the drops, i.e. I couldn't ride with my fingers contacting the levers, I'd have to move them out to brake so was thinking to shim, but I don't want to compromise my braking effectiveness. I am used to ultegra 9 short reach levers. I agree, these durace 10 ones are ridiculously huge, but I am not going to change them now.

1-3 spot on
4 - shallow refers to the distance between the top of the bar and the drop. Reach - distance that the bars stick out forward, width - how wide side to side
5 -yep, shims move the lever a little closer into the bars. If you shim then your brakes does have a little less throw, but I don't think its generally an issue

[jobob]

Unless you have profound neck/back issues, you really shouldn't shoot for a position in which your handlebar is higher than your saddle, imo, unless your bike is designed for it (and yours isn't).

Why?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Margo, what do you think of Eden's remark that shimming effects the braking effeciency (I think that is what she means by 'throw' but not sure). I have shims on order for my new bike....but I don't want to compromise my braking effectiveness. I am used to ultegra 9 short reach levers.

I'm not Margo, but...I don't think shims effect the brake efficiency- they just mean it won't take as big a lever movement for the brakes to engage the rims. Your brakes won't be 'weaker'. I think by 'throw' she meant 'play'.
I have the shims on my Ultegra 9speed short reach brifters, and I just lOVE them. I feel so much safer now that my fingers can actually get a good grip around the levers.

[GraysonKelly]

Unless you have profound neck/back issues, you really shouldn't shoot for a position in which your handlebar is higher than your saddle, imo, unless your bike is designed for it (and yours isn't).

Why?

I agree, why?

[GraysonKelly]

When fitting yourself to your existing bike, your starting point is your saddle position. Having it in the right fore/aft position and at the proper height is important. It should be considered the baseline. From there, you can start trouble-shooting reach. (You should never move the saddle to fix reach problems, especially if you have any knee problems, although folks do it anyway.)

Thanks for all the info. The only reason I messed with my fore/aft position is because that's what the LBS told me to do since he didn't know how to fix my complaint about reach without getting me a new stem (an idea which he wasn't all that enthusiastic about...in fact he seemed rather irked that I went in there several times with the same complaint). I was just experimenting when I was moving my seat up and back. Just getting a feel for it. I marked where my seat had been before I started messing around so I'd know where to put it back...did the same thing with the seat post so I'll always know where I need it to be. Like I said earlier, I'm obsessive about my knee so my thought in this whole fit process is to make sure my knees are okay and then kind of make the rest of the bike "fit" that...does that make sense? Or is that the wrong attitude? Of course I don't wanna hurt my back or shoulders and honestly nothing hurts (except my wrists in certain positions), it's just that I don't feel comfortable. I don't have the vocab to explain it better than that. But I do appreciate all your help.
Gray

[Ana]

Just an observation: It appears that your saddle is tilted a little bit backward from parallel to the ground (the brick background makes it easy)... How does leveling the saddle change your fit?

[GraysonKelly]

Just an observation: It appears that your saddle is tilted a little bit backward from parallel to the ground (the brick background makes it easy)... How does leveling the saddle change your fit?

That is a very good question, I don't know but I'll find out tomorrow. DP would kill me if I pulled the trainer out tonight and started messing with it. Thanks for the observation!
Gray

[Eden]

Margo, what do you think of Eden's remark that shimming effects the braking effeciency (I think that is what she means by 'throw' but not sure). I have shims on order for my new bike. I am fine reaching the levers and braking from the hoods, but in the drops, i.e. I couldn't ride with my fingers contacting the levers, I'd have to move them out to brake so was thinking to shim, but I don't want to compromise my braking effectiveness. I am used to ultegra 9 short reach levers. I agree, these durace 10 ones are ridiculously huge, but I am not going to change them now.

I don't think it necessarily will affect the braking efficiency, it just means you have less far to squeeze before you actuate the brake..... its not inherently negative though- just depends on how you like your brakes adjusted. If you tend to like them loose it might be harder to achieve that feel.

[Mr. SR500]

Shims work great if needed, once installed brakes are adjusted to be just as responsive.

On bar rotation, whatever your comfortable with is best. I like a flat top, because it lets me ride in the hoods all day long, and I can still do a 30 minute TT in the drops. It will also allow you to ride more aero by grasping the hoods like a gun while resting your forearms on the bar (sort like having aero bars without the aero bars). John Howard really pushes this technique and while I don't use it often, it works well.

I think your on the right track with your fitting. The first fitter I ever had always said start with the ground and work you way up. I've had different fittings over the years, but his approach was very systematic and makes sense. He started with cleats, (he was a Lemond wedge fan as well), then worked up to the saddle/seatpost, next the bar, and finally the stem. And repeat.

I'm getting ready to have Retul fitting done, and look forward to how it compares to past fittings. It uses sensors and a computer to draw a 3D image of what is going on in real time. Should be cool.

[SadieKate]

Re: the bar to saddle drop question, I'll take a stab and let Margo correct me.

Fit is all about the angle in your hips and shoulders. If you look at someone who has been properly fitted on a variety of bikes, the angle of their back/hip and then their back/arms stays relatively the same. It doesn't matter if they are on a tri bike, road racing geo, touring geo, etc. Those angles will stay about the same.

So, if your bike's geometry isn't designed for a saddle/bar drop or vice versa, you aren't going to get comfy. Take a tri-bike, you should be sitting farther forward over the crank than you would on a touring bike which means the seat tube is a different angle. This also means the front end has to be lower and longer.

There's my very garbled take on this.

[Kiwi Stoker]

I got rather excited about Margo's comment that you can mix Sram shifters with Shimano. I too hate the bulkiness of Shimano shifters as my short fingers cannot reach the brake levers very well from the hoods. I tried in the bike shop, Sram and campy shifters which are heaps narrower and the "blades" are flatter so my fingers won't slip. However I don't want to change my entire groupset as that would be expensive!

However I just checked with a Shimano expert I know and he said "yes you can but you also have to change out the front and rear derailleur as well".

Which kind of makes that option not so attractive...

[SadieKate]

Your Shimano expert needs a little larnin'.

http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

I hate Shimano road shifters. I love Campy but sometimes I need Shimano gearing. I have a road bike and a cross bike that have Campy shifters and Shimano derailleurs and cassettes. The Shiftmate works like a charm.