Stem and Hoods questions

[alpinerabbit]

Your bars will move closer to you if you install a stem with a steeper angle. Shouldn't cost you a fortune (from 40$) and I hope this does the trick (unless the bike is hopelessly too big for you). A longer stem will do the opposite.

I don't quite understand why you had the saddle moved back. This does not help IMHO. In addition you mess with the knee position over the pedal axle.


As always, pictures would help.

[GraysonKelly]

Your bars will move closer to you if you install a stem with a steeper angle. Shouldn't cost you a fortune (from 40$) and I hope this does the trick (unless the bike is hopelessly too big for you). A longer stem will do the opposite.

I don't quite understand why you had the saddle moved back. This does not help IMHO. In addition you mess with the knee position over the pedal axle.


As always, pictures would help.

LOL, I was trying different stuff to try and get the arm and hand position right. I moved it back because moving it forward was really, really bad. I marked my saddle so I'd know what position it was in before I started moving it hither and thither. Thanks for the clarification on the stem questions. I had a rather generic fit when I bought the bike so the bike technically "fits" but I haven't found anyone really thorough that will do a fit for me. The LBS doesn't really do much, at least from what I've seen. If anyone knows of any in the Pittsburgh area, let me know.
I have a bad knee and have a good understanding of knee kinesiolgy, biomechanics, etc so I'm extremely meticulous about this. It's the rest of it that I can't do myself. Well, I could if I could be on the bike and measure myself at the same time, but that doesn't really seem to work. Here's some pics of the bike, not sure what you're looking for, but here ya go.

[Triskeliongirl]

I bought a new bike recently, and felt exactly like you do on the stock bar while waiting for my LBS to order me the recommended bar. The bar I ended up with, called the 3T ergonova, has a long flat top, short reach, and short drop. I LOVE IT. Before getting this bar I was like you, I was using the hoods when I should be in the drops (descending), the tops for climbing, and that position behind the hoods for cruising (when I should have been in the hoods). The carbon version is expensive, but it also comes in aluminum if money is an issue. I also like this bar cuz the drops are longer than on other short reach bars. But when I was out riding I noticed what other gals had, and the bontrager VR Fit seemed quite popular, also not expensive in aluminum. But I worried the drops weren't as extended for me. But its even shorter reach (70mm) vs mine which is (77mm) if that is an important consideration for you. Salsa poco is also short reach (70mm) and popular with many, but I don't like the deeper ergo drops. FOr me, the very shallow smooth drop is better.

I also ordered some shims from specialized to bring the levers closer to the bar (these are not expensive but gruppo specific so take a look). I am waiting for those now, but if you look at my recent I got a new bike thread compare the first pic to the last to see how diff it looks with the bar change.

Looking at your set-up, you may also want to try raising the positioning of the shifters on the bar. My fitter did this as well, and had me vary that and go ride before we taped the bars.

[bike4ever]

GraysonKelly - I used to work in a shop in Mt Lebanon called TRM cycles. They have since moved to Castle Shannon, but I believe they are still under the same ownership. I remember they did a wonderful job of bike fitting.

http://trekofpgh.com/page.cfm?PageID=266

I am a huge fan of the Bontrager Fit handlebar. This bar has very little reach with a small drop. This works very well with small hands.

http://bontrager.com/model/06244/en

[GraysonKelly]

GraysonKelly - I used to work in a shop in Mt Lebanon called TRM cycles. They have since moved to Castle Shannon, but I believe they are still under the same ownership. I remember they did a wonderful job of bike fitting.

http://trekofpgh.com/page.cfm?PageID=266

I am a huge fan of the Bontrager Fit handlebar. This bar has very little reach with a small drop. This works very well with small hands.

http://bontrager.com/model/06244/en

Wow! Thanks! There's actually several locations listed for this place so I'll give them a call. As I just mentioned to Trisk, i was actually thinking that smaller handlebar might help a little. I don't think I have extremely small hands, but they aren't big (The gloves I wear are men's smalls because the women's small was too small and the medium was a little too big for my tastes). I just want to make sure I get this right because I've already got wrist issues in both wrists and don't want to make it worse.
Thanks again!
Gray

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I would rotate your bars UP so that the curved part of the bars on top right behind the hoods is level with the ground. As you have it now, you must curve your wrists down in a very awkward position to grab the hoods and wrap around the brakes. Don't worry about the bar ends being level with the ground- on ergonomic bars like yours they don't have to be.

And yes, sometimes pushing your saddle all the way back can get your center of gravity back more and help get weight off your hands.

[Triskeliongirl]

I'll try to keep it simple. Its not just about hand size. I wear a size L women's glove.

Its about flexibility and torso/arm length. You need to be able to reach your bars with a bend in your elbow, not locked out as you describe. There are two ways to bring the bar in, One is to shorten the stem one is to shorten the bar (reach not width now). I don't know what the reach is on your current bar, but I threw out same names of bars know to have relatively short reaches. Turning the bars up and repositioning the levers may also help, but then you have to be sure they don't effect how your hands feel in the drops.

What I just learned though, is how varying the drop can help. My new bar has an ususually shallow drop. That means I don't have to bend as low to reach them, which is better for my body.

What I suggest is, going to shop that may even have these bars already mounted on a bike. We started by putting another bike in a trainer that had the bar I was considering, so I could get a first impression. When it felt right, he mounted one on my bike, and set about varying the position of the brake levers until it felt perfect. Now, this was part of a new bike purchase fitting, so I probably got more attention paid to me than on a retro-fit.

But, everything I hear you saying is that you'd like your bars a bit closer to your body. The shims are about making the levers be closer to the bars when you are in the drops which is a separat but also important issue (a cheap $10 fix).

[fidlfreek]

I am a huge fan of the Bontrager Fit handlebar. This bar has very little reach with a small drop. This works very well with small hands.

http://bontrager.com/model/06244/en

I agree. I have this exact bar and love it. The drops aren't "ergo" but I don't think they feel exactly like a classic bend either. They are perfect for me with my small small hands (and I use an XS glove whenever I can find it). As a bonus I found mine on ebay for $1, plus $12 shipping..

[lunacycles]

Your reach is too far. I won't bother with telling you that your top tube is likely too long (the typical small cx bike issue for small women), but, yes, a shorter stem will help. A lot of women are tempted to do the stem-with-a big-rise/angle approach to bring the bars back, and while it technically reduces reach, it isn't the proper fix. It brings you back, slightly, but really brings you up. Unless you have profound neck/back issues, you really shouldn't shoot for a position in which your handlebar is higher than your saddle, imo, unless your bike is designed for it (and yours isn't).

While you can tilt the bars back, this is also not a great solution, as it creates a lousy platform for your hands when you are in the drops (e.g., kinked wrists). The idea mentioned of finding a bar with less drop/curve from the tops to the hoods is a good one.

When fitting yourself to your existing bike, your starting point is your saddle position. Having it in the right fore/aft position and at the proper height is important. It should be considered the baseline. From there, you can start trouble-shooting reach. (You should never move the saddle to fix reach problems, especially if you have any knee problems, although folks do it anyway.)

You mentioned the hoods feeling large. Why Shimano makes HUMONGOUS hoods these days is beyond me. They didn't used to be this way. Shims will bring in your brake levers closer to the bar, but they won't affect how the hood feels. Because you have a Shimano equipped bike, as long as you have a double crank, you can consider SRAM brifters. They are a really nice shape for small hands, without the bulbous look and feel of the Shimano version, and are compatible with Shimano 10-speed drivetrains (with double cranks,, that is).

But, like everyone else said, a professional fit is always a great idea!

[jobob]

Unless you have profound neck/back issues, you really shouldn't shoot for a position in which your handlebar is higher than your saddle, imo, unless your bike is designed for it (and yours isn't).

Why?

[GraysonKelly]

When fitting yourself to your existing bike, your starting point is your saddle position. Having it in the right fore/aft position and at the proper height is important. It should be considered the baseline. From there, you can start trouble-shooting reach. (You should never move the saddle to fix reach problems, especially if you have any knee problems, although folks do it anyway.)

Thanks for all the info. The only reason I messed with my fore/aft position is because that's what the LBS told me to do since he didn't know how to fix my complaint about reach without getting me a new stem (an idea which he wasn't all that enthusiastic about...in fact he seemed rather irked that I went in there several times with the same complaint). I was just experimenting when I was moving my seat up and back. Just getting a feel for it. I marked where my seat had been before I started messing around so I'd know where to put it back...did the same thing with the seat post so I'll always know where I need it to be. Like I said earlier, I'm obsessive about my knee so my thought in this whole fit process is to make sure my knees are okay and then kind of make the rest of the bike "fit" that...does that make sense? Or is that the wrong attitude? Of course I don't wanna hurt my back or shoulders and honestly nothing hurts (except my wrists in certain positions), it's just that I don't feel comfortable. I don't have the vocab to explain it better than that. But I do appreciate all your help.
Gray

[GraysonKelly]

I bought a new bike recently, and felt exactly like you do on the stock bar while waiting for my LBS to order me the recommended bar. The bar I ended up with, called the 3T ergonova, has a long flat top, short reach, and short drop. I LOVE IT. Before getting this bar I was like you, I was using the hoods when I should be in the drops (descending), the tops for climbing, and that position behind the hoods for cruising (when I should have been in the hoods). The carbon version is expensive, but it also comes in aluminum if money is an issue. I also like this bar cuz the drops are longer than on other short reach bars. But when I was out riding I noticed what other gals had, and the bontrager VR Fit seemed quite popular, also not expensive in aluminum. But I worried the drops weren't as extended for me. But its even shorter reach (70mm) vs mine which is (77mm) if that is an important consideration for you. Salsa poco is also short reach (70mm) and popular with many, but I don't like the deeper ergo drops. FOr me, the very shallow smooth drop is better.

I also ordered some shims from specialized to bring the levers closer to the bar (these are not expensive but gruppo specific so take a look). I am waiting for those now, but if you look at my recent I got a new bike thread compare the first pic to the last to see how diff it looks with the bar change.

Looking at your set-up, you may also want to try raising the positioning of the shifters on the bar. My fitter did this as well, and had me vary that and go ride before we taped the bars.

ROTFL!! Trisk, thank you so much and I will go check out your post about the new bike and pics. Thank you. I'm laughing because I just spent 10 minutes reading this and looking up about every 5 words your said!!! I'm laughing at me. I'm sure when i look into this that I'll understand better what your saying, but all I got out of that right now is that a smaller set of handle bars might be a good idea. I agree with that and appreciate your advice.
Have a great day! I'm learning and ya'll just help me learn more and more, I love that. Thanks!
Gray

[Ana]

Just an observation: It appears that your saddle is tilted a little bit backward from parallel to the ground (the brick background makes it easy)... How does leveling the saddle change your fit?

[GraysonKelly]

Just an observation: It appears that your saddle is tilted a little bit backward from parallel to the ground (the brick background makes it easy)... How does leveling the saddle change your fit?

That is a very good question, I don't know but I'll find out tomorrow. DP would kill me if I pulled the trainer out tonight and started messing with it. Thanks for the observation!
Gray