Stem and Hoods questions

[Triskeliongirl]

I bought a new bike recently, and felt exactly like you do on the stock bar while waiting for my LBS to order me the recommended bar. The bar I ended up with, called the 3T ergonova, has a long flat top, short reach, and short drop. I LOVE IT. Before getting this bar I was like you, I was using the hoods when I should be in the drops (descending), the tops for climbing, and that position behind the hoods for cruising (when I should have been in the hoods). The carbon version is expensive, but it also comes in aluminum if money is an issue. I also like this bar cuz the drops are longer than on other short reach bars. But when I was out riding I noticed what other gals had, and the bontrager VR Fit seemed quite popular, also not expensive in aluminum. But I worried the drops weren't as extended for me. But its even shorter reach (70mm) vs mine which is (77mm) if that is an important consideration for you. Salsa poco is also short reach (70mm) and popular with many, but I don't like the deeper ergo drops. FOr me, the very shallow smooth drop is better.

I also ordered some shims from specialized to bring the levers closer to the bar (these are not expensive but gruppo specific so take a look). I am waiting for those now, but if you look at my recent I got a new bike thread compare the first pic to the last to see how diff it looks with the bar change.

Looking at your set-up, you may also want to try raising the positioning of the shifters on the bar. My fitter did this as well, and had me vary that and go ride before we taped the bars.

[bike4ever]

GraysonKelly - I used to work in a shop in Mt Lebanon called TRM cycles. They have since moved to Castle Shannon, but I believe they are still under the same ownership. I remember they did a wonderful job of bike fitting.

http://trekofpgh.com/page.cfm?PageID=266

I am a huge fan of the Bontrager Fit handlebar. This bar has very little reach with a small drop. This works very well with small hands.

http://bontrager.com/model/06244/en

[GraysonKelly]

GraysonKelly - I used to work in a shop in Mt Lebanon called TRM cycles. They have since moved to Castle Shannon, but I believe they are still under the same ownership. I remember they did a wonderful job of bike fitting.

http://trekofpgh.com/page.cfm?PageID=266

I am a huge fan of the Bontrager Fit handlebar. This bar has very little reach with a small drop. This works very well with small hands.

http://bontrager.com/model/06244/en

Wow! Thanks! There's actually several locations listed for this place so I'll give them a call. As I just mentioned to Trisk, i was actually thinking that smaller handlebar might help a little. I don't think I have extremely small hands, but they aren't big (The gloves I wear are men's smalls because the women's small was too small and the medium was a little too big for my tastes). I just want to make sure I get this right because I've already got wrist issues in both wrists and don't want to make it worse.
Thanks again!
Gray

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I would rotate your bars UP so that the curved part of the bars on top right behind the hoods is level with the ground. As you have it now, you must curve your wrists down in a very awkward position to grab the hoods and wrap around the brakes. Don't worry about the bar ends being level with the ground- on ergonomic bars like yours they don't have to be.

And yes, sometimes pushing your saddle all the way back can get your center of gravity back more and help get weight off your hands.

[Triskeliongirl]

I'll try to keep it simple. Its not just about hand size. I wear a size L women's glove.

Its about flexibility and torso/arm length. You need to be able to reach your bars with a bend in your elbow, not locked out as you describe. There are two ways to bring the bar in, One is to shorten the stem one is to shorten the bar (reach not width now). I don't know what the reach is on your current bar, but I threw out same names of bars know to have relatively short reaches. Turning the bars up and repositioning the levers may also help, but then you have to be sure they don't effect how your hands feel in the drops.

What I just learned though, is how varying the drop can help. My new bar has an ususually shallow drop. That means I don't have to bend as low to reach them, which is better for my body.

What I suggest is, going to shop that may even have these bars already mounted on a bike. We started by putting another bike in a trainer that had the bar I was considering, so I could get a first impression. When it felt right, he mounted one on my bike, and set about varying the position of the brake levers until it felt perfect. Now, this was part of a new bike purchase fitting, so I probably got more attention paid to me than on a retro-fit.

But, everything I hear you saying is that you'd like your bars a bit closer to your body. The shims are about making the levers be closer to the bars when you are in the drops which is a separat but also important issue (a cheap $10 fix).

[Mr. SR500]

Saddle should be set up for your legs both power and comfort - reach adjustment comes via the stem and bike size.

I agree your bars should be rotated up, I like the top of the bars to be flat as it joins the hoods, not sloping down as you have.

You stem looks like about a 110 mm, you can easily go shorter and with a higher angle. My wife runs a 60 mm 30 degree stem. That is about as short as you want to go, but works great for her.

Looks like you have lots of adjustment to get you feeling good on your bike.

[Eden]

ah the endless quest for bike fit....

If your elbows are always straight out, I would think that just changing the bars will be unlikely to make enough difference - it sounds like you need a shorter stem, and possibly different bars.

If you do go with different bars, see if there is any way you can try them out first.... Personally though I am a small person and have small hands, I found ergo bars with a very shallow drop to be *very* uncomfortable... I was banging my forearms on the ends of the drops and actually bruising them... I prefer pretty traditional rounded bars and a decent sized drop. Though I have small hands I've never had any problems with standard levers hoods, but if its an issue for you - look into shimming your levers out a bit.

As we are all different.... I would have to disagree with Mr. SR.... for me, I like having my drops parallel to the ground... otherwise I feel like I'm all the time sliding off of them... I prefer to move my levers down to achieve a flat hood over rotating the bars (though from your photos it looks like that may be hard to do with the style of handlebar you have - it looks like there is little flat to the top of the bar...). Moving the levers down also moves them closer to the drop portion of the bar and should make them easier to reach. It seems to be in vogue these days to rotate the bars up and place the levers very high??? (or maybe my bike was just assembled by a teenager who didn't really know what he was doing) Just not comfy for me.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

You stem looks like about a 110 mm, you can easily go shorter and with a higher angle. My wife runs a 60 mm 30 degree stem. That is about as short as you want to go, but works great for her.

Yes I agree, you have a pretty long stem on there for someone with reach problems. Personally, I would recommend you try a 70 mm, and yes stay with a stem that tilts up. Perhaps an adjustable stem might be a good option too.

[fidlfreek]

I am a huge fan of the Bontrager Fit handlebar. This bar has very little reach with a small drop. This works very well with small hands.

http://bontrager.com/model/06244/en

I agree. I have this exact bar and love it. The drops aren't "ergo" but I don't think they feel exactly like a classic bend either. They are perfect for me with my small small hands (and I use an XS glove whenever I can find it). As a bonus I found mine on ebay for $1, plus $12 shipping..

[lunacycles]

Your reach is too far. I won't bother with telling you that your top tube is likely too long (the typical small cx bike issue for small women), but, yes, a shorter stem will help. A lot of women are tempted to do the stem-with-a big-rise/angle approach to bring the bars back, and while it technically reduces reach, it isn't the proper fix. It brings you back, slightly, but really brings you up. Unless you have profound neck/back issues, you really shouldn't shoot for a position in which your handlebar is higher than your saddle, imo, unless your bike is designed for it (and yours isn't).

While you can tilt the bars back, this is also not a great solution, as it creates a lousy platform for your hands when you are in the drops (e.g., kinked wrists). The idea mentioned of finding a bar with less drop/curve from the tops to the hoods is a good one.

When fitting yourself to your existing bike, your starting point is your saddle position. Having it in the right fore/aft position and at the proper height is important. It should be considered the baseline. From there, you can start trouble-shooting reach. (You should never move the saddle to fix reach problems, especially if you have any knee problems, although folks do it anyway.)

You mentioned the hoods feeling large. Why Shimano makes HUMONGOUS hoods these days is beyond me. They didn't used to be this way. Shims will bring in your brake levers closer to the bar, but they won't affect how the hood feels. Because you have a Shimano equipped bike, as long as you have a double crank, you can consider SRAM brifters. They are a really nice shape for small hands, without the bulbous look and feel of the Shimano version, and are compatible with Shimano 10-speed drivetrains (with double cranks,, that is).

But, like everyone else said, a professional fit is always a great idea!

[jobob]

Unless you have profound neck/back issues, you really shouldn't shoot for a position in which your handlebar is higher than your saddle, imo, unless your bike is designed for it (and yours isn't).

Why?

[GraysonKelly]

Unless you have profound neck/back issues, you really shouldn't shoot for a position in which your handlebar is higher than your saddle, imo, unless your bike is designed for it (and yours isn't).

Why?

I agree, why?

[GraysonKelly]

When fitting yourself to your existing bike, your starting point is your saddle position. Having it in the right fore/aft position and at the proper height is important. It should be considered the baseline. From there, you can start trouble-shooting reach. (You should never move the saddle to fix reach problems, especially if you have any knee problems, although folks do it anyway.)

Thanks for all the info. The only reason I messed with my fore/aft position is because that's what the LBS told me to do since he didn't know how to fix my complaint about reach without getting me a new stem (an idea which he wasn't all that enthusiastic about...in fact he seemed rather irked that I went in there several times with the same complaint). I was just experimenting when I was moving my seat up and back. Just getting a feel for it. I marked where my seat had been before I started messing around so I'd know where to put it back...did the same thing with the seat post so I'll always know where I need it to be. Like I said earlier, I'm obsessive about my knee so my thought in this whole fit process is to make sure my knees are okay and then kind of make the rest of the bike "fit" that...does that make sense? Or is that the wrong attitude? Of course I don't wanna hurt my back or shoulders and honestly nothing hurts (except my wrists in certain positions), it's just that I don't feel comfortable. I don't have the vocab to explain it better than that. But I do appreciate all your help.
Gray

[indysteel]

Thanks for all the info. The only reason I messed with my fore/aft position is because that's what the LBS told me to do since he didn't know how to fix my complaint about reach without getting me a new stem (an idea which he wasn't all that enthusiastic about...in fact he seemed rather irked that I went in there several times with the same complaint). I was just experimenting when I was moving my seat up and back. Just getting a feel for it. I marked where my seat had been before I started messing around so I'd know where to put it back...did the same thing with the seat post so I'll always know where I need it to be. Like I said earlier, I'm obsessive about my knee so my thought in this whole fit process is to make sure my knees are okay and then kind of make the rest of the bike "fit" that...does that make sense? Or is that the wrong attitude? Of course I don't wanna hurt my back or shoulders and honestly nothing hurts (except my wrists in certain positions), it's just that I don't feel comfortable. I don't have the vocab to explain it better than that. But I do appreciate all your help.
Gray

Well, I'm irked that your shop was irked. Ordering a different length stem is hardly an unusual step to take to tweak bike fit and it's a pretty easy swap to make. Suggesting that you change your fore/aft position instead, when they know you have knee issues, is just all kinds of wrong. I have to wonder whether you're going to get the assistance you need from that shop.

At this stage, given your various issues, I think you'd be well advised to find a good fitter in your area. As a starting place to finding one, check out the websites for the bike shops in your area. I'd be willing to bet that at least one of them either employs a fitter or can refer you to one if they carry any custom bike brands, e.g., Serotta, Moots, Independent Fabrication.

Here's one that I found just doing a brief search: http://www.trizilla.com/triathlon/pc/services.asp

[GraysonKelly]

Well, I'm irked that your shop was irked. Ordering a different length stem is hardly an unusual step to take to tweak bike fit and it's a pretty easy swap to make. Suggesting that you change your fore/aft position instead, when they know you have knee issues, is just all kinds of wrong. I have to wonder whether you're going to get the assistance you need from that shop.

At this stage, given your various issues, I think you'd be well advised to find a good fitter in your area. As a starting place to finding one, check out the websites for the bike shops in your area. I'd be willing to bet that at least one of them either employs a fitter or can refer you to one if they carry any custom bike brands, e.g., Serotta, Moots, Independent Fabrication.

Here's one that I found just doing a brief search: http://www.trizilla.com/triathlon/pc/services.asp

Thank you! The guys are nice enough and I get free tune ups and stuff since I bought the bike from them. But they aren't all that willing to really help me get the bike comfortable. Anyway, I did find a shop that has a guy who does bike fits. But since it's winter he isn't in with any kind of regularity. I called yesterday and they are leaving a message for him to call me back. If he doesn't call in a week or so then I'll try again. Thanks so much.
Gray