Quote Originally Posted by jobob
[lecture mode on]

I'm very glad you do that, Grog, but with all due respect, first and foremost we stop at stop lights because that's the law - when we're cycling on the road, we are vehicles and we are subject to the same laws as other vehicles. We have to behave like a car driver because we are subject to the same laws as a car driver would be.

And apart from it being the law, when we behave like car drivers we are acting predictably - and that's essential for safe cycling.

[/lecture mode off]
Isn't it exactly what I said I did and promote? I did not specify I did it because it is the law, which I obviously know, and frankly it is not the only or even the main reason why I do it (usually laws are there for a purpose). I do it for my own safety and that of others whom I share the road with. That's what first and foremost to me. But the point is: I still do it.

Frankly, I am not sure acting "first and foremost" because a given behavior is prescribed by "the law" is always the best thing to do. For instance, the code in Quebec specifies that whenever there is a cycling path we must use it. It is the LAW. Well in may situations it turns out that our cycling paths are outright dangerous because they run countertraffic and many cyclists get hit every year right there. So I obey instead to another article of the same law that specifies that I must behave just like any other vehicle, and I ride with the traffic, and the behavior of drivers around me (quite respectful when I'm on the road, quite careless if I'm riding countertraffic on the bike path where they least expect me to be) quite convinces me that it is, in such a situation, the safest thing to do. You are quite right about predictability as a very important value when driving any kind of vehicle.

(Plus: many laws of the past and present were/are outright discriminatory and, fortunately, there are people disobeying them and trying to make things change.)

I have noticed, however, and you certainly have noticed too, that 95% of cyclists do NOT obey to traffic lights nor to stop signs. That was what my point was about: acting as a vehicle to be respected as a legitimate vehicle on the road.