Shifter question

[VeloVT]

Different levels of shifters can have different mechanical design. The throw to shift can be shorter/longer and pressure needed can be lighter/heavier. The shape of the hood can be vastly different.

I have heard that DA shifters require a very light touch to shift compared to Ultegra and I have seen that the DA hoods are narrower. Both of these being great for small hands. I don't know how Ultegra compares to 105.

yeah, this is true. The 2008 Ultegra on my new bike is much lighter-shifting than the 2004 Ultegra on my old bike (which felt about the same as the 2005 105 on my cross bike -- both require a big shove to shift into the large chainring, whereas with the newer Ultegra shifting into the big chainring is basically the same as shifting the rear der.). But this is a separate issue from shift quality I think (how smoothly, quickly and reliably the chain actually shifts). I was wondering more whether different shifters actually affect those issues as much as derailleurs do? It seemed like the original question was more about shift quality than shift feel (though I definitely agree that shift feel is important), and there certainly are differences in shift quality between different components.

[madscot13]

Hijack on:
And...MadScot: Check out: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/m...615089423.html
It's in Fredneck....maybe Zen can scope it out for you....if it's still available.
Hijack off.

Excuse the hijack but...Mad, I had no idea you had downtube shifters! maybe you should treat yourself to that new bike

MadScot - how 'bout moving to bar-end shifters ($25 for bar-end adaptors) or turning your shifters into thumbies like Rivendell sells kits for?
http://www.rivbike.com/search/run?qu...&commit=Search

this has become a thread hijack! Zen was wondering about down tube shifters earlier; they still exist and are a pain to shift with- especially when you are moving uphill.

My bike was designed as a touring bike, and therefore the components sacrificed durability and constancy for the more creature comforts, if I can call it that. I was thinking about moving to the bar ends, but I tried to consider why I wanted to switch in the first place. I would like to shift with greater ease and especially without knocking my knees or having to stop pedaling. But the bar ends still sound appealing since they should be trouble free just like my down tube shifters.

And 7 you are pure evil. That bike looks really nice, and I was seriously thinking of getting another bike. For that price that would be the upgrade on my trek 520. However, I'm a short 5'2" and even the small might be a bit painful for me however. But at that price I could switch out the wheels.... Or maybe not.

[boy in a kilt]

I've ridden with down tubes, bar ends and brifters (I hate that word, but there is no other generic term for the STI/Ergopower shifters).

The only thing I miss about down tube shifters were their simplicity. When indexing started to become common in the mid-late 80's, I could never quite get used to it so I tended to run them in friction mode. Didn't have a bunch of springs and lever to mess with. You had that screw that doubled as the index/friction mode on the right side.

When I made the jump to STI in 1992, I fell in love with it. One of my physics professors in college said he didn't see what all the commotion was about, but he made the change to find out for himself. As it turns out, he found he was shifting more.

I've never been a huge fan of bar ends. My big complaint is that I tended to hit my knees on the things which hurt and frequently put me in a gear I didn't want to be in.

But, a lot of the rando riders like them (down tubes or bar cons) because of their simplicity. If a brifter breaks down 500km into 600km ride, you had better be able to fix it yourself or accept the DQ for getting it fixed somewhere.

Personally, I'm a big fan of Ergopower. They use a different mechanism than STI (neither of which I understand). They have a crisper feel and more trim than STI. And you can completely rebuild Ergopower shifters which is not the case with shimano.

However, with that all said, if you switch to Ergopower, you had best plan on using a Campy cassette. I have Phil Wood hubs which aren't compatible with Campy cassettes. The spacing on the Ultegra 10 speed cassette is similar but not identical to Campy so while it works, it's not quite right. My wife's drive train is all Campy and her shifting is much crisper than mine.

Here's why that is an issue. Shimano's widest range 10 speed cassette is a 12-27. Personally, I'd like a 12-30 but I take what I can get.

[SadieKate]

I've ridden with down tubes, bar ends and brifters (I hate that word, but there is no other generic term for the STI/Ergopower shifters).

I've never been a huge fan of bar ends. My big complaint is that I tended to hit my knees on the things which hurt and frequently put me in a gear I didn't want to be in.

Ditto and I just can't operate them with my small hands. At least not comfortably in high speed or very low speed situations. Just can't get quite the leverage I like.

However, with that all said, if you switch to Ergopower, you had best plan on using a Campy cassette. I have Phil Wood hubs which aren't compatible with Campy cassettes. The spacing on the Ultegra 10 speed cassette is similar but not identical to Campy so while it works, it's not quite right. My wife's drive train is all Campy and her shifting is much crisper than mine.

Here's why that is an issue. Shimano's widest range 10 speed cassette is a 12-27. Personally, I'd like a 12-30 but I take what I can get.

JTEK SHIFTMATE FOR THE BEST IN ITALIAN-SUSHI SHIFTING!
http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

Stocked by the best shops to work with Campy which has a 29 as their largest 10 spd cog.

PS - SRAM at least makes an 11-28 10 spd cassette.

[RoadBunner]

Don't mind the hijacking I like reading about all of it to learn about everything!

Well...I tossed and turned all night thinking about the Onix. Kept wondering if there was something I should have asked about to fix the stretched-out feeling. Went to LBS and talked to someone and they switched out the handlebars to smaller ones. Made a heap of a difference! The guy even commented that the stock handlebars were pretty huge. The change brought my hand position in over a cm without messing with the stem length (he was reluctant to go that route saying it would make the bike twitchy).

So I ended up buying the Onix Dama! I hope I made the right decision. I got a discount so the price ended up being pretty close to the Trek, especially considering the Onix has more Ultegra SL and I'm more in love with the look of the bike.

I will say the Trek fit was very comfy and now, even if I don't feel stretched out so much, I feel like the Onix has more aggressive geometry which I'm hoping is something that I just need to get used to after only riding upright bikes.

I got clipless pedals put on but no shoes yet. Wasn't a fan of any of the shoes that the store had. So my next mission is to get a pair of shoes then the LBS will put the cleats on for me. Can't wait to get riding!!

The thing about going to so many LBS's is that they all have different opinions and sometimes it's hard to know who is right and who isn't or what shade of gray to follow.

The LBS I ended up buying from doesn't have the best down-the-road-we'll-take-care-of-you policy (first 3 months versus life-time from other stores), but I have found some other very nice LBS's that I wouldn't hesitate to take the bike in for service in the future.

Sorry so long-winded! Thanks everyone for there help so far. I'm sure I'll have lots of more questions soon.

[boy in a kilt]

JTEK SHIFTMATE FOR THE BEST IN ITALIAN-SUSHI SHIFTING!
http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

Stocked by the best shops to work with Campy which has a 29 as their largest 10 spd cog.

PS - SRAM at least makes an 11-28 10 spd cassette.

I've thought about the shiftmate and I may go with that option. It's one of those things that hasn't actually bothered me enough to fix.

The 11-28 is a bit of a conundrum to me. Previously, I had a 28-42-52 and a 11-34 (9-speed obviously). I noticed that while the 28x34 was good for certain circumstances (like riding my bike fully loaded over the Cascades), I didn't use it for much else and when I did get into that gear while climbing, I was pretty much stuck. Likewise, the 52x11 was only used for 50 mph+ descents.

I spent some time thinking about it and decided if I could part ways with my bailout gears and the hyperdrive (as in "Making the jump to hyperspace..."), I could probably come up with a more useful combination. Hence the move to a 30-40-50 front and 12-27 rear. For 99% of my riding, I'm happy. At the low end, I can make a pretty smooth transition from climbing speeds to normal riding speeds. Also, it's made me a stronger climber for obvious reasons.

There are times when it would be nice to have something just a little bit smaller. If you know of someone that makes a 28 tooth inner chain ring that is compatible with a Campy triple, I'm all ears.

[SadieKate]

TA 74 mm Bolt Circle Diameter triple innermost ring for Campagnolo cranks, you say?

My favorite seller is Branford Bike in Seattle but it looks like he may be out of them. Since you're close tho', give him a call.
http://www.branfordbike.com/cgi-bin/...75171608#item8

You can try Peter White --
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/chainrings.asp

maillotpois, I can hear you sniggering . . . . .

PS - I run a 26-40-50 Campy crank and MP runs a 28-42-53

[boy in a kilt]

TA 74 mm Bolt Circle Diameter triple innermost ring for Campagnolo cranks, you say?

My favorite seller is Branford Bike in Seattle but it looks like he may be out of them. Since you're close tho', give him a call.
http://www.branfordbike.com/cgi-bin/...75171608#item8

You can try Peter White --
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/chainrings.asp

maillotpois, I can hear you sniggering . . . . .

PS - I run a 26-40-50 Campy crank and MP runs a 28-42-53

I'll give that one a look once I have the money to drop on TA chain rings. I'd completely forgotten about them. Thanks.

[madscot13]

this has become a thread hijack! Zen was wondering about down tube shifters earlier; they still exist and are a pain to shift with- especially when you are moving uphill.

My bike was designed as a touring bike, and therefore the components sacrificed durability and constancy for the more creature comforts, if I can call it that. I was thinking about moving to the bar ends, but I tried to consider why I wanted to switch in the first place. I would like to shift with greater ease and especially without knocking my knees or having to stop pedaling. But the bar ends still sound appealing since they should be trouble free just like my down tube shifters.

And 7 you are pure evil. That bike looks really nice, and I was seriously thinking of getting another bike. For that price that would be the upgrade on my trek 520. However, I'm a short 5'2" and even the small might be a bit painful for me however. But at that price I could switch out the wheels.... Or maybe not.

does that bike look like a compact? what does that exactly mean?

[KatyLady]

I looked at one last fall. Tried real hard to talk myself into it because it was so pretty . . . but it just didn't fit. Maybe if my LBS guy had been as good as yours I would be riding around on a beautiful Ordea instead of waiting . . and waiting . . . and waiting for the custom steel I have on order. I'm sure you will be happy with the Ultegra. I have it on my current bike and would have stayed with Ultegra if I hadn't run across a really good deal for a Dura Ace set that I plan to put on the new steel steed.

Congrats again!