Gender and pro cycling

[MightyMitre]

A woman I know who is a scientist was once told by her college counselor "you should major in chemistry, it's more like cooking"

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

People should be allowed to do what ever they want to do. If a girl wants to be a coal miner or a lumberjack for example then let her.

However, I think there's different jobs that men and women are better at. I've been doing a lot of job seeking lately and 95 % of the peolpe I've come across working for recruitment agencies, have been women. These are commission based jobs so a lot of them work very hard and are very motivated, but helping people find a job / career calls for a lot of the skills that women are good at - listening, having empathy and being good at talking!

As this thread is all about tolerance and acceptance I'm not going to start 'boy bashing'. They're great too.... most of the time



O/T
Hi tlkiwi - yeh, last Monday was great - v.sunny. Are you over here for work or for hols?

[spazzdog]

Idealist that I am, I think its more than tolerance... its acceptance.

I mean, I tolerate bad weather, office dress codes, traffic jams but I can't say I accept them. I can't stand any of them.

People however I try to accept. With all their differences. I've always believed that no one is superior because of gender, race, religion, political affiliation, etc. I believe we each are more in control of our future than we realize sometimes.

A woman, a man, a woman that used to be a man, or vice versa, society pushes the "gender" thing. If everyone said "phhhhuuttt" to that, it would be great. Put babies in whatever color they look cute in, or when they are old enough whatever they like. I'm always confused by the desparation sometimes exhibited by parents to "be certain" people know the gender of the new baby (blue for boys, pink for girls). It's new, it's chubby, it has hair or it doesn't, its cute... when I'm gootchie-gooing all over the little punkin heads I certainly don't care if its a boy or girl. Course, I'd probably let them choose their own name when they got old enough.

I know... I'm odd. A very dear friend of mine who is oh so very astral/astrological/metaphysical based told me once I wasn't from this planet. That this was my first life on earth. Sometimes I think she was right...

spazz

[LBTC]

spazz, you and I have more in common than I realized! I mean, I've been called (and calling myself) spaz, for many years, but this whole tolerance vs. acceptance thing is something I thought only I had noticed. Just talked about it with another friend last weekend. It was the first she'd thought about it too.

I have learned, as I get older, I am less tolerant of the rednecks that live around here and all the judgemental mumbo-jumbo that goes with them (yes, I realize the irony of that, and I've come to accept it in myself). I also have noticed that I am more accepting of different ways of thinking, different lifestyles, different sexual orientation, etc, as long as I see evidence that a person is truly trying to find themselves and their true beliefs, etc, I have a lot of respect for them.

Life is irony. I spend each day learning to accept that all over again.



you rock, spazz! ever find yourself in British Columbia??

namaste,
~T~

[spazzdog]

Thanks LBTC! I was hesitant at first when I started this thread. I really appreciate everyone's involvement and responses.

As to B.C. - uh, where would you be; east or west Canada? I'm so very geographically challenged.

I've not been out of the U.S except once... Vancouver in 1990 for the Gay Games.

spazz

[LBTC]

Vancouver is in BC. I'll be there in two weeks to visit a friend. I'm a 5 hour north/east drive from there....
and we don't get nearly as much rain here!

here's to acceptance!

Namaste,
~T~

[singletrackmind]

http://www.boston.com/news/education...draw_fire?pg=2

The president of Harvard University, Lawrence H. Summers, drew a lot of criticism when he made the comment that innate differences between men and women might be one reason fewer women succeed in science and math careers. The above link is page 2 and contains the worst of what he said. He says he was misunderstood.

Maybe the science teacher picked up on what he had to say and decided then and forever after, girls just can't do science. I know a few news stations were treating it as gospel before critics bashed it but good. The damage a few words can do is frightening.

[snapdragen]

I know... I'm odd. A very dear friend of mine who is oh so very astral/astrological/metaphysical based told me once I wasn't from this planet. That this was my first life on earth. Sometimes I think she was right... spazz

Not that odd, I had a friend tell me the same thing! Maybe we're from the same planet?

[snapdragen]

LBTC - one of my favorite places in BC is the Kootenay Mtns, Nelson/Kaslo area. How far are you from there?

Ohh! Another cool place for a TE gathering!!!

[Melody]

I know, for me, I just accept people they way they are. Everyone has quirks or idiosynchroncies (sp?) that will drive other people nuts. I know I have 'em (I talk too much and repeat stories... over and over and over and ...) but these are what make people unique, not cookie cutter. I treasure my friends and their uniqueness, even if I don't understand or agree with them.

I was had two friends who were satanists, and being Roman Catholic, you'd think I'd be at odds. We never discussed religion. They just believed in a higher power that was different from the one I believed in. I didn't agree with their religion, but I did agree that they had the right to believe what they wanted. They were good people (bf & gf). They used to volunteer on a regular basis at various shelters. As someone once said, "Good done in the name of Evil is still Good, just as Evil done in the name of Good, is still Evil." Just our definition of Good & Evil were reversed. heh.

Mel

[Trek420]

snapdragen "Not that odd, I had a friend tell me the same thing! Maybe we're from the same planet? "

snap, I'm just reading this and looking at your bunny avatar and cracking up. Beam me up,Scottie I wanna go to *your* planet!

[LBTC]

spazz and snap...hmmmm. My brother told me he knew where all 4 of our siblings had been before this life, but me he didn't know. he thought I might be "new". doesn't really explain how many people I already knew the first time I met them, though, does it? I think buddhist monk thrown off a cliff....but I dunno...

anyway, we're a good 6 hours out of the kootenays / nelson area. pain in the rear to get to from here, actually, but gorgeous country. who knows? lots of our plans with other people seem to be unraveling this year. maybe we'll head that way this summer.....anyone from there on this board?

Namaste,
~T~

[Irulan]

spazz and snap...hmmmm. My brother told me he knew where all 4 of our siblings had been before this life, but me he didn't know. he thought I might be "new". doesn't really explain how many people I already knew the first time I met them, though, does it? I think buddhist monk thrown off a cliff....but I dunno...

anyway, we're a good 6 hours out of the kootenays / nelson area. pain in the rear to get to from here, actually, but gorgeous country. who knows? lots of our plans with other people seem to be unraveling this year. maybe we'll head that way this summer.....anyone from there on this board?

Namaste,
~T~

LOL, I"m closer to Nelson, and I'm still in the states. British Columbia is really, really big. Really big.

Irulan

[DirtDiva]

O/T
Hi tlkiwi - yeh, last Monday was great - v.sunny. Are you over here for work or for hols?

Both: I'm yet another twenty-something Kiwi over here on a two-year working holiday visa.

[chelle]

Hi everyone, Michelle here.

I've been reading all of your responses to this thread and I must say that this is rare. What usually happens is people make a bunch of off base assumptions about me and then top it off by calling me "it" or "thing". I usually only respond when the thread is respectful and this has been.

As I'm sure you can imagine there is much more to any story than can be printed in a magazine. Even if you have seen the film "100percentwoman" you still don't know everything that went on over the two years that the film was made. I have received an incredible amount of support from people who share a similar history or from people who were just touched in some way. That being said there are many people out ther who wish that I would just go away. Intollerance is still prevellant even if most of us wish that it wasn't.

For the past couple of years it's been my role to not only be a professional athlete but to also be the "posterchild for trans athlete's". Balancing these has been very difficult and I always hope that I've made the right decision to be public. I'm not sure that I'll ever know.

I certainly do not expect everyone to agree with me being able to race but I do expect people to inform themselves before making any judgements. Most of what has been said here is correct. Loss of muscle mass, decrease in bone density, decrease in red blood cell production and changes in brain chemistry all contribute to my "case". If I thought that I had an unfair advantage I would never compete. In sport we all try to use our natural advantages. In my case I have several attributes that I feel make me a very good downhiller and probably not a good xc racer. Sport is never an equal playing field and the notion that there is a purity to sport is a dream. Everyone can ride a bike, many can compete but few will ever make it to the elite ranks. There ae many factors that make a great athlete, dedication, skill, natural ability, luck. There will always be some who excell is certain sports and others who do not. I am just very fortunate that I get to compete and one day I hope that having an athlete with a trans history in the field won't be a big deal.

Thanks to you all for this disscusion and your support.

Always smilin

Michelle Dumaresq

[Melody]

Hi Michelle! Wow. Never expected someone we were talking about to post here. That's pretty cool. Anyway, wanted to say Welcome to the TE Forums Taking a page out of CM's book, you should say hi and post in the "Getting to Know You" thread.

Mel