i got yelled at today

[Duck on Wheels]

So now they want me to contact one of the maufacturers (the one who has still not been paid) to get the molds I had made sent to them. They'd "greatly appreciate any assistance". Sheesh! What a noive!

How does this sound for my response: "Since Bill referred to me as a "mealy mouth *****" and a "f***ing c**t" (among other things), in our conversation this morning, I am no longer wanting any involvement with either of you."?

Or, should I just call the guy, have the molds sent, and be done with it?

Just tell them that the way to "get those molds loose" from where they're stuck is to pay for them, and that you are not about to do that since you haven't been paid yourself.

In fact, call the folks who have the molds, and say that since these folks owe you for them you'd like to have them back so you can hang onto them until you get paid.

[redrhodie]

Thanks for all the advice! I decided to not respond to their email requesting help in dealing with the manufacturer. I'm done!

More than him being a con-artist, I think he's a narcissist. He definitely has a grandiose sense of self and sense of entitlement that he should have outgrown by kindergarden.

Zen, I have good records including photocopies of all the pieces I designed, as well as every email sent by them and to them, which includes a lot of the issues (including how much and when I would be paid) that would have been addressed in the written contract that I never received. I wonder if this has any legal merit if, down the road, I discover they're selling the pieces I designed? At this point, I think it's unlikely that they'll be able to pull their act together (find some other poor schmuck to manipulate into producing a sellable product!), so it may be a moot point.

I had the best ride today. I rode as slow as I could, which was new for me. I saw views I had never noticed before on my regular route. Where'd that horse farm come from? Never noticed that before! Didn't think about them once. My life is back !

[redrhodie]

Just tell them that the way to "get those molds loose" from where they're stuck is to pay for them, and that you are not about to do that since you haven't been paid yourself.

In fact, call the folks who have the molds, and say that since these folks owe you for them you'd like to have them back so you can hang onto them until you get paid.

I did that today. The manufacturer received their check (yay!), but said he wouldn't send the molds until it cleared.

[Duck on Wheels]

OK. I guess. But I thought you made the molds and hadn't been paid for them. That would mean that you sent them on to the next step in the process on the understanding that you would, soon, be paid. Meanwhile, those molds are yours and are only on loan. So if it were me and my business, I'd hang onto them.

[Trek420]

I did that today. The manufacturer received their check (yay!), but said he wouldn't send the molds until it cleared.

He needs to wait until you are paid. Does the Mfr. know that you haven't? Once he sends them on .... you never will.

Again, not a lawyer, don't play one on TV but creative work is work and if he sends it on it's like sending work he doesn't own which could be a liability issue to the Mfr. Your client is bypassing you to get as much done for free.

And he'll do that to any other artist along the way.

If he can get the mold without paying you....then he'll go on and get it built but sc*ew the packaging designer or get it shipped but rip off the cost of materials and so on. All to get it done by the holiday ah....the spirit of Christmas

Don't enable him, work with the manufacturer who is already suspicious of his methods.

Neither of you will ever do work for Mr Sociopathic Cheapskate again, but if he wants to work with you again you can be a team on this.

[Mr. Bloom]

I've been in business for 23 years...

It's been my experience that the one who holds "the molds" ALWAYS gets paid...it's kind of a legal "ransom" relationship.

I ditto the other feedback above. I think the key at this point is "just let go"...which is easier said than done (at least in my experience...).

[Trek420]

I ditto the other feedback above. I think the key at this point is "just let go"...which is easier said than done (at least in my experience...).

I regret that this may be an expensive life lesson learned. I was in the graphic design field for about 12 years, I love art and anything related to it but it's unfortunate that for many creative folk one of the first experiences of success is getting ripped off. As in
"Hey, someone will pay me to do what i love....well maybe not".

Ask Mr. Screamer "Do you work for free? Right, I don't either"

Words I watch out for to this day "this is so much fun for you" translation "this isn't work, it's play so you'll do this free, right?"

I learned:

never to work on spec and to this day I don't do "we're looking for drawings and we'll pay the best one" regardless of the prize.

never let your original work out of your sight, I don't do "oh just drop off your portfolio we just want to look". Yeah right, you want to look and have YOUR people steal the ideas.

never work without a written contract or an agent you trust.

It's a shame it has to be like this. If I could be as intuitive, flexible and creative in the business side as I can be in drawing I'd still be doing it.

[redrhodie]

Sorry to be so confusing. For designing, I was to be paid a % of sales (according to the contract I never received!). Since the product was still in development, there were no sales as it didn't get to that point. That's why I haven't been paid. In additon to the percent, I was to be paid an hourly rate for labor, also to be paid when the vendors paid for the product.

They paid for materials, including the molds (if their check clears).

Here's a simplified version (maybe?) of my quandary:

A sculptor is commissioned by a woman to make a bronze statue of her husband. He only finishes one leg, then decides he's done. Can the woman, if she's paid for the bronze, keep the leg, even though she hasn't paid the sculptor?

I wonder if I have a leg to stand? oh, no! that's bad!

[redrhodie]

I've been in business for 23 years...

It's been my experience that the one who holds "the molds" ALWAYS gets paid...it's kind of a legal "ransom" relationship.

I ditto the other feedback above. I think the key at this point is "just let go"...which is easier said than done (at least in my experience...).

In my field, and this is the fun and ironic part....molds are cheap and can be made from the samples they already have. They don't know they don't need the molds. They're pretty clueless.

Yeah, I'm letting this go. I'm pretty sure they won't be able to make it work anyway. It's a small industry where reputation is everything. They've already blown that.

[Mr. Bloom]

It's a small industry where reputation is everything. They've already blown that.

So, can you tell us what the product is so we can organize a universal boycott?

[r900]

I read this and it has been on my mind all day. I'm wondering if you could get a lien on this product or even the molds since it was your input that was the impetus to the molds existence. I would be willing to ask the moldmaker if they have had experience in applying for liens on products that they have made. I know that there are lots of different liens but I certainly wouldn't know. It would be great to have a voice-mail recording once he found you put a lien on the molds! Judges don't like bullies.Maybe this is over the top, but it is fun to think about being a little vindictave to these bottom feeders! I support your decision whatever you decide. They really deserve drunken hecklers at their cabaret performance. Too bad I don't live closer! go ride a bike . have some fun.

[Zen]

i find the idea of this man being a cabaret performer so intriguing and amusing.

[Mr. Bloom]

'vat good is sit-ting alone in your room?
Come here the music play!
Life is a cabaret old chum...
Come to the ca-bar-et!

[smilingcat]

Hi rr,

It's best to not interact with the jerk. The more you engage with him, its more of an opportunity for the jerk to sue you. If he does get hold of you, be pleasant and maintain your composure, make sure you document everything. Your excuse to him is that without contract AND A contract whose terms you can agree, you can not do any further work.

If he does produce a amiable contract, you can still rebuff him by saying that your work schedule has been booked up and you can not work on his project till next year. This is extremely important. And it must be in a written communication. This will show the court that you are not biased or taking a punitive action against him.

-----------

I'm sometimes bit slow but the mold was made per who's direction? And who's drawing or specification was used to make this mold? It's inconsequential as to who the final customer is. The only thing that matters to the manufacturer is who requested it, who's drawing is it.

Legally, the manufacturer can't release the mold to a third party. They'll need proof of release from you. Don't give it because you have no contract. In b2b, oral agreement means nothing since neither party can prove or disprove.

Don't answer his phone call. Record message on the answering machine. This is one of few time when recording a message is considered legal and can be used in courts in some jurisdiction. The caller knows he is leaving a message so he can't claim that the message was recorded without his knowledge.

-------------

Will he be nerve wracked at the caberet? Definitly not. They are different breed all together. The bullies rarely get that OMG feeling. Their fight/flight reaction is always fight.

smilingcat

[indigoiis]

Mean people suck.