Faster?

[indysteel]

I thought I'd share one of my prouder cycling moments of late. Just a bit of background. I started riding last summer, in part because I was dating someone who was an avid and strong cyclist. He made it look fun and I needed to get off my butt. Two bikes later, I had been bitten by the bug pretty badly and was really enjoying my new life as a "cyclist." But I wasn't in the best of shape and had a long road, so to speak, ahead of me.

My BF and I rode together a few times before the relationship, sadly, ended last fall. I knew he was pretty fast, so riding with me was a bit of an indulgence on his part. He'd ride with his friends in the morning and then we'd ride afterwards. I was more or less his "cool down," and I noted with some degree of chagrin that he marked the rides as "leisure" rather than "training" on Bikejournal.com True enough, but I hated seeing it in print.

Fast forward many months. My ex and I are still friends or, as I like to say, "friends light." We see one another at club rides and email one another about cycling related stuff. I begin to notice on Bikejournal that I was riding more miles than he was (although I have to admit that part of that is because he's also training for sprint tris). In any event, I have lots more miles and a fair amount of training under my belt than I did last summer. I've gotten faster and stronger, and he's made a few comments to that effect when we've seen each other at rides.

A few weeks ago, I showed up at a small group ride and much to my surprise, he and his best riding buddy--who races--were there too. While we've seen each other at (large) club rides, this was the first time since we had ended things that we were actually set to ride together. The day before, the three of us had done a rather tough climbing club ride and we were all just a little beat, but it was a beautiful day and I, for one, felt ready to go.

Anyway, the ride started with a warmup on our local MUT. Then we hit the road. We started the ride with about 15 people, all but four of whom were men. We got in a double paceline and the speeds starting ramping up until we were cruising around 24 mph. I even did a pull or two at that speed. Bit by bit, the group started to thin out. Three of the other women fell off as did some of the guys who are generally part of the faster packs at club rides.

But there I stayed. Forty-five miles later, I finished with the lead group, including my ex and his friend. I'm sure it wasn't the fastest of rides for them, but it was fast enough to illustrate that I've come a long way since last summer. While impressing him is not why I ride or ride hard, it was still a red letter day for me.

And P.S.: His Bikejournal entry listed it as a "training" ride.

[Geonz]

I think knowing your own psychology is critical here. What kind of situations motivate you, and what kinds of situations discourage you?

SOme people are seriously motivated by "going out and getting dropped." They get determined and scrabble their way into the mix. For other folks, that gets 'em going back home and staying there. And, of course, sometimes you have *some* control over that. I try to figure out what I'm going to do to keep from getting discouraged if X or Y happens, ahead of time. However, when it comes to bicycling... I was used to having to work twice as hard to get half as good, and so getting pretty good just working as hard as everybody else had me ecstatic and still surprises me (honest, *that's* why we were going so much faster than the advertised speed Monday... I couldn't believe I was going that fast... ) But for heaven's sake... it's just bicycle riding, not the Great Judgemetn Day )

[indysteel]

I think knowing your own psychology is critical here. What kind of situations motivate you, and what kinds of situations discourage you?

SOme people are seriously motivated by "going out and getting dropped." They get determined and scrabble their way into the mix. For other folks, that gets 'em going back home and staying there.

Good points. I got very discouraged last year when one of the women I had ridden successfully with most of the fall suddenly had me eating her dust after she got a new bike in December. Normally, I don't think the bike makes THAT big of difference, but in her case, she went from a really heavy, ill-fitting bike to a full carbon LeMond. I had a few really bad rides where getting left behind or struggling to keep up sent me home in tears. It had never felt the least bit competitive with her, but I was afraid that I'd lost my riding buddy. It sucked.

But what was first kind of discouraging, ultimately proved to be a big motivator. We don't ride as much together anymore because she works a lot of weekends and my guess is that she's still faster than me on any given day, but I'm more at peace with it because I'm pushed my own limits--and that's really what matters more. I can climb better than she can, too.

[smilingcat]

I'be been just skimming through some of the comments.

Like RoadRaven says, twice the srength doesn't make you go twice the speed. Speed and power is not one for one. To go twice the speed, you need about 4 times the strength/power.

So when you first start riding, going from 10mph to 15 mph doesn't take much. trying to improve from 15mph to 20mph will take a lot more. And if you want to go from 20 to 25MPH, you really need to train super hard and do things you don't want to.

It wasn't all that unusual for me to be chucking biscuits* on hill reps years ago. But that's how hard I needed to push to get my speed up to 26mph for two hour strech.

And there really isn't a substitute to hard training.

the other thing to remember about training on your own is that we all tend to work out on areas where we are good at and sloff off on areas we are not. This is where having a coach really helps. They make you practice and work out on your weak area.

If you are having problems on hills you need to do hill reps.

sorry for the bad news
smilingcat
* pull over to the side of the road and hrowing up all the meanwhile you keep cranking away

[missymaya]

I'm glad someone asked this question because I've been wanting to get faster but it's getting harder to do so. My avg is about 20 mph by myself, but I've been riding with a superfast group to gain speed (I usually get dropped but I've realized now that I've been getting dropped later and later). I need help with gaining strength on hills. I do fine on rollers but if I want to race (and most races are planned north of me) I need to do some climbs. Problem is, I live in Orlando so hills or anything resembling hills really don't exist. I know to train into the wind but there's very little wind right now. What do I do?

[RoadRaven]

But there I stayed. Forty-five miles later, I finished with the lead group, including my ex and his friend. I'm sure it wasn't the fastest ride of rides for them, but it was fast enough to illustrate that I've come a long way since last summer. While impressing him is not why I ride or ride hard, it was still a red letter day for me.
And P.S.: His Bikejournal entry listed it as a "training" ride.

This is such an awesome account Indy - excellent "real-life" example, and such a clear account of how pushing yourself consistently gives VERY satisfactory results!

[Whip]

Great topic. Just want to jump on the "got to put in the work" theme.

While it is true that we can get a bit faster just by riding and keeping at it - it is truly amazing what just a little concentrated effort can do for your speed.

The trick to getting faster obviously is being able to ride harder for longer and one of the best ways to learn that is by doing one or two interval sessions a week. The interval session just below, at and above your LT will help you get more comfortable going harder and help you recover faster - which (at least to me) is one of the keys to being able to survive the constant surges and attacks in a fast group ride. I know everyone is training with Power Meters these days, but I can't afford one so I still use Heart Rate for my intervals. NOTHING helped me get faster ... uh, faster ... then intervals - including the hill repeats RoadRaven talked about ... AND...

Riding with people who are faster than me - especially if you can organize rides with people who are faster, but are committed to riding with you - and basically stopping every so often so you can catch up - not easy to find, but if you can do it, I recommend it because that way you don't just get dropped once, you get dropped and have to chase like twenty or more times. The trick is to keep chasing - don't give up. It took me a long time to listen to my husband who sounded like a broken record "ride with faster people, ride with faster people" but doing exactly that brought me from a 11-13 average to being able to do 21-24 in race and 15-19 on my own. It was really hard for me to get there, but it was so worth it.

Of course, if you do this kind of training, recovery is even more important - one or two monster efforts a week and then ride slow. A lot of coaches say that one of the biggest mistakes cyclists make is not going hard enough on hard days and not going easy enough on easy days.

[indysteel]

This is such an awesome account Indy - excellent "real-life" example, and such a clear account of how pushing yourself consistently gives VERY satisfactory results!

Thanks. I always get a big thinking about that ride!

[Starfish]

The trick is to keep chasing - don't give up. It took me a long time to listen to my husband who sounded like a broken record "ride with faster people, ride with faster people" but doing exactly that brought me from a 11-13 average to being able to do 21-24 in race and 15-19 on my own. It was really hard for me to get there, but it was so worth it.

Of course, if you do this kind of training, recovery is even more important - one or two monster efforts a week and then ride slow. A lot of coaches say that one of the biggest mistakes cyclists make is not going hard enough on hard days and not going easy enough on easy days.

Wow, what impressive improvement. I hover around the 13 mph average, so this gives me a lot of hope.

A question: Is this kind of speed improvement compatible with training for longer distances with weekly loooong rides, or to see this kind of improvement, would I need to do it when I'm really not trying to increase my long rides much (to get in the recovery)?

[Whip]

Hi,

Okay, so I am not a trainer, and maybe some people with more long-distance experience could better answer this - BUT for what it is worth, I do think they are very compatible - maybe even both necessary together - because I imagine that training long and training hard complement each other. Here's a sample training week DURING TRAINING SEASON from my coach:

Monday-Recover (30minutes-1hour)
Tuesday-Invervals (1-1.5hours)
Wednesday-Intervals or Aerobic (1-1.5hours)
Thursday-Aerobic (2hours) or Intervals 1-1.5hours)
Friday-Recover (30minutes-1hour)
Saturday-RACE or Long Hard Ride (2-6hours)
Sunday-RACE or Long Aerobic Ride (2-6hours)

So basically, this plan tells me that I am both building base and distance while training for strength and speed.

In the winter - almost all rides are aerobic - and longer.

I have been out ridden by women who do not ride fast but are just so darn fit can keep going and going. I poop out in long rides, but when I first started riding, working on speed helped my comfort level and speed in centuries. My first century took 8.5 hours (flat) then I was able to do a century in 5 hours and 20 minutes (flat, too) - and that was while I was training for speed.

Again, I don't want to make a recommendation, but if I were just starting out, I might do one interval day during the week, one fast group ride on the weekend (even if it's longer) and then ride long on Sunday, rest Monday and Friday, and do medium aerobic rides Wednesday and Thursday. If you are new to intervals and such, it's good to give your body a chance to adjust and to avoid overtraining - even the one session a week will help.

[Starfish]

Whip, thanks. I read and read and read training books and so forth, but to hear actual examples from another woman really helps.

I am really encouraged that you are so fast now, and yet your first flat century was 8.5 hours. My first flat century was 8 hours, and I keep wondering if it could be possible to really, really improve.

I know we are all different, with different genetics, lifestyles, etc. But, your examples and personal improvements are very inspiring.

[Starfish]

Hey, after a spring of working on climbing, and after 2 weeks off the bike, I just went out and did 15 miles in under an hour. Cyclometer says 16.4 mph. That's fast for me. This was a flat ride, tailwind out, headwind back. A few stop signs. Not a TT, but I more or less hammered it, just stopping for 2 minutes halfway in to suck down a gel.

Kind of has me encouraged that if I can shake my extra 30 pounds, find a bike that isn't a 24 lb sport-tourer, and keep training, maybe I can get faster!

Sure do appreciate this forum and all the inspiration and knowledge.

[coyote]

Alright, I've been going the same route for the past 3 years, at pretty much the same time, on the same bike. It appeared to me that I've not been able to ride as fast as I had been. So, this thread appeared at the appropriate time. I've taken some of the things you all have suggested and my speed is increasing. I've changed up my route, and tried some sprints.

So, thanks for the info.

[7rider]

Riding with people who are faster than me - especially if you can organize rides with people who are faster, but are committed to riding with you - and basically stopping every so often so you can catch up - not easy to find, but if you can do it, I recommend it because that way you don't just get dropped once, you get dropped and have to chase like twenty or more times. The trick is to keep chasing - don't give up. It took me a long time to listen to my husband who sounded like a broken record "ride with faster people, ride with faster people" but doing exactly that brought me from a 11-13 average to being able to do 21-24 in race and 15-19 on my own. It was really hard for me to get there, but it was so worth it.

I'm going to be doing this very thing this Saturday...riding with the "a/b" riders on an organized ride where I WILL be dropped, and will have to give chase over and over again. My normal "C" group rides are around 17 mph. This Saturday ride will be over a longer (hillier) course at around 19. There are 2 or 3 re-group points, and they claim to be kind to the newbies. I figure, "Whatever doesn't kill me, only makes me stronger!"

[indysteel]

Whip and others, can any of you recommend a basic "intervals" routine? I have yet to train in that way but I keep thinking that I should. The group training rides I do on Tuesdays and Thursdays have been good for me as far as increasing speed and teaching paceline skills, but I'm not always in the mood for them. I'd like to switch one of the days out and do intervals instead, but the more something feels like "exercise" to me, the more unlikely that I'll do it or do it for long, so I have to keep it fun and kind of simple.....

Thanks.

K-