Faster?

[mimitabby]

Karen
two things. I'd say my average (NOT on hills) is under 12mph. (read my earlier post on this thread)
on hills.... it is miserably slow as we've already discussed.
HOWEVER, my dh was saying to me; just wait those hills that have been bullying you around aren't going to be so bad anymore.
So I rode to work yesterday and going home there's this 8% grade that always bites me. My legs are stiff and sore from Saturday. I start going up the rise, my legs are screaming, but... what? I was done with the hill without the normal hystrionics!!! even sore; that big climb diminished my commute climb!

Raleighdon made a goal last year of some insane number of climbing miles. As a result, he is now faster all over. So as much as we hate the hills, they are our friends. The more hill work we can do, the faster we're going to get.

And a good lighter bike helps too. (Although Raleighdon was riding his 40 lb bike saturday and he was still circling me!)

[SouthernBelle]

If your average hasn't improved, even though you feel your skill has improved, perhaps it is because you are now tackling bigger hills?? If you are progressively tackling tougher routes, and hills you were afraid of before, your average might appear lower.

Um, or not.

[Kano]

Karen
two things. I'd say my average (NOT on hills) is under 12mph. (read my earlier post on this thread)

I remember reading you say that several times over the months. You got 'em too over there in the Seattle area: invisible hills! Those buggers are sneaky!

HOWEVER, my dh was saying to me; just wait those hills that have been bullying you around aren't going to be so bad anymore.
So I rode to work yesterday and going home there's this 8% grade that always bites me. My legs are stiff and sore from Saturday. I start going up the rise, my legs are screaming, but... what? I was done with the hill without the normal hystrionics!!! even sore; that big climb diminished my commute climb!
Raleighdon made a goal last year of some insane number of climbing miles. As a result, he is now faster all over. So as much as we hate the hills, they are our friends. The more hill work we can do, the faster we're going to get.

This is all very exciting -- the whole idea of climbing making ALL of our riding stronger, and that big hills make small hills more manageable, oh yippee, GREAT news!

Karen in Boise

[makbike]

I personally think the more your ride the stronger you become the faster you will go with time. Embrace where you are currently and set a reasonable goal for the week, month, and/or year.

I would also second, third, fourth the suggestions to ride with a group. Having someone to chase is a great motivational tool. I will often pick a group to follow, knowing I won't be able to ride with them for long. However, knowing they are out in front keeps me pumping away as I cruise along. Of course, see others ahead of me also gives me the drive to pick up the pace in an attempt to catch them and better yet pass them if at all possible (I'm a tad bit competitive).

Finally, don't get down on yourself - enjoy your time on your bike and remind yourself of the progress you have made thus far. Again, write down some goals, post them, review them and go for them.

Good luck and enjoy yourself!

[RoadRaven]

"Is it naturally going to happen as I ride more and more, getting stronger with each ride, and pushing myself a little bit more each time I ride, OR is it something you really have to work at?"

Despite being hairs lighter, Kano, you will have to work at it... and work and work and work... it just depends how much faster you want to be and if you have a "fastness level" at which you will be satisfied.

Initially improvements are quick to arrive, it feels easier, more comfortable, takes less effort to get somewhere more quickly. Once your body has adapted to the new demands, it settles in and if you want to go faster you have to push the level occasionally. I outlined a process for this in my first post (oh, and thank you Jiffer for your kind comment ).

The faster you want to go, the more wind resistence you face, therefore the more power your legs have to output in order to maintain or increase your speed. Think about how much faster you can go with no wind, as opposed to riding into a head wind... if you want to maintain the same speed as on a calm day you need to expend more energy...

Here's my example
I now time-trial on a flat course in good conditions at about 31kph. If I double my power output, I could ride at about 40kph, so to get where the level I want be (time-trialling at about 35kph), I need to increase my power output about 70% to achieve a 4-5kph increase in speed.

Now here's the rub... if I ride at 10kph and double my power output, I can ride at about 27-8kph... and increase of 17 kph!!!


On a hill its a matter of doing repetitions... start with two, then three, then five... and remember that each kilogram you lose off you ar your bike will make you 3 seconds faster on a 1km moderate climb
Hope that makes sense...

And to answer your question just one more time... Yes, sorry, but there is no way around it...

[indysteel]

I thought I'd share one of my prouder cycling moments of late. Just a bit of background. I started riding last summer, in part because I was dating someone who was an avid and strong cyclist. He made it look fun and I needed to get off my butt. Two bikes later, I had been bitten by the bug pretty badly and was really enjoying my new life as a "cyclist." But I wasn't in the best of shape and had a long road, so to speak, ahead of me.

My BF and I rode together a few times before the relationship, sadly, ended last fall. I knew he was pretty fast, so riding with me was a bit of an indulgence on his part. He'd ride with his friends in the morning and then we'd ride afterwards. I was more or less his "cool down," and I noted with some degree of chagrin that he marked the rides as "leisure" rather than "training" on Bikejournal.com True enough, but I hated seeing it in print.

Fast forward many months. My ex and I are still friends or, as I like to say, "friends light." We see one another at club rides and email one another about cycling related stuff. I begin to notice on Bikejournal that I was riding more miles than he was (although I have to admit that part of that is because he's also training for sprint tris). In any event, I have lots more miles and a fair amount of training under my belt than I did last summer. I've gotten faster and stronger, and he's made a few comments to that effect when we've seen each other at rides.

A few weeks ago, I showed up at a small group ride and much to my surprise, he and his best riding buddy--who races--were there too. While we've seen each other at (large) club rides, this was the first time since we had ended things that we were actually set to ride together. The day before, the three of us had done a rather tough climbing club ride and we were all just a little beat, but it was a beautiful day and I, for one, felt ready to go.

Anyway, the ride started with a warmup on our local MUT. Then we hit the road. We started the ride with about 15 people, all but four of whom were men. We got in a double paceline and the speeds starting ramping up until we were cruising around 24 mph. I even did a pull or two at that speed. Bit by bit, the group started to thin out. Three of the other women fell off as did some of the guys who are generally part of the faster packs at club rides.

But there I stayed. Forty-five miles later, I finished with the lead group, including my ex and his friend. I'm sure it wasn't the fastest of rides for them, but it was fast enough to illustrate that I've come a long way since last summer. While impressing him is not why I ride or ride hard, it was still a red letter day for me.

And P.S.: His Bikejournal entry listed it as a "training" ride.

[Geonz]

I think knowing your own psychology is critical here. What kind of situations motivate you, and what kinds of situations discourage you?

SOme people are seriously motivated by "going out and getting dropped." They get determined and scrabble their way into the mix. For other folks, that gets 'em going back home and staying there. And, of course, sometimes you have *some* control over that. I try to figure out what I'm going to do to keep from getting discouraged if X or Y happens, ahead of time. However, when it comes to bicycling... I was used to having to work twice as hard to get half as good, and so getting pretty good just working as hard as everybody else had me ecstatic and still surprises me (honest, *that's* why we were going so much faster than the advertised speed Monday... I couldn't believe I was going that fast... ) But for heaven's sake... it's just bicycle riding, not the Great Judgemetn Day )

[indysteel]

I think knowing your own psychology is critical here. What kind of situations motivate you, and what kinds of situations discourage you?

SOme people are seriously motivated by "going out and getting dropped." They get determined and scrabble their way into the mix. For other folks, that gets 'em going back home and staying there.

Good points. I got very discouraged last year when one of the women I had ridden successfully with most of the fall suddenly had me eating her dust after she got a new bike in December. Normally, I don't think the bike makes THAT big of difference, but in her case, she went from a really heavy, ill-fitting bike to a full carbon LeMond. I had a few really bad rides where getting left behind or struggling to keep up sent me home in tears. It had never felt the least bit competitive with her, but I was afraid that I'd lost my riding buddy. It sucked.

But what was first kind of discouraging, ultimately proved to be a big motivator. We don't ride as much together anymore because she works a lot of weekends and my guess is that she's still faster than me on any given day, but I'm more at peace with it because I'm pushed my own limits--and that's really what matters more. I can climb better than she can, too.

[RoadRaven]

But there I stayed. Forty-five miles later, I finished with the lead group, including my ex and his friend. I'm sure it wasn't the fastest ride of rides for them, but it was fast enough to illustrate that I've come a long way since last summer. While impressing him is not why I ride or ride hard, it was still a red letter day for me.
And P.S.: His Bikejournal entry listed it as a "training" ride.

This is such an awesome account Indy - excellent "real-life" example, and such a clear account of how pushing yourself consistently gives VERY satisfactory results!

[indysteel]

This is such an awesome account Indy - excellent "real-life" example, and such a clear account of how pushing yourself consistently gives VERY satisfactory results!

Thanks. I always get a big thinking about that ride!

[Whip]

Great topic. Just want to jump on the "got to put in the work" theme.

While it is true that we can get a bit faster just by riding and keeping at it - it is truly amazing what just a little concentrated effort can do for your speed.

The trick to getting faster obviously is being able to ride harder for longer and one of the best ways to learn that is by doing one or two interval sessions a week. The interval session just below, at and above your LT will help you get more comfortable going harder and help you recover faster - which (at least to me) is one of the keys to being able to survive the constant surges and attacks in a fast group ride. I know everyone is training with Power Meters these days, but I can't afford one so I still use Heart Rate for my intervals. NOTHING helped me get faster ... uh, faster ... then intervals - including the hill repeats RoadRaven talked about ... AND...

Riding with people who are faster than me - especially if you can organize rides with people who are faster, but are committed to riding with you - and basically stopping every so often so you can catch up - not easy to find, but if you can do it, I recommend it because that way you don't just get dropped once, you get dropped and have to chase like twenty or more times. The trick is to keep chasing - don't give up. It took me a long time to listen to my husband who sounded like a broken record "ride with faster people, ride with faster people" but doing exactly that brought me from a 11-13 average to being able to do 21-24 in race and 15-19 on my own. It was really hard for me to get there, but it was so worth it.

Of course, if you do this kind of training, recovery is even more important - one or two monster efforts a week and then ride slow. A lot of coaches say that one of the biggest mistakes cyclists make is not going hard enough on hard days and not going easy enough on easy days.

[Starfish]

The trick is to keep chasing - don't give up. It took me a long time to listen to my husband who sounded like a broken record "ride with faster people, ride with faster people" but doing exactly that brought me from a 11-13 average to being able to do 21-24 in race and 15-19 on my own. It was really hard for me to get there, but it was so worth it.

Of course, if you do this kind of training, recovery is even more important - one or two monster efforts a week and then ride slow. A lot of coaches say that one of the biggest mistakes cyclists make is not going hard enough on hard days and not going easy enough on easy days.

Wow, what impressive improvement. I hover around the 13 mph average, so this gives me a lot of hope.

A question: Is this kind of speed improvement compatible with training for longer distances with weekly loooong rides, or to see this kind of improvement, would I need to do it when I'm really not trying to increase my long rides much (to get in the recovery)?

[Whip]

Hi,

Okay, so I am not a trainer, and maybe some people with more long-distance experience could better answer this - BUT for what it is worth, I do think they are very compatible - maybe even both necessary together - because I imagine that training long and training hard complement each other. Here's a sample training week DURING TRAINING SEASON from my coach:

Monday-Recover (30minutes-1hour)
Tuesday-Invervals (1-1.5hours)
Wednesday-Intervals or Aerobic (1-1.5hours)
Thursday-Aerobic (2hours) or Intervals 1-1.5hours)
Friday-Recover (30minutes-1hour)
Saturday-RACE or Long Hard Ride (2-6hours)
Sunday-RACE or Long Aerobic Ride (2-6hours)

So basically, this plan tells me that I am both building base and distance while training for strength and speed.

In the winter - almost all rides are aerobic - and longer.

I have been out ridden by women who do not ride fast but are just so darn fit can keep going and going. I poop out in long rides, but when I first started riding, working on speed helped my comfort level and speed in centuries. My first century took 8.5 hours (flat) then I was able to do a century in 5 hours and 20 minutes (flat, too) - and that was while I was training for speed.

Again, I don't want to make a recommendation, but if I were just starting out, I might do one interval day during the week, one fast group ride on the weekend (even if it's longer) and then ride long on Sunday, rest Monday and Friday, and do medium aerobic rides Wednesday and Thursday. If you are new to intervals and such, it's good to give your body a chance to adjust and to avoid overtraining - even the one session a week will help.

[7rider]

Riding with people who are faster than me - especially if you can organize rides with people who are faster, but are committed to riding with you - and basically stopping every so often so you can catch up - not easy to find, but if you can do it, I recommend it because that way you don't just get dropped once, you get dropped and have to chase like twenty or more times. The trick is to keep chasing - don't give up. It took me a long time to listen to my husband who sounded like a broken record "ride with faster people, ride with faster people" but doing exactly that brought me from a 11-13 average to being able to do 21-24 in race and 15-19 on my own. It was really hard for me to get there, but it was so worth it.

I'm going to be doing this very thing this Saturday...riding with the "a/b" riders on an organized ride where I WILL be dropped, and will have to give chase over and over again. My normal "C" group rides are around 17 mph. This Saturday ride will be over a longer (hillier) course at around 19. There are 2 or 3 re-group points, and they claim to be kind to the newbies. I figure, "Whatever doesn't kill me, only makes me stronger!"

[indysteel]

Whip and others, can any of you recommend a basic "intervals" routine? I have yet to train in that way but I keep thinking that I should. The group training rides I do on Tuesdays and Thursdays have been good for me as far as increasing speed and teaching paceline skills, but I'm not always in the mood for them. I'd like to switch one of the days out and do intervals instead, but the more something feels like "exercise" to me, the more unlikely that I'll do it or do it for long, so I have to keep it fun and kind of simple.....

Thanks.

K-