Landis Hearing

[equus123]

One last thought that I hope isn't true, could it be that in the high-ranking womens cycling community that there is less scrutiny than what is with the men? ie maybe it does happen but it isn't as much of a witch hunt?

yeah...you hope they don't care as much because its "women's" sports and the "who cares about that" kind of attitude.

[teigyr]

I personally love womens sports because I think more people do it for the love of the sport instead of the money. Maybe that is where the corruption is in mens sports?

[missymaya]

There is a woman track cyclist that was caught doping, but I can't remember her name for the life of me.

[snapdragen]

Do you ever really hear that much about female dopers in the sport?

I do, but I don't remember her name. I'll have to see if I can find it.

[smilingcat]

I've been trying to stay away from this boo ha ha with Floyd, doping, LeMond, the phone call etc. cause the whole thing really stinks. And I mean everything and everyone.

Someone pointed out that USADA (whatever the the acronym) gets part of its funding from the govt. so there is a temptation to hang someone dry to say "see-- see, we need money for enforcement..." Then what's LeMond doing in the pic? What does he have to contribute to this sordid/sorry affair. He's not part of the French lab, he's not part of Landis camp nor associated closely with big teams...

I wish this whole thing was just a bad nightmare and I wish we all get back to our riding for the love of sport.
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now boys vs womens cycling... Like eden said on another thread why spend hundreds of $$$ on things like EPO so you can pick up a preems worth $10.00 at a crit. Just doesn't really makes any sense to me... But on the mens circuit winning is big $$$ where it pays.

The other thing I've noticed too is that, well atleast for me, winning isn't everything and winning by cheaing is just so defeating emotionally. Such a win seems so hollow. But to a lot of men, winning is at any cost. And many of them just don't seem to care if it means to cheat a little or cheat a lot.

Again I just wish everyone on this monkey business stop pounding their chest and put away their over inflated egos and get to the business of reality. Tell the truth, admit that you've made mistakes in handling of the samples and truth may never be known about Mr. Landis use of drugs and be done with it. And for Mr. Landis to come clean with some explanation of some odd comments made about Mr. Le Monde

The whole thing is such a circus now, I'll abstain from making any judgement.

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Please don't get me wrong when I mention about hollow win, that I have had experience of winning with drugs. For the record, I hate drugs even painkillers. I hate the out of control feel of many of these drugs.

smilingcat

[RoadRaven]

I almost wish this thread could be split - the Landis thread, and the Women's pro-cycling thread.

Both are great convos!

So here first... women's cycling and my 2cents

Re women's cycling not being so obvious in the public eye - we are fighting (in the Western world at least) a loooong social history of how women are perceived. And that takes time to change. And even longer, apparently, for media and advertisers to think they have to 'get with the programme' too.

Women's sports rarely set "world fastest times", they tend to set women's bests. No women will ever match O'Bree's 1 hour record - probably not even with the use of drugs. No women will ever ride in a team with men like Lance and Floyd. Our physiology is just too different.

And this is the crux of the issue, I believe.

Media believe they should portray the best, and til they are willing to take a chance and realise that there is a big following of men and women for womens sports, we wont see it "out therre". And to make the following bigger, it needs to be supported by media. Catch 22.

[RoadRaven]

Post Deux

Landis...
I believe in him
I believe that the testosterone accusations are bunk - why on earth would you take a useless drug (well, a one off hit of testosterone is pointless) when you know you will be tested if you get placed???
Crazy

I'm with you, as so many other, Smiling Cat
I reserve judgement and continue to believe in our GEM

[PinkBike]

re:women and biking and doping,

Diane Modahl is one woman athlete who tested positive for doping and was later cleared
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/2559981.stm

re: bjarne riis

i've admired bjarne riis since seeing "overcoming," which is a great dvd. now he says he doped to win the tour. eric zabel and rolf adag admitted. telekom's Bert Dietz, Christian Henn and Udo Boelts admitted. jan ullrich was on the same telekom/t-mobile team and now they're talking about cutting him some slack due to the team dynamics at play.

i think maybe the UCI and the pro tour should announce an amnesty day - any rider who ever doped could come clean on that one day with no repercussions. the only censure would be for the team's directors and doctors if they were aware of any doping practices. all old samples and test results would be thrown away. no wins would be voided. we could start with a clean slate.

unless this is done we're not going to get a complete or honest picture of how rampant this practice is or was, and i think until recently it was very common.

i'm sure there are a bazillion holes in this suggestion but i'd like some closure followed by some new starts.

[teigyr]

I hope Floyd is innocent; he seems sincere and since he fought to make his hearing open for people to see, it seems like there is nothing to hide.

I think there is so much we'll never know and sometimes the elite cycling circuit seems not very desirable.

[ridethewind]

There is a woman track cyclist that was caught doping, but I can't remember her name for the life of me.

You may be thinking of Tammy Thomas.

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/11333.0.html

[missymaya]

Thanks ridethewind, that's exactly who I was thinking of.

[Trek420]

I almost wish this thread could be split - the Landis thread, and the Women's pro-cycling thread.

Both are great convos!

So here first... women's cycling and my 2cents

Re women's cycling not being so obvious in the public eye - we are fighting (in the Western world at least) a loooong social history of how women are perceived. And that takes time to change. And even longer, apparently, for media and advertisers to think they have to 'get with the programme' too.

Women's sports rarely set "world fastest times", they tend to set women's bests. No women will ever match O'Bree's 1 hour record - probably not even with the use of drugs. No women will ever ride in a team with men like Lance and Floyd. Our physiology is just too different.

And this is the crux of the issue, I believe.

Media believe they should portray the best, and til they are willing to take a chance and realise that there is a big following of men and women for womens sports, we wont see it "out therre". And to make the following bigger, it needs to be supported by media. Catch 22.

Or start a new thread on womens sports.

We don't get the money, coverage, sponsorship, salary .... but if you take the biggest pro sports fan, men or women that you can think of to a womens pro game and here it doesn't matter if it's WNBA, pro softball, soccer, American football or of course cycling and you'll hear this:

"wow, they play the game the way it's supposed to be played".

I'm not a fan of most sports and I truly suck at any team sport. But womens basketball for example does not have the speed, power, dunks of the mens game but I'm told by those who enjoy the game that the strategy is better.

[Fredwina]

well, it so happens that one of the more prestigious women's race (the Tour De l'Aude) is happening right now:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showt...693#post205693

[KnottedYet]

"wow, they play the game the way it's supposed to be played".

That's exactly how I feel when I watch women's college basketball.

Now I want to see some women's cycling!

[traveller_62]

I don't know if Landis cheated or not but it is clear that cycling has a long history of the illegal use of performance enhancing drugs. If anything good comes out of the Landis case I hope that it is that professional sport cycling cleans up its act and also that the methods for drug testing become much more rigorous then they are now.

As a scientist I'm appalled at the violations of good laboratory practice that are clearly happening at some of these labs. Someone in this thread mentioned the OJ case and there are some similarities in that the folks that handled the blood/DNA evidence in that case so badly mishandled the samples that reasonable doubt was guaranteed.

To get a valid result from a drug test the sample must be handled correctly, the instrumentation must be well-maintained and calibrated, and the analysis must be performed by an experienced technician. In Floyd's case there were breaks in the chain of custody of the sample, the sample itself failed to pass WADA's own criteria for additional (more sensitive) testing, there was confusion in the labeling of the sample (casting doubt on which rider the sample came from), and the instrumentation used to do the measurements was not properly calibrated.

As far as I'm concerned the methodology for drug testing in cycling needs to be seriously scrutinized and subjected to the same scientific rigor and review that my research data are. Until this is the case we will continue to have these media-driven circus trials that focus on the significance of the color of the defendant's neck tie.

As for Floyd's character...well, I guess if someone accused me of something I didn't do and I was subject to incredible pressure by the media, etc. I'm not sure I would be able to hold it together and take the high road all of the time either.

As for women's cycling...I think the power of the web might be the answer to broadcasting more women's events independent of network or cable TV. The web coverage of the Tour of Californnia was awesome and it would be too cool to use that same infrastructure and technology to get women's cycling on the map!

- traveller