from this point, it might get ugly

[Blueberry]

I do think you can dispute the charge even after it's shown up on your bill, and been paid, but I think there's a relatively short window to do so (60 or 90 days). I'd call the card company ASAP and at least give them a heads up that there's a problem and you're trying to work through it with the guy.

Good luck - it sucks to wait so long for something and then not have it be right. We went through the same with our bike fridays - the difference is that the company was horrified, and has since made it right!

*hugs*

Carrie Anne

[mimitabby]

Hey guys, just got back from my 5 mile walk with my lawyer friend. Your advice is better than hers. most of her advice had to do with what happens after all communication breaks down;
her main good point was be sure you have the bike when you are negotiating. and she talked about small claims court.

I just got off the phone with Robinson Wheel, didn't get to talk to Chris, spoke to a young sounding fellow named Tim instead. He was mystified on how Smartcycle even had an unpainted Kountach model bike, that they come from Italy already painted, that they get sent to California ...
anyway, he expressed skepticism that the bike should have brazons on it even. and like Eden, he recommended the blade fenders. . .
argh.
Tomorrow I go to Elliott Bay Bike with the frame and will present my case to them. my husband wants me to send the bike back and get a Davidson instead.
Xeney, unless they talk me into keeping the bike tomorrow; i am going to do exactly what you are suggesting. Write a letter, email it and mail it registered mail, enumerating all his broken promises and asking for my money back. and arranging to return the bike.
The one thing i am sure about is that he will not follow through so I do not want to send the bike back to him "to make it right" and have him doing his passive aggressive thing on me for months and months, while the bike hangs in the back of his shop somewhere. I will not subject myself to that bs again.

[Triskeliongirl]

LIzbids;
The visa payment charge was on my February bill. It's already paid for.

I have already printed it all out (oh, i LOVE gmail)

and What you are suggesting is just about what I was thinking... Registered
is a good idea.

I am absolutely sure you can protest a credit card charge after paying your bill. Credit card companies are great at this sort of thing, so if I were you I would phone the credti card company before I did anything else for their advice. Be simple with them, explain the item did not have the promosed specificiations and you want their help in returning it for a full refund. I would not let him make it right, because it can't be made right. You told me the fork does not have clearance for fenders. Even with a braze on, does the bridge have room for a tire to clear with fenders mounted? My impression is that this is a racing frame, and it is much harder to modify a racing frame to accept fenders, than to build the frame that way in the first place. I know this cuz I did buy a sport bike that I converted to a lite tourer, and that was when I realized these differences. If you look at a frame designed for wide tires and fenders, you'll see the bridge is higher, and the distance between the seat stays in longer. Likewise, the fork crown is higher and distance between the fork blades are also longer. Not all bikes can be retrofit and its seems like, as beautiful as this frame is, its just not a good candidate. You are lucky. You have in writing his promise that it would be fit with fender braze ons. Its not. You paid with your credit card, so your credit card company should be able to advocate for you to get a refund. Good luck, but PLEASE PLEASE return this bike and do not continue to deal with this DISHONEST man. I would also be careful about bringing it to this other shop. You don't want it damaged carting it around. You also can't say the fit is better than the bianchi without knowing the seat tube angle. I have told you this over and over and you never get it, but reach is dicated by BOTH the seat tube angle AND the top tube length. Before you decide to keep this bike you need to know EXACTLY how the reach will compare to your bianchi so you aren't disappointed again when it is built up. I would return it because even if they can put those fenders designed for racing bikes, they do not work as well as real fenders (see sheldon brown's discussion of this). You are paying a lot of money for this, and I think you will really regret it later if it doesn't have full fenders. Also, don't you want to use tires wider than 25c? Despit its aesthetic appeal, I really think this bike was a mistake for you, so use their screw up to get you out of this. I agree with your husband. If you go with a local builder, there is a real person responsible for your satisfaction. This screwed up cuz Smart Cycles sells bikes on the internet. THey don't care about repeat business, they don't care about their local community of cyclists, you are nothing to them. Whether its Davidson or that PT you went to, go to someone you can visit with, who can observe you on your veloce and see what you like and don't,who'll ask you want you want your bike to DO.

[KnottedYet]

Was Chris at lunch or something?

Tim looks older than Chris (late 40's early 50's) from what I remember, but he does have a young voice.

Remember, if you get a Mondonico from Chris like Trek did, it will be custom made for you with all your specifications (room for fenders, etc like Trisk says); rather than a modified existing frame like Mr. DumpsterDiver is trying to shove off on you.

It will take longer, but might be worth it.

[Triskeliongirl]

Was Chris at lunch or something?

Tim looks older than Chris (late 40's early 50's) from what I remember, but he does have a young voice.

Remember, if you get a Mondonico from Chris like Trek did, it will be custom made for you with all your specifications (room for fenders, etc like Trisk says); rather than a modified existing frame like Mr. DumpsterDiver is trying to shove off on you.

It will take longer, but might be worth it.

I couldn't agree more. Mimi, you have a perfectly acceptable bike you can ride right now, your veloce. TO create a dream bike takes time. Once you broker the return of this bike, you need to slow down, take a deep breath, first find a local builder you feel understands both your FIT and FUNCTION needs, and then BE PATIENT while a bike is made that meets those. Everyone I know that has done this has no regrets. Remember, you will ride a bike like this for 20 years, so even if it takes several months to start over, that is nothing compared to the years of pleasure it will give you. I noticed another thing in your email, you referred to this bike as a custom mondonico but its not a custom bike for you, whether its a custom bike for someone else's specs, or stock bike, it won't compare with a bike made for your body and your riding needs.

[mimitabby]

Was Chris at lunch or something?

Tim looks older than Chris (late 40's early 50's) from what I remember, but he does have a young voice.

It will take longer, but might be worth it.

ha, no matter what i do now it's going to take longer!

Chris was with another customer, and Tim was pleasant and respectful. Knowing his age gives him even more credibility, thanks Knot. (see that, I'm prejudiced against young men!)

Trisk, I am sure you are right, the bike needs to go back, we've re-wrapped it
so I'm not worried about hurting it by taking it to the bike shop it's in the box.

Will call the credit union on monday and see what my options are.

I know that the racing fenders aren't like real fenders, that's part of why I was still shopping for a bike. And I was going by my Physical THerapist's recommendations, that's how I arrived at that bike.

[Triskeliongirl]

I was going by my Physical THerapist's recommendations, that's how I arrived at that bike.

Did you PT have the full specs on the frame geometry before you ordered, that means the seat tube angle as well as top tube length. If he just told you that you need a bike with a certain size top tube, he may have been assuming a standard seat tube angle like 73 (this is what a fit kit does) but then you need to add a cm to the TT legnth for each degree increase in seat tube angle. Mondonicos have *VERY STEEP* seat tubes, so that I why I am worried this may still not even fit you. PLEASE try to understand this before you order you next frame. I think it is explained well here: http://www.cervelo.com/viewkb.aspx?id=00692

[KnottedYet]

Would you consider calling Chris (and talking to Chris or asking Tim to have Chris call you back when he's available) and explaining what you need in a bike, and asking if they can help you get a truly CUSTOM Mondonico with the clearance and braze-ons you want?

Tim was probably right, that you can't modify the existing frame for what you need. Mr. DumpsterDiver was probably pulling a fast one telling you he could do it for you.

Now that you are getting free of the "wrong" frame, maybe ask Chris if Mondonico can create a frame, the "right" frame, just for you?

Not modify and paint an existing pre-made frame, but make an entirely new one to meet YOUR measurements and YOUR requirements?

(Chris and Mondonico did it for Trek, I bet they could do it for you)

[Triskeliongirl]

Would you consider calling Chris (and talking to Chris or asking Tim to have Chris call you back when he's available) and explaining what you need in a bike, and asking if they can help you get a truly CUSTOM Mondonico with the clearance and braze-ons you want?

Tim was probably right, that you can't modify the existing frame for what you need. Mr. DumpsterDiver was probably pulling a fast one telling you he could do it for you.

Now that you are getting free of the "wrong" frame, maybe ask Chris if Mondonico can create a frame, the "right" frame, just for you?

Not modify and paint an existing pre-made frame, but make an entirely new one to meet YOUR measurements and YOUR requirements?

(Chris and Mondonico did it for Trek, I bet they could do it for you)

I couldn't agree more. Again, I am worried cuz Mimi refers to going to this shop to see if they can talk her into keeping it. Mimi, to decide that you need to ask yourself why you thought you were buying this frame, if you think it meets your needs. I don't but its not what I think, its what do YOU think. If this frame won't meet your needs, then you must return it. Once the stress is behind you, by all means visit with Chris, your PT, Davidson, etc. Listen to recommendations. The fact that trek is happy with Chris is important, the fact that your husband is happy with Davidson is important too. Because many so-called professionals are lousy at customer service and fitting petite women.

[KnottedYet]

The fact that trek is happy with Chris is important, the fact that your husband is happy with Davidson is important too. Because many so-called professionals are lousy at customer service and fitting petite women.

Chris has a loyal following in the SF Bay area among women for a reason. He is NOT like Mr. DumpsterDiver. He's a bike geek, a real nice HUGE nerd who loves bikes. He treats women like cyclists, not like easy-marks for poor service.

He got Trek onto the bike of her dreams, and she's TINY. He fussed and fiddled with that bike until it fit her so perfectly that she can do the AIDS rides multiple times!

If Mondonico cannot make a brand new frame to meet your needs, Chris will tell you so. He won't "bend the truth" just to make a sale like Mr. Dumpster.

[wannaduacentury]

he's the owner
here's his signature line. oh yeah. and he never sent me a bill of sale (i paid with visa, but no receipt!)

Alex Stanek
Owner - Manager - Famous Bike Fitter - Mechanic - Gopher - Custodian - Wheel Builder
Training Wheel Installer - Accountant - Marketing Director - Dumpster Cleaner!
Smart Cycles, Inc.
303 Strawberry Hill Ave
Norwalk, CT 06851
203-831-9144
203-831-9129 Fax

Can you look at your card statement on when the sale went thru- then you can contact the cc company and complain about the purchase to them-incl the no receipt thingy. I hate you're going through all of this. He better start making that receipt. and get the bike you want too.

[mimitabby]

Can you look at your card statement on when the sale went thru- then you can contact the cc company and complain about the purchase to them-incl the no receipt thingy. I hate you're going through all of this. He better start making that receipt. and get the bike you want too.

Oh yes, i have the statement right here, that is not a problem.
At least I have a nice bike I can ride, my Bianchi, while I wait.

[Bad JuJu]

Well, the whole ordeal just sucks, Mimi. I have nothing to add to all the sage advice already provided, but just wanted to add my bit of encouragement for when you return the bike. It certainly will be uncomfortable, but that'll be temporary, and once it's behind you, it sounds like you now have a line on a responsible LBS that will help you get what you really need and want in a bike.
Good luck, and stand your ground!

[xeney]

Smart Cycles in Norwalk, CT? Ha. I just looked at their website ... he's got a steel '06 Bianchi Veloce on "close-out." It appears to be stock; the components listed are exactly what Bianchi's website has listed for that bike for '06. But Bianchi has the list price at $1,699. His bargain price: "Reg: $2299.99, Closeout: $1899.99!"

I am thinking this is not a guy to do business with.

[KayTee]

I have nothing helpful to add either, Mimi, except to beam you more support for when you go to return it. Whew, I feel your pain. This really bites.