from this point, it might get ugly

**mimitabby** · 03-02-2007, 07:42 PM

Hi guys, I got my beautiful new frame from the UPS man tonight. At precisely 6:01 pm.

The frame is beautiful, but there are problems. The promised brazeons are not brazed on.

I just printed out 11 pages of emails back and forth between me and the guy at Smart Cycle. In his very first email to me he said he could put brazeons on the frame. Then later, i ask him again for brazeons, and he acted like he was going to make sure of it.

There are some other minor problems but they are no big deal (like he said that he was painting the crown of the fork and a promised decal is not there)
The brazeons are a big deal.
And of course, I am totally intimidated because he got nasty with me when
after 2 weeks of it being "in transit" I got discouraged and then the bike miraculously appeared.

Suggestions, girls?

Thanks for listening if nothing else.

**Dianyla** · 03-02-2007, 07:44 PM

Wow. Just, wow.

Forgive me, I haven't been following it so closely, but is this guy the highest person in his company? Is there anyone above him you can escalate this to?

**mimitabby** · 03-02-2007, 07:46 PM

he's the owner
here's his signature line. oh yeah. and he never sent me a bill of sale (i paid with visa, but no receipt!)

Alex Stanek
Owner - Manager - Famous Bike Fitter - Mechanic - Gopher - Custodian - Wheel Builder
Training Wheel Installer - Accountant - Marketing Director - Dumpster Cleaner!
Smart Cycles, Inc.
303 Strawberry Hill Ave
Norwalk, CT 06851
203-831-9144
203-831-9129 Fax

**Wahine** · 03-02-2007, 08:09 PM

Ooooooooooo. Not good.

I don't envy you at all. I have trouble returning things under the best circumstances. I don't think I could handle something like this.

Good luck Mimi.

**Xrayted** · 03-02-2007, 08:25 PM

I know you've been going through all kinds of stuff with this guy from the beginning. What an azz.

Mimi, I wonder what he thinks is going to happen when you see that frame and it's not what you asked for? No braze-ons at all or what? And if you send it back to get fixed, how long is it gonna take this time? It'll have to get repainted and everything. I say let a couple of the TE ladies up there in the NE states go in there and kick his shins in for ya.

I'm so sorry that you are still going to have to deal with this d*ckhead some more. Good luck and keep us posted.

**LBTC** · 03-02-2007, 08:28 PM

Sending reconciling communicating satisfaction producing butterflies your way. Hey, they might help!

Good luck!
H&B
~T~

**Triskeliongirl** · 03-02-2007, 08:29 PM

I am soooo soooory this happened to you Mimi. I think you should definitely return the bike. I just sent you an email with more thoughts on this matter. Be strong, at least you have a bike to ride you enjoy, and just take your time getting this worked out. After the bike is returned, if I were you I would return to the PT you liked so much, and let him design you the frame of your dreams, and install the parts you bought. A good frame builder will consider both fit and function, building it to take the range of tire sizes and fenders that you, the customer, want, as well as fitting you like a glove. So, cheer up, if you handle this correctly you'll still end up with your dream bike.

**roguedog** · 03-02-2007, 08:34 PM

Awww.. bumming mimi.

Hmm.. did he charge you extra for the brazeons? If not you can take it to.. the shop that did dh's bike to do it?

If so,.. well, that's stickier..or maybe not since he charged you more and didn't deliver. seems pretty straightforward??? No?

**Dianyla** · 03-02-2007, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by mimitabby

(i paid with visa, but no receipt!)

*emphasis mine* This is a very important leverage point - most credit card companies offer some protection to you as the buyer. They may be able to give you a complete refund and then they'll take it up with this guy.

Then you can then take your money and your frame business elsewhere.

**Triskeliongirl** · 03-02-2007, 08:45 PM

I think this problem is way bigger than a lack of braze ons. I wonder if the frame even has clearance for fenders. If not it could mean moving the bridge, and even adding braze ons means repainting (and there may still not be fender clearance under the fork). This man has had enough time to make it right, so I think the frame should be sent back. Moreover, I am now concerned if this frame will even fit Mimi. After all that she has been through I did a bit of sleuthing. I know he told her it would fit, but it bugged me right from the beginning when I asked her about the frame geometry that she said she didn't know. So, I looked up this info. Now, I may be wrong about the sizes, and her veloce may be diff. from the 2006 I found the stats on, but based on what I found out I am not sure this frame is even going to fit her. By that, I believe the fit on the Mondonico and Veloce will be very similar, but I thought she wanted the new bike to both take fenders AND have a shorter reach (and at one point take 650c tires which neither bike does).

These are the stats I found:

Mondonico geometries are from this site: http://www.bikyle.com/Mondonico.asp
Veloce's are from this site: http://www.bianchiusa.com/06_veloce.html

49 cm veloce has a sta of 76 and TT of 51.8.
48 cm mondomico futura leggero has a sta of 76.5 and TT of 51.5, but if you correct for the steeper STA, its like a TT of 52. So it will feel 0.2 cm longer.

Mimi, did you understand when you ordered this bike that it would fit just like the veloce? If you didn't the seller misled you. If I were you I would use the lack of braze ons to return it for a full refund. Then take your parts to that nice PT that fit you, and have him build you the bike of your dreams. Since you have emails documenting that it would have the braze ons, perhaps you can get the VISA company to phone him for you and agree to a FULL REFUND.

**Velobambina** · 03-03-2007, 12:44 AM

Mimi--I would send it back. It's a lovely frame but it isn't what you ordered. You paid for the braze ons? Will you really be able to enjoy this bike, knowing that it isn't exactly what you wanted? Will it remind you of the "Dumpster Cleaner?" I'm with the others---get your credit card company to help you with the refund and send it back. Maybe you can send a letter to his local better business bureau, reporting what happened.

**Bluetree** · 03-03-2007, 04:25 AM

Mimi, I agree with the others – get your refund. Credit card companies tend to favor customers over retailers, especially is you have the documentation. You should be overjoyed and satisfied with your new frame... you should not be looking at it with associations of anger, regret or resentment. You deserve better... {{{Mimi}}}

**7rider** · 03-03-2007, 04:39 AM

Bummer.
Perhaps "Smart Cycles" should change there name by adding "Not Too" to the front!

I would definitely talk to Visa about options. Then call Mr. Gopher/Dumpster Cleaner when you have some ammo (other than the big Nuke - a bike that doesn't meet your order).
Mom always told me "you catch more flys with honey than with vinegar" - but something tells me you're past the point of trying to sweet-talk this guy. Sounds like the only option is to send it back. Sux with these cross-country purchases.
Good luck and may better bikes (and better bike dealers) be ahead for you in the future!

**lizbids** · 03-03-2007, 05:04 AM

I don't know if it's b/c you're a woman (I hate to play the gender card, but man, it's used often!), but I find that retailers and sellers in general often give women less respect. And I can't tell how many ladies of color are out there on this forum, but people of color get it all the time too, man or woman.
They don't fulfill needs that you want, and then after giving you something you don't want, they try to talk you out of your original idea. It all depends on the person. One bike shop I went to: the guy was great, and I bought some shoes. He was friendlly and knowledgeable. The LBS is great too (well the owner es.). But then I found myself in one of the biggest stores in NYC for sports ,and the seller was a total tool. Was barely concerned with helping me and not addressing my issues. Next store: even worse! Had a seller ARGUE with me when I asked for MTB pedals for a tour rather than road. Very obnoxious and aloof.

You know though? I used to be the type to scream and yell, but now I just quietly demand and hold my ground. Once they realize you're not going away, that you WILL be that thorn in their side before they change their tune, they usually acquiesce. STAND YOUR GROUND. To me, success is reserved for those who are persistent.

**mimitabby** · 03-03-2007, 05:05 AM

Thank you all for your wisdom. Thanks for reminding me of my Visa protection.
My visa account is actually with my credit union, so this should help too (they're very accessible)

To calm Trisk's concerns, The geometry of this bike is NOT what she found on line, it has woman's specific geometry, the top tube is 50.5 cm and the bianchi is 51.5, i measured it first thing (right after i searched for the brazeons!!)
after she asked me about the dimensions, i asked this guy what they were
and he blew me off.

But this morning I am walking with a lawyer friend. hehehehe and I will talk to her about this. I think you guys are right, I should send it back despite the fact that it's beautiful and I finally have a custom italian bike and it's even the color i wanted.

Velo, I have NO IDEA what I paid for (other than the frame and fork) because
he never sent me a bill or receipt.
I know what we TALKED about. Midway through negotiation he called me and he listed the things I wanted (which unfortunately I didn't record!!!)
and I didn't get all of those things either. so go figure.

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