Should Men be allowed in a Women's Forum?

[bcipam]

I have no problem with men being on this forum as long as their behavior is fine--which is the way I feel about ALL participants.

+100

I had a male friend some time ago post on this forum. He ID'd himself as male and had something to add to the thread he felt was important - he also knew most of the posters.

This is a women's forum and basically it is. If I thought men came here to "play" and pick up ladies then I would say that person should go. I just haven't seen that behavior. Everyone has been polite, respectful and cordial.

Edited to add: I just read the nutrition thread... Mr Silver I would rather PM you (but couldn't) but a message from me... time to time I get myself in quite a pickle with some of the ladies on this board - I can be outspoken and I'm Christian and Conservative, so I can rub folks raw at times. I have learned when engaged so... to just back off and be silent. Men like to debate, women not so much. Just a lesson learned for the future where ever you turn up.

[Pedal Wench]

I also participate on the women's board on bikeforums.net. They debate quarterly (it seems) on whether or not to allow men in. It's a private forum - women are invited in, once it's been established on the public forums that they are, indeed a woman, although it would probably be easy for someone to fake entry. Our forum here is often mentioned, in that this one is open to anyone who wants to drop in. Trying to police it would require more work than Susan O., or Jeff, would probably want to take on. I have a feeling that most men gradually lose interest in our issues. This IS a public forum, and we have to deal with that fact.

[Bad JuJu]

Though it seems that a set policy on this issue would make some of us feel better, I have to agree with Pedal Wench that enforcing such a policy would be next to impossible. After all, we don't really know that everyone who posts here as a woman really is a woman. And what about the occasional transgendered person who might take an interest in the forum?

Mainly, I feel that, with maybe a few exceptions, this is a self-policing forum in that people who aren't really interested in women's cycling issues will eventually get bored and move on. So I think any policy on who can post here neither is needed or would be very effective in the long run.

Just my 2 cents.

[SouthernBelle]

Basically, I have no problem with Mr. Silver being here. He's here by invitation and has kept his testerone in check. But overall, I prefer that this forum stay mostly women.

I think there are reasonable exceptions. For example, if George Hincapie, whose company manufactures cycling clothing, came here with women's clothing questions and decided to stay because he enjoyed the cycling discussions, I'm OK with that.

But if a guy or guys, cyclist or not, comes here with no reasonable connections to the board, I think we would eventually lose what differentiates this board from other cycling boards. There are subjects discussed freely here that would disappear.

[jeannierides]

Well, I have to add my .02 as well. We all appreciated the updates on Silver, and we all did welcome Mr. Silver... to a point... we DO discuss things on this "Women's Forum" that we'd rather not have a male interject... whether it's tampons, whether to wear thongs or how much weight we've gained... sometimes having a man around to put in his two cents... well, sometimes isn't ok. You gals are right that he has been mostly polite and we've encouraged him... and maybe we've misled him into thinking he could be *the* man on the TE board?? I dunno. I somewhat agree with Queen, and mostly agree with Trek on the hijacked thread....
I have very mixed feelings...

[Kitsune06]

I've been privy to very differing views on this subject, and while I think all are very well-thought out and can see the reasoning, I must post with my input.

I am uncomfortable with gentlemen on this forum in general. This is a women's space, the "Women's Cycling Discussion Forums" as it were. The way I'm seeing past opinions etc as it were is mentally doing a complete role reversal. If I were a woman on "Team Testosterone- the Men's Cycling Discussion Forum" I can't imagine I'd have much to say, but were I married, I'd possibly be into looking up possible answers for my husband, given possible issues he had- though if he were a member as well, I don't know that I could help much.
I don't know if I could contribute very successfully either.

I don't want this to become a precident. In the past, the loving hubbies of most TE members will occasionally, rarely post, and they're great guys. But they respect the formerly unspoken boundaries we have here. They've rarely tarried long.

All that said,

I cannot knowingly be part of any sort of discrimination. To single out, (sorry) Mr. Silver has been very polite. He's been respectful, and open. Such can *not* be said for many of our previous male visitors. Perhaps this is why he's been so well accepted.

So to sum it up, while I don't want this to be a lasting thing, and wish men would in general respect what had previously been unspoken, I cannot fairly say that he 'should leave'. He will in his due time... and until that happens, he's a good guy and we should treat him as such, however we are unnerved by his presence and what it may mean for the future of TE.

[Brandi]

I do not have a problem with mr Silver! And if he becomes a problem then i am sure it will be taken care of (Vito will pay him a visit ). But I don't think to much of it until he becomes rude. But hey we can be just as rude too. Just my opinion.

[HipGnosis6]

Hoo boy... this is bound to get me in trouble, but I just can't keep my mouth shut.

So... the opposing side, while nobody's being horrible and demanding a ban on all men, seems to be saying "we're uncomfortable with a man in our 'locker room'. We deserve our own space."

Just the other day, I was witness to a really shameful scene. I was touring a gym that I was considering joining, and while I was there there was a sudden and very large stir. One of the members had found out that one of the trainers there was *gasp* a lesbian, and the idea that this woman might see her naked in the locker rooms made her uncomfortable. She had never been uncomfortable before, but once she found out that someone there was different from her, she had anxiety and fear.

I'm not sure how your fear and discomfort of men, even when they're showing themselves to be behaving appropriately, is any different. Inappropriate behavior on the forums is just that - inappropriate, no matter who it's coming from, and needs to be dealt with on an issue-by-issue basis and not on one that's discriminatory and originates in fear. Where I don't feel discomfited by Mr. Silver's presence here, I have to tip my hat to Kitsune for being the first to say that banning him simply because he's a man is in fact SEXIST and a form of discrimination.

Part of what I think makes TE different is that we don't discriminate. We all work to make everyone feel welcome, whether they're hardcore roadies or older ladies on their cruisers but right now we're talking about who's NOT welcome! I'm a little shocked by it; we are a fairly diverse group and I've never witnessed anything worse than a couple of snotty comments.

We don't have serious problems with harassment or with men invading our space; we don't hang a sign on our door that says "NO BOYZ", and therefore it's no fun to come bug us. Those few that do show up are met with little interest at best. The day we lay down the law is the day we ask for people to protest our negative and exclusionary behavior.

[Veronica]

Since this a public forum, you never know who could be reading. There could be lots of men out there who are just having a grand ole time over the diva cup or Brazilian waxes. AND never say that they are here.

Lots of things posted by WOMEN here make me uncomfortable. It doesn't keep me from posting or reading. It doesn't mean the topics shouldn't be posted. I am pleased with the Ignore Thread feature because I can now ignore those threads more easily. I don't want to ignore the posters, because in other threads I've valued their comments.

Heck, I could be a man for all some of you know.

V.

[snapdragen]

Very well said HipGnosis!

[Wahine]

Well, I have to agree with Hip. I don't think we can ban men, that's discrimination and this is a public forum. Nor would we be able to police the entry of men into the forum. It's not practical and if we tried and they wanted to be here they could just lurk and pretend to be female. I'd rather have them be open about it so that I can have a sense of who's on the thread. Not that it makes a difference to me, I'll say whatever the heck I want in front of a guy anyway. If it grosses them out and they leave so be it.

If someone behaves inappropriately they need to be removed, regardless of gender.

Besides, we sort of have a built in macho-man barrier - none of those types would be caught dead on a discussion group called Team Estrogen. With a name like this it's likely that only the nice guys in touch with their feminine side, like Mr. Silver, are likely to enter in.

I didn't say anything here that other's haven't. Just wanted to throw in my vote per say.

[Irulan]

Hoo boy... this is bound to get me in trouble, but I just can't keep my mouth shut.

So... the opposing side, while nobody's being horrible and demanding a ban on all men, seems to be saying "we're uncomfortable with a man in our 'locker room'. We deserve our own space."

Just the other day, I was witness to a really shameful scene. I was touring a gym that I was considering joining, and while I was there there was a sudden and very large stir. One of the members had found out that one of the trainers there was *gasp* a lesbian, and the idea that this woman might see her naked in the locker rooms made her uncomfortable. She had never been uncomfortable before, but once she found out that someone there was different from her, she had anxiety and fear.

I'm not sure how your fear and discomfort of men, even when they're showing themselves to be behaving appropriately, is any different. Inappropriate behavior on the forums is just that - inappropriate, no matter who it's coming from, and needs to be dealt with on an issue-by-issue basis and not on one that's discriminatory and originates in fear. Where I don't feel discomfited by Mr. Silver's presence here, I have to tip my hat to Kitsune for being the first to say that banning him simply because he's a man is in fact SEXIST and a form of discrimination.

Part of what I think makes TE different is that we don't discriminate. We all work to make everyone feel welcome, whether they're hardcore roadies or older ladies on their cruisers but right now we're talking about who's NOT welcome! I'm a little shocked by it; we are a fairly diverse group and I've never witnessed anything worse than a couple of snotty comments.

We don't have serious problems with harassment or with men invading our space; we don't hang a sign on our door that says "NO BOYZ", and therefore it's no fun to come bug us. Those few that do show up are met with little interest at best. The day we lay down the law is the day we ask for people to protest our negative and exclusionary behavior.

best response.

[jeannierides]

Hoo boy... this is bound to get me in trouble, but I just can't keep my mouth shut.

So... the opposing side, while nobody's being horrible and demanding a ban on all men, seems to be saying "we're uncomfortable with a man in our 'locker room'. We deserve our own space."

Just the other day, I was witness to a really shameful scene. I was touring a gym that I was considering joining, and while I was there there was a sudden and very large stir. One of the members had found out that one of the trainers there was *gasp* a lesbian, and the idea that this woman might see her naked in the locker rooms made her uncomfortable. She had never been uncomfortable before, but once she found out that someone there was different from her, she had anxiety and fear.

I'm not sure how your fear and discomfort of men, even when they're showing themselves to be behaving appropriately, is any different. Inappropriate behavior on the forums is just that - inappropriate, no matter who it's coming from, and needs to be dealt with on an issue-by-issue basis and not on one that's discriminatory and originates in fear. Where I don't feel discomfited by Mr. Silver's presence here, I have to tip my hat to Kitsune for being the first to say that banning him simply because he's a man is in fact SEXIST and a form of discrimination.

Part of what I think makes TE different is that we don't discriminate. We all work to make everyone feel welcome, whether they're hardcore roadies or older ladies on their cruisers but right now we're talking about who's NOT welcome! I'm a little shocked by it; we are a fairly diverse group and I've never witnessed anything worse than a couple of snotty comments.

We don't have serious problems with harassment or with men invading our space; we don't hang a sign on our door that says "NO BOYZ", and therefore it's no fun to come bug us. Those few that do show up are met with little interest at best. The day we lay down the law is the day we ask for people to protest our negative and exclusionary behavior.

<<<what she said.

I couldn't (didn't) say it better...

[spokewench]

I really have no problem with men on this forum if they are respectful to the obvious flavor of this forum. This is a welcoming, non-judgmental forum and that is the way it should stay. There are some forums out there that we all are aware of that are not friendly even to other males. The flavor of those forums is sarcastic, vicious and uncaring of others feelings. I do not want to see this happen to TE, but I do not believe we should bar males who want that same kind of feeling in a forum.

I compare this with my ladies rides. In my small town, there are very few group rides for men or ladies that are not hammerfests. It is a small town where the core group of racers/riders are a young crowd. We are a university town. I lead women's rides, but I have never barred men if they would like to come along. If they are good riders, I expect them to be respectful and help teach; if they are just looking for a ride where they will not be dropped and can learn, I see no reason why they can't join. I always laughingly say at the beginning of a ride to a new male rider that I don't know "if you leave your testosterone at home, you are welcome" They seem to get the idea and I have never had a problem.

[Melody]

I also participate on the women's board on bikeforums.net.

heh. I never knew there was a women's board on bikeforums.net. But then, I don't post there very often. (not that I've been here often lately either though )

I personally don't have a problem with guys on the forum. To me, it's all about people being polite and respectful to each other, no matter the gender. I just don't think most guys would have much to say on some of the subjects we talk about.

Mel