Serious Issue: Advice for Dealing with Alcoholics

[nancielle]

It's never easy dealing with addiction in the family. Working with addicts I get to witness the pain and frustration of loved ones trying to understand why someone will not "just stop" something that is detrimental to their health/wellbeing. Having alcoholics in my family brings it home all the more. Some things stood out from the posts:

Not all addicted individuals are "ok" with their plight. Some feel downright awful about it but feel helpless/hopeless or downright scared to change. But you're right, they have to want to make the changes necessary.

The suggestion of attending Al-Anon meetings is a good one. It can be helpful in dealing with the emotions of coping with alcoholic family members. You could force them into rehab but at what emotional/relationship cost to them and among the family? There is no guarantee that they wouldn't go back to their old drinking patterns once discharged.

Are their physicians aware of their drinking habits? At 80 their metabolisms are not going to handle alcohol consumption as it did in the past. Alcohol with remain in their systems longer. What types of medications are they on normally? Medication function is also impacted by alcohol use. A previous poster asked about celiac. Good question. Also, is either one diabetic? As has been pointed out in other posts, just stopping drinking for them (any alcoholic actually) can be dangerous. Seizures are a problem for alcoholics (actively drinking and detoxing which is why alcohol detox needs to be medically supervised.)

I'd also be curious as to how long the AL facility would be on board with "administering" alcohol. They may look at her recent fall & BAL as a liability for them (I know of someone who was asked to remove a loved one from an AL facility for similar reasons.)

Good luck with this.

[Trek420]

I guess the medical care is so good these days that they can last a long time, too.

My understanding from a friend who's been in recovery a long time is ultimately many alchoholics lives end from malnutrition. It's empty calories after all and the addict drinks, feels full, doesn't eat. On the street some die of starvation though to look at them that is not the case but internally, starving.

Silvers, I'm sorry this is happening, I know others here have said this more articulately than me: Alanon is an amazing fellowship of friends and family. Sometimes that's all you can do, change yourself and maybe the addict will follow.

Meanwhile I'd find the source at the facility. I'd hate to be him or her when you do.

[Mr. Bloom]

Wonderful Feedback. Thanks! Here are some answers and the rest of the story...

• Yes, Mom is celiac and this exacerabates the problem...
• The doctors are involved and agree that "a couple of drinks a day" is manageable
• the 'source' is not an employee of the facility, and someone currently unknown to us (although I got a couple of suspects out of bed at 3AM this morning)

While understanding that no one was endorsing drinking, I understand that to restrict their access is harsh and possibly impossible. The issue:

• their care is currently costing about $8,000/mo. If they're kicked out of the facility, there are limited affordable options with the next level being private care costing about $20,000/mo. It can be done, but not forever.
• alternatively, they could drink themselves into a nursing home (which medicare would ironically cover) but this would be very bleak...and I guess I'm compelled to protect them from that outcome (even if that's what it takes for them to hit bottom...)

In our visit today:

• Mom was VERY sore and seemed to have regret over what happened (despite limited recollection)
• She's "promising" that if we'll just let her have her 6 oz....she'll live up to her "promise" THIS TIME...
• I've reminded her that her word has little meaning when she continues to lie and then break her promises
• I've told her that we'll only consider allowing continued access IF she accepts our requirement that she get counseling starting this week

So, I'm accepting that we will not mandate a change of attitude and that I can't restrict an adults will...but I'm hoping that a counselor will expand her selfish perspective and help her see the implications of her choices.

[bikerchic]

but I did get as far as this one and I could not have said it better:

Mr. Silver - I too am not a professional but among the baptism by fire crowd.

You already know the bottom line - you can't make them stop drinking. Period. By restricting their amounts, diluting their alcohol, etc. all you're doing is enabling them. This, in my opinion, is doing more harm to you personally and your relationship with your parents.

What I would suggest is to bring this information to the attention of their doctors and seek professional guidance. If someone at the facility is providing alcohol that needs to be addressed for a multitude of reasons.

This may sound a bit cold, but it's not your responsibility to make them stop drinking, even as much as you may want too. That is a part of the sickness of alcoholism. If you haven't already done so, you may want to join Al-Anon. I credit them with saving my life and sanity as I got very caught up with feeling responsible for the fact that my ex was drinking and destroying our lives. It was eye opening the extent that I was responsibile for, but it in no way was for how and why he was drinking.

You are an intelligent and compassionate man. Take care of yourself and Silver family first and foremost. Let the professionals guide you with the decisions to be made reguarding your parents. Alcoholism is a family disease and it's effects are far reaching.

Best of luck to you!
__________________
Dar
_____________________________________________
“Handle every stressful situation like a dog - If you can't eat it or hump it, piss on it and walk away...."

Word from the wise, never care more about another person's life than they do. It will consume you and take away from the life you are intended to enjoy and the joy you are intended to give to those you are responsible for ie; wife, children and pets.

[Mr. Bloom]

While I shared the cost of their care...I don't want to convey a "poor me" attitude. My parents led a thrifty life and saved well, have GREAT insurance, and an adequate fixed income. I invest their money well...but I can't squeeze out $20,000/month

I'm a BIG FAN of Long Term Care Insurance. It doesn't pay for everything, but it really takes the edge off...

I'm also a big fan of being active in retirement. I compare Silver's parents to mine...same age, but totally different physical shape. All because of activity.

My parents drink out of habit and BOREDOM...They sit in a chair, watch TV all day, get depressed about everything on TV that is wrong with the world...and drink.

I think that medicare or social security should provide a touring bicycle and helmet to everyone on their retirement day! Now, that would be government largesse well spent!

[silver]

I wanted to elaborate on an issue that has been brought up.

Yes, they are elderly and very unlikely to change. So the attitude is what's the harm of letting them have their alcohol. Basically I would have that attitude and that is the attitude that the doctor has had....

but the context is so much more complicated than this. MIL has celiac and FIL has diabetes. FIL has dementia. The dementia is a result of longterm diabetes and alcohol abuse. The AL facility that they were in was OK with the regulated amount of alcohol each day. 6 ounces to each (served twice a day in three ounces).

But as FIL's dementia and overall condition decreases, his overall health is decreasing and he was not tolerating the alcohol. His blood sugar's were impossible to regulate. The supervisor of the nursing staff told us that they could not continue to provide nursing care to him (monitoring his blood sugar and insulin) as long as he was drinking. During this time, He's been in and out of the ER, ICU and now in the skilled nursing care. He's off alcohol and detoxed and doing quite well actually. But still wants his drink when he gets back to the AL. The Nursing staff told us they would NOT take him back if he was drinking any alcohol.

MIL was doing OK with the 6 ounces/day. AL was fine with that. But MIL was getting another source and would binge on that intermitantly. she did this last night. She fell and hurt herself. I fully expect that the ALF will contact us on Monday and tell us that they cannot continue to accept this liability.

This is the third time that I've taken her to the ER in this similar state. Over the last 2 years. Each time thinking that she could have had a stroke. The first time, she was drunk with a blood alcohol of .38. The second time it was actually a stroke.

If they actually took care of themselves.....I'd say go ahead, drink yourselves to death. But it's not that way. They need daily assistance for regular daily activities, like bathing and dressing. No facility is going to accept the liabiltiy of their drunken accidents. We cannot get nursing care to cover them when they are drunk.

Yes, I've enabled them. I've bought the alcohol. I established the limited drinking schedule. It worked when they adherred to that schedule. but they got more from another source and binge. (edit: on rereading this, I sound sarcastic and defensive, but honestly I'm not, this is just how it is and I'm at my wit's end, I'm really listening to what you all have to say, it helps)

so what do I do? Stop buying it? (I do not believe that MIL's detox would be that bad)

Oh, yet another thing, MIL's liver is failing. She does OK with a limited amount of alcohol, but when she drinks more that the 6 ounces her liver enzymes increase.

sooooooo complicated.

but thank you all so much for discussing this with us. it so helps to see all the perspectives and viewpoints and ideas. Please keep up the info. I'm still digesting it.

[Tuckervill]

What a tough, tough situation. My mother is an alcoholic. One of my brothers is one-year sober. I hope none of this is in my future.

I also hope you can find a way through it with minimal damage to your relationships and your conscience.

Karen

[bikerchic]

opinion, like a second opinion.

But when I read this:

so what do I do? Stop buying it? (I do not believe that MIL's detox would be that bad)

Oh, yet another thing, MIL's liver is failing. She does OK with a limited amount of alcohol, but when she drinks more that the 6 ounces her liver enzymes increase.

sooooooo complicated.

If you are the supplier, quit! It's really not that complicated and sure they will be upset for a while but maybe that's the time you need to really distance yourself from the situation quit supplying them with it and go to Al-anon for support.

Unless I misunderstand the situation if they are in a care facility let the trained people deal with them and get them through detox that is what they are for is to care for them right?

It's really not that complicated, remove yourself from the equation and they won't have the alcohol and you won't have to hear them complain. Sounds simple to me.

Good luck and keep life simple it's really not that hard.

[Irulan]

lots of good advice, I'll ditto some and add some more.

Al-Anon. This is the sister program to AA, but it is for friends, families and loved ones of alcoholics. It won't give you the magic bullet to make them quit, but you can gain tools to live a better life regardless of what they are doing.

2. You didn't cause it, you can't cure it, and you certainly can't control it.

3. Al-anon.

4. buying booze for an alcoholic is being an enabler. If you quit doing it, and they really want it, they will find another way to get it.

but they got more from another source and binge.

It doesn't matter what you do, they will do what they want/need to do, and it is out of your control. The sad thing is, if they choose to drink themselves to death, yes, its horrible to watch and let it happen, but sometimes that's the way these things go.

When my dad broke his leg (drunk fall) and couldn't 'drive, he used to walk two miles each way to the 7-11 in a walking cast to buy his booze. The point is, if a drunk wants to drink, they will figure out how to do it.


http://www.al-anonfamilygroups.org/

[Irulan]

Wonderful Feedback. Thanks! Here are some answers and the rest of the story...

• Yes, Mom is celiac and this exacerabates the problem...
• The doctors are involved and agree that "a couple of drinks a day" is manageable
• the 'source' is not an employee of the facility, and someone currently unknown to us (although I got a couple of suspects out of bed at 3AM this morning)

While understanding that no one was endorsing drinking, I understand that to restrict their access is harsh and possibly impossible. The issue:

• their care is currently costing about $8,000/mo. If they're kicked out of the facility, there are limited affordable options with the next level being private care costing about $20,000/mo. It can be done, but not forever.
• alternatively, they could drink themselves into a nursing home (which medicare would ironically cover) but this would be very bleak...and I guess I'm compelled to protect them from that outcome (even if that's what it takes for them to hit bottom...)

In our visit today:

• Mom was VERY sore and seemed to have regret over what happened (despite limited recollection)
• She's "promising" that if we'll just let her have her 6 oz....she'll live up to her "promise" THIS TIME...
• I've reminded her that her word has little meaning when she continues to lie and then break her promises
• I've told her that we'll only consider allowing continued access IF she accepts our requirement that she get counseling starting this week

So, I'm accepting that we will not mandate a change of attitude and that I can't restrict an adults will...but I'm hoping that a counselor will expand her selfish perspective and help her see the implications of her choices.

this is sad to read because it is so typical of the family dynamic of the FAMILY DISEASE OF ALCOHOLISM. Promises, deals, negotiations.... ultimately it's all BS unless the alcoholic them self decides that they are ready to quit.

Re - intervention. This is not a do it yourself project that you set up with the help of some self help books. Bring in a professional trained to manage these kinds of situations.

[Zen]

this is sad to read because it is so typical of the family dynamic of the FAMILY DISEASE OF ALCOHOLISM. Promises, deals, negotiations.... ultimately it's all BS unless the alcoholic them self decides that they are ready to quit.

I thought the same thing. alcoholics will say whatever they have to to make you leave them alone so they can start drinking again. Addicts lie.

[RoadRaven]

Wow... with all those extra details like medical complications - and health costs/insurance issues which are so different to how things work in this country...

Thank you for both understanding where my post was coming from - I have been bothered it might be interpreted the wrong way...

Well... I am pleased for your parents, Mr Silver, that they have you as a son who is being so measured and caring in your response to treating/dealing with this whole uncomfortable situation.

My thoughts are with you and Silver as you work your way through this situation and completely admire you both for wanting to keep them in a comfortable place - rather than a grotty retirement home.

I hope the culprit who is sneaking the extra booze in is thwarted and your parents are able to continue living out their days in a place where you all feel better about it.

Sadly here in NZ, we have developed a culture of popping our elders into a home as soon as they become a "nuisance" and then conveniently forget them.

[salsabike]

opinion, like a second opinion.

But when I read this:



If you are the supplier, quit! It's really not that complicated and sure they will be upset for a while but maybe that's the time you need to really distance yourself from the situation quit supplying them with it and go to Al-anon for support.

Unless I misunderstand the situation if they are in a care facility let the trained people deal with them and get them through detox that is what they are for is to care for them right?

It's really not that complicated, remove yourself from the equation and they won't have the alcohol and you won't have to hear them complain. Sounds simple to me.

Good luck and keep life simple it's really not that hard.

Assisted living is not a hospital, just a place where they provide some help with activities of daily living like dressing, bathing, or taking meds. Assisted living cannot provide the kind of medical care needed for safe detox, and it sounds like they would have significant medical withdrawal symptoms if all alcohol was suddenly removed. I think it is not that simple.

Silver, I don't think you sound sarcastic or defensive, just understandably tired and frustrated and sad and worried. It may be that they will not be able to stay in assisted living because of this issue. All I would say is, consult a physician if you expect they will be experiencing complete withdrawal of alcohol since it may be medically dangerous.

[KSH]

Interesting issue you have there.

I have a feeling I'm going to be there in the next 10-15 years if my Dad lives that long.

My Dad was an alcoholic and then he sobered up... when I was around 8/10 years old (I didn't live with him when he was a drunk). He stayed sober until I was 32 years old. I am now 35.

It was then that he retired and decided to sell the house (he and my stepmom got divorced)... and buy an RV to live. He also decided to start drinking again. Yep. A home on wheels AND drinking. Luckily he parks it at an RV park 90% of the year.

I have had to come to terms with the fact that he's going to kill himself with booze. There's no way a 63 year old man can drink from sun up to sun down... and live to be a ripe old age.

If he does live to be as old as you parents... I'm not sure what I'll do when he's falling down and ending up in the hospital because he's drunk and hurt himself.

Unfortunately, because they are causing phsyical harm to themselves that requires medical attention... you are going to have to get tough about them not drinking. If they were like my Dad... maintaining themselves and being drunk... I'd say leave them alone... but you can't do that.

Good luck and try to make their remaining days happy ones... as best you can... by finding a balance for everyone involved.

[KSH]

I wanted to elaborate on an issue that has been brought up.

Yes, they are elderly and very unlikely to change. So the attitude is what's the harm of letting them have their alcohol. Basically I would have that attitude and that is the attitude that the doctor has had....

but the context is so much more complicated than this. MIL has celiac and FIL has diabetes. FIL has dementia. The dementia is a result of longterm diabetes and alcohol abuse. The AL facility that they were in was OK with the regulated amount of alcohol each day. 6 ounces to each (served twice a day in three ounces).

But as FIL's dementia and overall condition decreases, his overall health is decreasing and he was not tolerating the alcohol. His blood sugar's were impossible to regulate. The supervisor of the nursing staff told us that they could not continue to provide nursing care to him (monitoring his blood sugar and insulin) as long as he was drinking. During this time, He's been in and out of the ER, ICU and now in the skilled nursing care. He's off alcohol and detoxed and doing quite well actually. But still wants his drink when he gets back to the AL. The Nursing staff told us they would NOT take him back if he was drinking any alcohol.

MIL was doing OK with the 6 ounces/day. AL was fine with that. But MIL was getting another source and would binge on that intermitantly. she did this last night. She fell and hurt herself. I fully expect that the ALF will contact us on Monday and tell us that they cannot continue to accept this liability.

This is the third time that I've taken her to the ER in this similar state. Over the last 2 years. Each time thinking that she could have had a stroke. The first time, she was drunk with a blood alcohol of .38. The second time it was actually a stroke.

If they actually took care of themselves.....I'd say go ahead, drink yourselves to death. But it's not that way. They need daily assistance for regular daily activities, like bathing and dressing. No facility is going to accept the liabiltiy of their drunken accidents. We cannot get nursing care to cover them when they are drunk.

Yes, I've enabled them. I've bought the alcohol. I established the limited drinking schedule. It worked when they adherred to that schedule. but they got more from another source and binge. (edit: on rereading this, I sound sarcastic and defensive, but honestly I'm not, this is just how it is and I'm at my wit's end, I'm really listening to what you all have to say, it helps)

so what do I do? Stop buying it? (I do not believe that MIL's detox would be that bad)

Oh, yet another thing, MIL's liver is failing. She does OK with a limited amount of alcohol, but when she drinks more that the 6 ounces her liver enzymes increase.

sooooooo complicated.

but thank you all so much for discussing this with us. it so helps to see all the perspectives and viewpoints and ideas. Please keep up the info. I'm still digesting it.

Hey, you aren't being defensive.

It sounds like you and Mr. are doing your best to find a balance... and you found one... and it got unbalanced due to an inside supplier of alcohol.

My Grandmother was in a nice assisted living center... until she got so bad off phyiscally, they had to send her to a nursing home. Yes, it was horrible. She went there to die. And I know the two of you do not want to see them end up in a nursing home because they can't stop drinking.

The key here is that they can't take care of themselves. They are like teenagers... and as the care takers... you have to make sure they can live in a nice place and they can get taken care of. You also have to make sure they don't get kicked out.

Do what you have to do to keep them in assisted living. Hopefully they can give up the booze so they can continue living there.