Ladies, women, girls....

[kelownagirl]

This topic came up the other day as we were watching the IM Canada. DH kept referring to the women racers as "ladies" as in "that lady is running strong" or "I like that lady's bike" etc. I told him I much preferred the word "woman" instead of "lady", particularly since we were talking about female athletes, most of whom were in their 20-40's. In my mind, the word lady conjures up high heels, nylons and a dress to me. Somehow it sounds a little condescending in this context.

I know he does not mean it disrespectfully, in fact, I'm quite certain that in his mind, he's trying to sound very respectful, but for some reason, it bugs me.

Is it just me? What you prefer to be called in that situation? I told him I was going to ask you "women" and see what kind of feedback I got.

Thanks,

The very unladylike, kelownagirl

[teawoman]

Yup. Woman. People (esp. men) seem a lot more scared of that word than the word man.

Should add that I don't think ppl who use the term mean to be disrespectful...just that they seem to be tiptoeing around something.

[Wahine]

Well, I don't consider myself lady-like at all but it doesn't bother me to be called a lady.

Having said that, I would typically refer to a female athlete as a woman, not a lady. Somehow lady just seems a little weird to me.

[Zen]

It's situational.
In this case the use of "lady' seems odd.
I prefer to be a woman.

[lph]

Language is important, it conveys preconceptions and cements them as well, so it does matter what you call people. I make a point out of using "woman" as much as possible, even though i Norwegian almost everyone uses "lady" to describe a woman in general. In general, I am a woman, not a girl or a lady, which imply certain characteristics.

Being a girl either means you're young(er) or implies familiarity. Somebody who doesn't know me has no business calling me a girl. Being a lady is the female equivalent of a gentleman, and implies sophistication, elegance, fine clothes and good manners. In a athletic setting that's just absurd.

In case you couldn't tell, this is one of my pet peeves

[RoadRaven]

It peeves me when I hear "ladies" and "men"
They are not a match

If you are not going to call something a "gentleman's race", then don't call us "ladies".

It should be women and men, its simple, its honest and carries no preconceptions or possible offence...

[RoadRaven]

Oh... and I managed to avoid "girls"

I must admit I refer to my colleagues as girls, and I don't mind it on commentary as long as the men are also being referred to as boys or lads...

[cyclingmom01]

This topic honestly has never crossed my mind. I'm in Georgia & I would like to think hsopitality is still alive. Guys open doors for gals, etc. Heck my 9 y/o son even opens my car door for me. I was raised to show any elder respect by calling them sir or maam. When I entered the military and called a non-commisioned officer sir or maam, I got "dropped" & had to do push-ups. That was a hard habit for me to break. I guess my point is that it's a habit. Don't get hung up on it. I don't see it as derogatory in anyway.

[lyca]

If you are not going to call something a "gentleman's race", then don't call us "ladies".

That's exactly what I was thinking. I wonder if part of the problem is that we don't have a female match for the word "guy". If I'm watching a male race (or any male sport) I feel comfortable saying "Hey, that guy is so fast!"

If I substitute "man" for "guy", it feels very formal. (though I'm sure I could get used to it)

Is there a more casual word for "woman"? The only think I can think of is "chick" and that has negative connotations. (Admittedly, though, I sometimes use it... )

Maybe we can make one up!

[Thorn]

Woman vote here for the reasons mentioned--lady has the same connotation as gentleman.

When people use lady, I'll turn around and use the word gentleman. Except to the southerner I worked with, that usually causes a few looks.

But more so, I'm known for eliminating gender, just as I eliminate race in initial descriptions. Drives people nuts, but, if you're referring to a persons work or actions, gender and race are not relevant.

But, related, do you cringe or accept the current usage of "guy" as a gender neutral address?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

In the old days it was considered rather crude to call someone a "woman" unless it was meant in a bad way- implying that she was "no lady".
Many people of the past generation still automatically use "lady" rather than "woman" out of respect.

You know, the US is a big country full of people of all ages and regions and cultural backgrounds. Terms like lady, woman, Miss, Ma'am, etc are natural regional, generational, and cultural variations- perhaps we should not get too wrapped up in trying to get everyone to use the terms we prefer. I do agree that calling women "girls" is rather dated and at this point.
I lived in Puerto Rico for many years, where I learned to refer to a boy child using a certain term. I was talking to some Mexican women the other day in Spaish, and when I asked if one of them had just given birth to a girl or a boy, they looked at each other all shocked and then burst out laughing....what had I done??? Well apparently in Mexico one only uses that term to describe a male ANIMAL, never a person! So hard to be correct with everyone! Too funny.

[lph]

That's exactly what I was thinking. I wonder if part of the problem is that we don't have a female match for the word "guy". If I'm watching a male race (or any male sport) I feel comfortable saying "Hey, that guy is so fast!"

If I substitute "man" for "guy", it feels very formal. (though I'm sure I could get used to it)

Is there a more casual word for "woman"? The only think I can think of is "chick" and that has negative connotations. (Admittedly, though, I sometimes use it... )

Maybe we can make one up!

I agree. In fact I pointed out a few years back that from now on I was calling ALL my climbing friends "dudes" or "guys", male or female so it's kind of an in-joke. I like the friendly sound. Female friends sometimes say "hey, babe", but my male friends don't dare

Actually I remember somebody here on this board commenting on the "cool chickie" on the logo at the top of the page, I thought that sounded neat.

[Pax]

I prefer "woman", although if the individual calling me a "lady" is either elderly or Southern (being aware of age or culture) I try to accept it gracefully.

Thorn - I don't accept "guys" as gender neutral...it makes me nuts when a waiter asks "what can I get you guys" to a table of women. Until it's neutral for them to go up to a table of males and ask "what can I get you gals"...I'll just stick with the gender neutral "folks".

[Bad JuJu]

For years, I was practically militant about this. I insisted on being called a woman by everyone in every situation and anyone who didn't comply got a lecture. Well, now that I'm in my enlightened mid-50s, I've relaxed a bit and realize that, as Zen said, it's situational. Older people and many southern men use "lady" as a term of respect, and that I can live with.

What still bugs me, though, is being called "girl." Many people just assume that I prefer to be thought of as younger than I am--which I don't. Guess you could say I'm on a personal mission to fight the perception that younger is better and we should all want to look and seem younger than we are. I can't stand that.

But I've noticed that my younger students have embraced "girl"--I'm talking about college freshmen. They have no problem being called girls, and no problem calling other women "girls," even those older than themselves. Sometimes we talk about this in class, but it seems like a losing battle. I just have to remind myself that language comes and goes, like fashion, and the pendulum will eventually swing back the other way.

I also think that many people, men and women both, avoid the term "woman" for whatever reason. They don't mind calling a man a man, but balk at calling a grown-up female a woman. That drives me crazy. I think this is where we get the widespread use of "lady," the continuing, maddening use of "girl," and even in some situations, "female." I noticed that last when I was in the navy--men were "men" but women were "females." I tried to put a stop to that, too, in my little sphere of influence. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[lyca]

But I've noticed that my younger students have embraced "girl"--I'm talking about college freshmen. They have no problem being called girls, and no problem calling other women "girls," even those older than themselves.

I've noticed this, too. I work with a university Women's Glee Club as part of my assistantship and have found that they almost ALWAYS refer to each other as "girls". I think for them, and for many younger and college age women, it is a term of endearment...a bonding thing. They also embrace "women", but don't use that term as often when addressing each other.

In rehearsal situations, I almost always address the women in my groups (regardless of age...from grade school to my adult choir) and "ladies" and the men as "gentlemen". Of course, someone in the tenor section will usually raise his hand and ask if I want them to sing, too, since I only asked for the "gentlemen".