Ladies, women, girls....

[RoadRaven]

It peeves me when I hear "ladies" and "men"
They are not a match

If you are not going to call something a "gentleman's race", then don't call us "ladies".

It should be women and men, its simple, its honest and carries no preconceptions or possible offence...

[RoadRaven]

Oh... and I managed to avoid "girls"

I must admit I refer to my colleagues as girls, and I don't mind it on commentary as long as the men are also being referred to as boys or lads...

[cyclingmom01]

This topic honestly has never crossed my mind. I'm in Georgia & I would like to think hsopitality is still alive. Guys open doors for gals, etc. Heck my 9 y/o son even opens my car door for me. I was raised to show any elder respect by calling them sir or maam. When I entered the military and called a non-commisioned officer sir or maam, I got "dropped" & had to do push-ups. That was a hard habit for me to break. I guess my point is that it's a habit. Don't get hung up on it. I don't see it as derogatory in anyway.

[Thorn]

Woman vote here for the reasons mentioned--lady has the same connotation as gentleman.

When people use lady, I'll turn around and use the word gentleman. Except to the southerner I worked with, that usually causes a few looks.

But more so, I'm known for eliminating gender, just as I eliminate race in initial descriptions. Drives people nuts, but, if you're referring to a persons work or actions, gender and race are not relevant.

But, related, do you cringe or accept the current usage of "guy" as a gender neutral address?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

In the old days it was considered rather crude to call someone a "woman" unless it was meant in a bad way- implying that she was "no lady".
Many people of the past generation still automatically use "lady" rather than "woman" out of respect.

You know, the US is a big country full of people of all ages and regions and cultural backgrounds. Terms like lady, woman, Miss, Ma'am, etc are natural regional, generational, and cultural variations- perhaps we should not get too wrapped up in trying to get everyone to use the terms we prefer. I do agree that calling women "girls" is rather dated and at this point.
I lived in Puerto Rico for many years, where I learned to refer to a boy child using a certain term. I was talking to some Mexican women the other day in Spaish, and when I asked if one of them had just given birth to a girl or a boy, they looked at each other all shocked and then burst out laughing....what had I done??? Well apparently in Mexico one only uses that term to describe a male ANIMAL, never a person! So hard to be correct with everyone! Too funny.

[Pax]

I prefer "woman", although if the individual calling me a "lady" is either elderly or Southern (being aware of age or culture) I try to accept it gracefully.

Thorn - I don't accept "guys" as gender neutral...it makes me nuts when a waiter asks "what can I get you guys" to a table of women. Until it's neutral for them to go up to a table of males and ask "what can I get you gals"...I'll just stick with the gender neutral "folks".

[Bad JuJu]

For years, I was practically militant about this. I insisted on being called a woman by everyone in every situation and anyone who didn't comply got a lecture. Well, now that I'm in my enlightened mid-50s, I've relaxed a bit and realize that, as Zen said, it's situational. Older people and many southern men use "lady" as a term of respect, and that I can live with.

What still bugs me, though, is being called "girl." Many people just assume that I prefer to be thought of as younger than I am--which I don't. Guess you could say I'm on a personal mission to fight the perception that younger is better and we should all want to look and seem younger than we are. I can't stand that.

But I've noticed that my younger students have embraced "girl"--I'm talking about college freshmen. They have no problem being called girls, and no problem calling other women "girls," even those older than themselves. Sometimes we talk about this in class, but it seems like a losing battle. I just have to remind myself that language comes and goes, like fashion, and the pendulum will eventually swing back the other way.

I also think that many people, men and women both, avoid the term "woman" for whatever reason. They don't mind calling a man a man, but balk at calling a grown-up female a woman. That drives me crazy. I think this is where we get the widespread use of "lady," the continuing, maddening use of "girl," and even in some situations, "female." I noticed that last when I was in the navy--men were "men" but women were "females." I tried to put a stop to that, too, in my little sphere of influence. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[lyca]

If you are not going to call something a "gentleman's race", then don't call us "ladies".

That's exactly what I was thinking. I wonder if part of the problem is that we don't have a female match for the word "guy". If I'm watching a male race (or any male sport) I feel comfortable saying "Hey, that guy is so fast!"

If I substitute "man" for "guy", it feels very formal. (though I'm sure I could get used to it)

Is there a more casual word for "woman"? The only think I can think of is "chick" and that has negative connotations. (Admittedly, though, I sometimes use it... )

Maybe we can make one up!

[lph]

That's exactly what I was thinking. I wonder if part of the problem is that we don't have a female match for the word "guy". If I'm watching a male race (or any male sport) I feel comfortable saying "Hey, that guy is so fast!"

If I substitute "man" for "guy", it feels very formal. (though I'm sure I could get used to it)

Is there a more casual word for "woman"? The only think I can think of is "chick" and that has negative connotations. (Admittedly, though, I sometimes use it... )

Maybe we can make one up!

I agree. In fact I pointed out a few years back that from now on I was calling ALL my climbing friends "dudes" or "guys", male or female so it's kind of an in-joke. I like the friendly sound. Female friends sometimes say "hey, babe", but my male friends don't dare

Actually I remember somebody here on this board commenting on the "cool chickie" on the logo at the top of the page, I thought that sounded neat.

[Tuckervill]

That's exactly what I was thinking. I wonder if part of the problem is that we don't have a female match for the word "guy". If I'm watching a male race (or any male sport) I feel comfortable saying "Hey, that guy is so fast!"

If I substitute "man" for "guy", it feels very formal. (though I'm sure I could get used to it)

Is there a more casual word for "woman"? The only think I can think of is "chick" and that has negative connotations. (Admittedly, though, I sometimes use it... )

Maybe we can make one up!

I think gal is the counterpart to guy.

Yes, I try to use woman instead of lady. I use the word guy a lot, but I hardly ever say gal.

Karen

[Starfish]

I think gal is the counterpart to guy.

What was that musical? Guys 'N Dolls? Maybe we should start calling each other Doll!!

JUST KIDDING!!!

[Zen]

What was that musical? Guys 'N Dolls? Maybe we should start calling each other Doll!!

Hello, Doll
Makes me think of a black and white movie about a down on his luck detective.
A gumshoe, if you will.

[kelownagirl]

I dated a guy when I was 19 who always called me "Doll". I liked it at the time. Not sure if I would now though...

[teigyr]

I guess I wonder if we want to be neutral? It's hard to say because it's all in intent for me. Sometimes I can swallow my pride and let things go if the person really means well. I don't see myself as a ma'am or a lady or a woman or a female at all, if truth be told. I like girly stuff, but I'm my own person. I also understand that other people, like us, mean well but don't know how to classify well.

So in the knowledge that our language is patriarchal in nature, what would you call a female athlete? Or someone competing against the big boys?

(I can say that, I swam in the big girl/boy lane at the gym AND I did 30 laps. Means I can say these things, right?)

[Trek420]

What was that musical? Guys 'N Dolls? Maybe we should start calling each other Doll!!

JUST KIDDING!!!

or South Pacific? "What ain't we got? we ain't got Dames"

As for me, I prefer the term "pushy broad" for myself

It's all context, the situation, your perception, and speakers intent and history. Language is fascinating that way. Seriously the child-like terms like "girl" while mostly well meant can have other meaning.

For example this being an international board some might not know that in the States it was quite common and may still be in some areas for men of color especially black men would never be addressed as "men" but always called "boy" or "boys".

I'm honestly unsure if it was the same term and intent for "girl"

I watched an athlete being interviewed about his team and their being especially supportive, the interviewer said something like "They're your boys" I'm sure she meant well as in "they backed you up well, you work together as a team" but you could see it still today as the athlete looked momentarily seriously offended then recovered on screen "ok. let's let it go and laugh. Let's move on, I'm sure she'll get heck from the producers".

But speaking personally I don't much mind; girl, lady, dame, grrl whatever you call me.. though I may bristle at the "honey, sweetie, dear..." unless you actualy are my "honey, sweetie or dear" or you are a truck stop waitress in which case there better be coffee and pie involved.