I have some questions about whether or not I should buy an older steel bike and fix it up. Has anyone here done this or know about what to look for when purchasing something like this?
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I have some questions about whether or not I should buy an older steel bike and fix it up. Has anyone here done this or know about what to look for when purchasing something like this?
Although there are a lot of not very nice people over at bikeforums.net, the guys on the classic/vintage forum are really helpful and pretty much know everything. And older steel road bikes are the main thing they talk about.
My husband and I have a lot of old steel road bikes that we've picked up here and there, but nothing very exciting or exotic, and I only know what I've learned from reading bikeforums.net.
I think there's some definite steel expertise here. What kind of bike are you looking at? Lugged or unlugged? Weight? Brand name? Tubing? Frame angles? Wheelbase? What use do you want to get out of the bike? Commuting, fast rides, touring?
Maybe the first big question is whether the frame really fits you.
can you tell? Deb knows more about steel bikes than we'll ever even understand!
And she's 100% correct. does the bike fit?
If you ever find a Reynolds 531 or Columbus tubing frame in your size, grab it. But you'd want to know if it's straight-gage, double butted, or triple butted. Straight-gage can be rather stiff, and triple-butted could potentially be a bit whippy. That's the high end of the steel vintage market.
At the low end are American-made frames, usually welded, not lugged, that take 1-piece cranks and weigh too much. Best to avoid them.
In the middle are various grades of chrome-moly steel.
Okay...great! I have some interested people. Sometimes I get ignored on cyclingforums.com.
It's a Miyata 710. It needs some TLC for sure. The rear cogs and derailleur were gunked up, some surface rust on the chain (nothing major). The frame itself has some scratches and a few rust spots. The tires will need to be replaced and the brakes need something! Adjustment - maybe new pads.
It's pretty close to fitting. The measurements are a little different from my Trek, but really close. Standover is fine. The top tube is a tad long (maybe 1/2 longer than my trek, but the stem is shorter than on my Trek). I moved the seat up (is was back far) and that helped. Riding it is comfy, but reaching the brakes is tricky. The brakes are kind of far down and since many people don't ride on the hoods on the older bikes, they can be hard to get to.
The tires had barely enough air in them and despite the gunk on the parts, I could not believe how nice this bike shifted. It was like butter! The ride was really smooth, too.
I guess I was looking for a vintage steel bike just for variety. I have a Trek 1500 which is great, but I thought steel might be nice for...maybe some medium to long rides. I figured if I could find something cheap and not have to put much money in it, I could have a neat vintage ride.
The guy was asking $95, but I thought of offering him less because of the tires and such.
Thoughts? Advice? Thank you!
make an offer! if he doesn't like it, you can always come up with the $95.00
right?
And welcome to the club. There are a lot of us here struggling with (or who have struggled with) top tubes that are too long.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DebW
Wow, maybe my bike fits this category?? It's Reynolds 531 & lugged. Of course, its rider is vintage too...
Post a picture so I can drool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogmama
A quick search on Miyata 710 looks like its a very nice frame. Not 531, but quite nice nonetheless. How many cogs and chainrings? Where are the shifters located (downtube?)? The 5 and 6 speed freewheels are now hard, but not impossible, to get. Definitely start with a new chain. What kind of crankset? Derailleurs? Brakes? 27 inch or 700c wheels? You shouldn't have any major problem with replacement parts. The brake levers can probably be moved so you can reach them easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaian
It's a 10 speed so 2 X 5. Downtube shifters. The crankset is a Sugino - it's pretty cool looking. Derailleurs are Suntour Cyclones. 700c wheels that are made by Ukai. The brakes are Dia Compe, but they need some help.
I have a friend who thinks this will be easy to clean up and get in working order. He hasn't seen the bike, but just from my description, that's his take.
I don't like Dia Compe brakes. They flex too much and never feel as solid as they should. You can probably get them working adequately, but I'd consider replacing them at some point. Weinneman's of the same vintage were much better if you can find a pair. Nice to hear that it shifts like butter. Downtube shifters give you a nice direct link to the derailleurs with minumal cabling.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaian
I'd agree with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaian
Ask the seller if he has the crank puller or freewheel puller for this bike. Sugino might take the most standard and easily available puller, but you need to be sure you've got one. What make is the freewheel? Suntour? They made a 2-prong and a 4-prong version. I'd suggest checking out the hub, bb, and headset bearings when you get the bike and repack as necessary. A lot of people ignore their bearing until they are shot.
Hmmm...looks like I'll be learning some more in-depth bike mechanics. Thanks so much for the info. I emailed the guy to let him know I'd like to come back and look at it again (and possibly buy). I made him a low offer, so we'll see what he comes back with.
I have no idea how to repack bearings, but I'm hoping my friend can help me. I doubt this guy has the crank puller. He's not the original owner and expressed that he doesn't know much about the bike. Thanks for the tip on the brakes! They felt pretty squishy and useless, but again, I wasn't sure if it was because they have been neglected for so long.
Squishy is an appropriate term for Dia Compe brakes. Of course I don't know if theyQuote:
Originally Posted by kaian
are adjusted as well as possible, but they really do feel squishy under the best of circumstances.
Kaian, thanks for starting this thread. Didn't know there was a steel person here.
I bought a used steel bike too. It's a Panasonic. That's about all I know about it. I too have the dia compe brakes, Shimano SIS components, Araya 700cc wheels, downtube shifters, 6x2 (12 speed).
I have a friend who has a person come out to do mechanical work on their bikes and he's apparently pretty cheap. How much money should I put into it before it's no longer worthwhile?
I kinda like the nice clean look of the older bikes. Just simple and clean.
Here's some (bad) pics if anyone's curious: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rogued...cd.jpg&.src=ph
Wow, where are you all finding these old bikes with 700c wheels? Ours are all 27", with the exception of a couple from the 90s. I'm jealous, 700c are so much easier to find.
We are going to try to see if 700cs will work on my mixte (it's really just a matter of whether the brakes will reach) because otherwise I am going to have to order a custom wheelset ... I need a touring wheelset with a flip-flop hub because it's a single speed but I carry tons of groceries, and nobody stocks such a thing in 27". (Harris Cyclery used to, but not anymore.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaian
Hoo baby! If you don't take this Miyata, can I have it? :D Others' comments about the DiaCompe brakes are valid; if you want to keep the bike close to original, try to find a set of Gran-Compe brakes. Made by DiaCompe, but MUCH better made.
By the sound of the component set, the frame may well be Ishiwata or Tange (formerly Champion) tubing.....probably butted. And man..SunTour Cyclone drivetrain???
The SunTour Cyclone (and Cyclone II) line was GREAT stuff....better than Shimano and as durable and functional as Simplex, Huret, and Campy.
If you have trouble reaching the brakes, you can try rotating the bars "forward", and moving the brakes up the curve of the bar until you find a comfortable spot. Or...a stem with a shorter reach.
For a little money, and assuming it can be adjusted to fit you well, this bike can be made into a real beaut. Good luck with it!!
Edit: don't forget to have the frame checked for internal rust. Light-to-moderate rust inside the frame tubes can be neutralized, then treated to help prevent further corrosion.
Are you talking about me? DebW, woman of steel - sounds like a superhero.Quote:
Originally Posted by roguedog
Now maybe that's my next occupation: DebW, the traveling steel bike doctor and cheap date. [Note that "date" refers to an appointment with a bicycle (either gender accepted).]Quote:
Originally Posted by roguedog
Or DebW, the mail order vintage wheelbuilder - send me your vintage hub and I'll add a new rim.Quote:
Originally Posted by xeney
How would one check for internal rust??? Is there anything I can look for BEFORE I buy it that would tell me whether or not there is rust on the inside?
The only easy thing I can think of is to pull out the seatpost and look in the seat tube. The area around the bottom bracket would be more telling, but not easy to get a peak into. A feel for the condition of the bottom bracket would be a clue. If the bb feels well greased and adjusted, then someone has probably taken care of it regularly, and a good grease job keeps water out. A bb is best felt without the crank arms on the spindle, but barring that, drop the chain off the inner chainring and give the crank a feel and a spin. Spinning freely and smoothly is good. Also try to wiggle the crank arms in directions other than around in circles - any unwanted movement here is bad. Oh, and ask the current owner if he rides in the rain.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaian
Exactly. Also check for external rust. Especially under the frame tubes, under the BB and chainstays. Check the steel parts of the components (cable clamp bolts, pivots, derailleur springs, brake springs, etc). Check the tiny holes on the inside of the chain and seat stays, and the fork (they are there to allow the frame to breathe; if they are blocked with grunge, any moisture trapped inside the frame can't evaporate and can cause problems)Quote:
Originally Posted by DebW
Minor rust spots from small chips and scratches in the paint is usually nothing to worry about. Larger rusty areas, rust bubbles under the paint, and/or excessively corroded steel component parts can indicate the bike was used or stored in the rain and maybe not cared for as well as it should have been. That's when you want to pull the BB, fork, and have a better look inside.
Chances of major problems from rust is pretty low. I've rejected maybe two or three potential restoration frames in 30 years of restoring steel bikes. However, if you do buy the bike and it needs to be disassembled for cleaning and adjustment, you may wish to have the frame treated internally anyway. It's easy and cheap, if a little messy.
Well, I ended up buying the bike. I got it for $50! It does need some major cleaning and I will probably be taking the bike apart to look at everything. I'm already thinking of handle bar tap colors and matching the bottle cages. hahaha. I'm not even a girly-girl! hahaha.
So how would I treat the bike for rust - since I am taking it all apart? Popoki Nui, you mentioned it was cheap and easy?
There are some surface rust spots and spots where paint is missing. My friend who is helping says he has some ideas on how to deal with those things and that red is easy to match (for touch-up paint). He has restored bikes and cars, so I'm assuming he knows what he's talking about.
I am a grad student, so I am swamped with homework right now, so I probably won't be able to start working on the bike until after Nov. 1st. Perhaps I'll post some "before" pictures, so everyone can see!
Hi kaian: you can do this in a one-step (rustproof only), or two-step (neutralize and rustproof) process. You will need to get:
-duct tape
-rust neutralizer liquid (for the two-step process) Any automotive store should carry it. Look for names like Rust-Chek or Rust-Stop, etc. Get a can of liquid; spray cans won't really work here.
-a litre (or pint ) of boiled linseed oil. Any hardware store should have it. Alternately, you can buy any of several bike-specific frame treatment products like Frame-Savr etc. Linseed oil works as well and is usually much cheaper.
-When the front fork and BB, are removed, tape over all those openings completely with duct tape. Also tape over the hole in the chainstay bridge (the small tube connecting the chainstays right behind the BB)
-poke a few small holes in the duct tape at all those locations with a safety pin or something similar
-locate the tiny frame breather holes (usually on the inner side of the chain and seat stays near the rear dropouts, and at the top of the seat stays where they are brazed to the frame up near the seatpost). Carefully clean them out using the tip of a safety pin on thin piece of wire. Don't tape over them.
Two-step process (go to step 2 if you are only rustproofing, and not neutralizing as well):
1)- pour a litre (or pint) of rust neutralizer liquid into the seatpost opening and insert the seatpost back in and tighten the bolt. Then simply rotate the frame slowly by hand, end-over-end and side-over-side several times (slowly) to allow the neutralizer to reach and treat all the internal tubes and joints. Watch for the liquid seeping out the holes you poked in the duct tape, and the frame breather holes. This will help tell you when the liquid is getting to the right places.
-remove the seatpost, and allow all excess liquid to drain out. This may take a while. Rotate the frame occasionally.
-let the frame dry overnight in a warm location.
2)-remove the seatpost and pour a litre or pint of boiled linseed oil into the frame, insert the seatpost again, and use the same slow end-over-end and side-over-side procedure several times to coat all the internal surfaces and joints. This works best in a warm location. When you're sure you have coated all the internal surfaces, remove all the duct tape and drain the excess oil from the frame. Rotate end-over-end etc often until ALL excess oil has drained. Be patient. It may take several hours or even overnight for all the oil to drain out. Allow the frame to dry well. This can take a few days depending on the temperature. Rotate the frame occasionally.
-clean out those tiny seat and chainstay holes with a safety pin so the frame will breathe properly.
-wash all excess oil off the frame, and off the BB threads only, and you're ready to rebuild.
Good luck!
~Sherry.
Wow...thank you! :)
I will post some pics tomorrow so everyone can see what I'm working with. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaian
Yes please! :D
Take plenty of pics as you go through the overhaul process. They're fun to look at later!
Have fun with it!
~Sher.
Moved from another thread... Yeah. I'm saving my nickels and pennies, and the day I have my major debts paid off and can start on student loan debt (HA!) I'm going to invest in an older steel cx bike.
Sure new bikes are nice, but I dream of looking over a '70s Raleigh or Schwinn, running my fingers over little scratches from everyday use, feeling her take the pavement and paths with well-practiced grace and ride her the way she'd been waiting for. I'd assure her that her scuffs are the imperfections that create her perfection and uniqueness. She'd have a Brooks saddle, and I'd learn how to wrap and varnish her handlebars, just for her. A classic beauty, and she'd be mine.
*sigh*
Your DGF might be jealous if she read this, Kit. Go for the Rayleigh and I might be jealous too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsune06
She's a hot '70s model, too. She'd understand. ;) Maybe.
I hope she never reads this all... just the same. :D
Keep in mind, she is 12 years and 50,000 miles old. This is a custom bike. It is Reynolds steel & C-Chorus.Quote:
Originally Posted by DebW
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Wow. *wipes drool off keyboard* Was it custom made for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogmama
What do you call the headbadge/lug cutout?
Here are some pics of the Miyata 710 I just bought. I took a lot more pics than this for anyone who wants to see more close-ups of certain parts.
I'm trying to decide on handle bar tape and bottle cage colors - any suggestions? The logo is silver, so I thought about matching that, but not sure. I think I'm going to get some tires from Performance. I was thinking about some Continental Ultras because they have some for pretty cheap right now. Should I go with 23s or 25s for this bike?
I'll probably start working on the bike in about 2 weeks when I have more time. I'm planning on doing the anti internal rust thing and then also re-lubing the bottom bracket as well as doing a thorough cleaning and eventually getting rid of outer rust spots and paint chips (I'll need to find some touch-up paint). My experienced bike building friend said he thought the wheels felt solid and probably do not need new bearings at this point. After looking at it, he thinks the bike probably didn't get ridden a lot, but just sat around a lot. He also said that he doesn't think we'll need to replace the chain right off the bat if it's not skipping. ????
I'm new to this stuff, so if there are more great suggestions, please send them my way. I'd like other opinions besides the ones my friend is giving me. He has sort of an "old school" way of doing things, which is cool, but I'd like all kinds of perspectives. Thanks again!!!!
Nice!! A good cleaning and tuneup and you should get many happy years out of her.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaian
What about red bar tape, and silver bottle cages? You mentioned having a little difficulty reaching the brake hoods: since you have aero hoods, you may not be able to slide them up towards you very much. In that case, you may want to get a stem with a shorter reach.
Good luck and have fun working on her!
Wow is right! Who built it? I don't recognize the logo. Mmm...mmm.....sweet bike!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogmama
The foam handlebar stuff will be easiest to cut off (that stuff is a bear to put on). Some bandage scissors would do the trick without scratching the bars. Once the bars are bare, you can loosen the brake levers and move them around until you like them. They are twisted too much inside right now. Ultimately you might prefer a different bar - those have a long drop and a short reach.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaian
I would replace the rusty chain. You don't know if there is rust inside the pins that might make the chain weak. An SRAM PC58 would be a good replacement. If the cables have any rust at all (or maybe even if they don't) you should replace them and the housing and lube it up good. If it were mine, I'd want to open the hubs before long to check them out. And make sure the freewheel can be removed. Remember to grease the freewheel threads before you put it back.
The freewheel has 6 chain rings in the back, so wouldn't I need a 6 speed chain? It looks like the SRAM PC58 is an 8spd chain. Or does it not matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Popoki_Nui
Thanks. It was built by a custom frame builder in Tucson, Andy Gilmour. Deb - yes it was built for me. The first time I road it, it was like wearing a really comfortable pair of shoes. It just fits. The cut out is a Thunderbird.
The chain DebW recommended should be fine. I use similar ones on my 5 and 6 speed vintage bikes with no problems. You probably won't be able to find new chains for 6 speed cogsets these days; cassettes are 8, 9, or 10 speeds now.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaian
Okay...sorry for all of the questions, but I am really clueless as to the type of parts to get. What kind of brake pads would I get for the Dia Compe side pull brakes? Also, should I get new cables and housing for brakes and shifters? Do I need to stick to sidepulls or would it be easy to upgrade the brakes somehow in the future (inexpensively)?
Thanks again for all of the help.
My old school fixer-upper friend hasn't really mentioned replacing the brake pads or cables, so I just wasn't sure if it's a must and also what would be compatible.
For brake pads, most any road brake pad will work, just not cantilever or V-brake. You can find original DiaCompe brake shoes hereQuote:
Originally Posted by kaian
http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi...id=24151434173
or the Shimano 105 or Ultegra or KoolStop threaded on the same page will work. The old ones may be OK if they still feel like rubber, but if they feel hard, stiff, or dry, replace them. I'd suggest new cables and housing because (1) it cheap, (2) you have to pull the old stuff off anyway for rustproof treatment and it's easier to put back new than old, and (3) old ones could be rusty and more likely to break or have more friction.
It would be easier to stick with sidepull brakes. What else would you want? Centerpulls would require cable hangers on the headset and seatpost bolt. Cantilevers would require braze-on fork and seattube fittings.
OK, you steel women got me thinking...
There is a good looking 1985 Bianchi for sale near me. It's a 47 cm...which is my size (give or take...at least I'll be able to straddle it!)...and looks pretty nice. The listing is fairly sparse:
http://greensboro.craigslist.org/bik/224095476.html
From what is here, is it possible to tell if this is a good bike? Is it one I should get more info on and try to negotiate for, or is it one I should just pass up, for one reason or another?
Thanks for any insight!
Yeah, you'd need more info to evaluate this bike. But the weight makes me think that it's worth further investigation. You want to know the frame material. And you want more measurements to compare with your current bike to check the fit. Check the wheel size too.Quote:
Originally Posted by GLC1968