Neck....again. Sigh

[Catrin]

My OD tells me he isn't sure that I should be riding at all. He is fine with my other activities, as long as I don't do any over-head lifting, which I don't attempt any longer. I've nerve entrapment issues in my cervical spine (along with a lot of other things), and it presents in odd ways. He doesn't like even an upright riding position. I am just venting, sort of. I've this lovely full custom bike in the back room and there is a chance I may not get to ride her again. Well, surely SHORT rides would still work. Of course, last year I couldn't ride more than 20-40 minutes at a time because of this very thing.

When I think of all of the crazy, intense things I CAN do with no physical consequences I want to go waaaaaaaaa, why can't I ride? Then again, I CAN do an awful lot that many can't with a bad cervical spine so I really can't complain. Also, I was finally getting to where I want to start riding again when he tells me this. Haruumph.

[Helene2013]

That is just a bummer. So that would mean you can never really ride a bike?

I know mine will say no more running because of knees issues. I keep trying, and I keep hurting. So I've learned to listen (cheat once in a while on treadmill but no more long stretches, just tiny steps running to avoid pounding. I find workarounds that satisfy me, and his recommendations.

Good luck. It sure sucks when you like an activity.

[Crankin]

That is terrible, Catrin. Of course, if it causes pain, you shouldn't do it, but I hate it when someone stops riding.
Are there any other options for second opinions?

[Catrin]

I've had several second opinions over the last 2.5 years, expensive second opinions. It isn't just the consequences/damage from major whiplash, it also the arthritis and bulging disk, and...and. I've had multiple, expensive, courses of physical therapy, ART, and other treatments. Also some of my shoulder and arm problems are actually from my neck. It could be a LOT worse!

Really, it isn't any worse than it has been over the last 2 years. I think I am just becoming more realistic. It is ironic that most of the crazy, intense workouts I do don't appear to have any impact - other than overhead lifting or front squats and I've given those up as neither my shoulder nor neck approves. Really, since the whiplash injury on the mountain bike trail the longest bike ride I've been able to tolerate has, maybe, been as long as 60-80 minutes - and THAT has only happened a couple of times - generally more like 20-40 minutes.

Does this mean I won't do short bike rides? Nah, but it does mean that it won't be the focus of an outing. Thankfully I can still trail run, so perhaps from time to time I can take my bike and enjoy a little spin afterwards. I had just kept hoping that things would just go away and they aren't.

All of that being said, I can't complain about my mobility level, and I am the most fit I've ever been in my life! If I could afford to see my OD more often then things would improve more - as much as they CAN. He's had more effect than anyone.

I also know that there are TE members who have had far more profound neck and spine issues, and I greatly appreciate the support and tips that have come to me since my injury. This is a great community and that has never changed in the years I've been here!

[Wahine]

((((Catrin))))

Here's a little something from the practitioners perspective. It's always a very difficult discussion to have with a patient when you have to tell them something they love is not likely to be that good for them. Keep in mind that we are trained to always think about the worst case scenarios and to recommend the cautious course of action. It comes from having the fear of malpractice driven into us.

Here's my philosophy, I try to explicitly explain to my clients what the worst potential consequences for their actions could be and what I estimate the probability of those consequences are. Then we discuss what the more common results of their actions may be and what the outcome of those results would likely entail. Then I try to help them weigh the pros and cons with special consideration of quality of life.

For example, I had a pro kayaker that suffered a very bad low back disc buldge, he was told by his surgeon that he should never boat again. The reality was that the sitting position in the boat was considered a position of vulnerability and he could further injure his lumbar discs just through regular boating, but the probability of irreversible damage that would impact his function could be lowered dramatically by adjusting his position and by having him do regular exercise. There was however the possibility of very serious injury, for eg paralysis if he chose to run high waterfalls and landed the wrong way. The probability of that was low, but the consequences high. We talked things through extensively and he continues to be a river guide as his profession, but he no longer runs big waterfalls.

The moral of the story is that nothing is black and white and there is often some middle ground that is pretty safe even if it's pretty painful at times. Really it comes down to your own choices in what you can deal with and what isn't worth it in terms of quality of life. But you can only make that choice when you have all the information.

Meanwhile, have you thought about a recumbent?

[OakLeaf]

Aw, Catrin, that stinks. Hugs to you.

[Catrin]

Wahine - thanks for giving your perspective as a practitioner. I understand that he is looking at the worse case scenario, and there is a part of me that would like to set it aside (like that would never happen to me). However, there is a reason why I didn't have a ride in 2013 that was longer than 60 minutes, and there was only 1 that was THAT long Just too much pain and neurological symptoms afterwards. In 2012 the symptoms were worse, even though I was still trying to mountain bike that year.

I think part of my frustration is that I can do so many other things that would seem to be more difficult as far as body mechanics are concerned. I do still have to be cautious however, my OD found yesterday that what he thought was light tendinitis in my good shoulder was actually from nerve entrapment in my neck. As soon as he did some very light neck work, all of my "tendinitis" symptoms were gone and my arm/shoulder was suddenly stronger. It isn't the first time my neck has affected my shoulders, especially that one. I suspect that had something to do with the jumping loaded BB squats that we did 2 weeks ago...yes, yes, I know I shouldn't have done that There is a lot I CAN do, so I've no right to complain.

Someone else here has suggested before I might want to consider a recumbent. I will think about it, but their very low profile scares me. I might consider a recumbent trike, but I am afraid a new bike isn't in the cards for me this year.

Unsure why my OD seems to do so much better with my neck and shoulder than anyone else has been, and WHAT he does seems so...minimal in comparison. The other practitioners I've seen were just as qualified and, considering the list of letters by their names, may have been considered by some to be more qualified. The exercises he has given me are quite different, just a different approach. I wish I could see him more frequently but that is life. There is only so much improvement that can be expected anyway.

[ny biker]

What scares you about the recumbent? Not being seen?

[Catrin]

What scares you about the recumbent? Not being seen?

Bingo, not being seen - it seems a challenge to be seen on a "regular" bike....and they require a different kind of balance. That being said, a trike would settle that problem right off the bat - I really can't risk falling and re-snapping my neck. Of course, it wouldn't be as long of a fall as from a diamond frame

[OakLeaf]

If you're thinking about a 'bent, I'd definitely run it by your doctor first. You can't use your arms and legs as suspension like you do on an upright bike - meaning all the road shocks are transmitted through your spine - and it's exacerbated by the fact that they can't see the road well enough to avoid potholes and rough spots. 'Bent riders I know are pretty miserable on less-than-perfect roads.

As far as being seen, when I'm in the hooks but not a deep tuck on my Synapse, my head is level with my friend's on his Bachetta. I think the main difference as far as conspicuity is on an upright bike you use your clothes, on a 'bent you have to use the seat and/or any luggage.

Something to think about though.

[Catrin]

If you're thinking about a 'bent, I'd definitely run it by your doctor first. You can't use your arms and legs as suspension like you do on an upright bike - meaning all the road shocks are transmitted through your spine - and it's exacerbated by the fact that they can't see the road well enough to avoid potholes and rough spots. 'Bent riders I know are pretty miserable on less-than-perfect roads.

As far as being seen, when I'm in the hooks but not a deep tuck on my Synapse, my head is level with my friend's on his Bachetta. I think the main difference as far as conspicuity is on an upright bike you use your clothes, on a 'bent you have to use the seat and/or any luggage.

Something to think about though.

Thanks Oakleaf, that is very interesting. I don't know that I really want one, there is just something about that riding position that doesn't look fun to me - but of course that doesn't mean much. I didn't realize that about how the road shocks are transmitted, but that makes sense. Something to consider for sure, and as I said, if I DO decide to try it, it won't be this year. My little 20-40 minute rides in the park are certainly far less expensive...if short. I just need to determine if those short rides are doing me more damage than I know, given the consequences that follow most of those rides.

[smilingcat]

car drivers say that they didn't see you on a recumbent.

Standard question we (recumbent, trike, and velo rider) ask the driver is can they see the marking on the pavement. Answer is almost always yes. 'bends" are much higher off the pavement than the marking. I have a very colorful gaudy flag, streamer attached to a 6 foot pole. If you can't see it from a mile away, something is wrong with your eye. Velomobile is fully faired and almost always have suspension on all three wheels. They are normally painted in obnoxiously bright color. Some have flourescent flames painted on the side. Others have made it look like Jaws (shark) with added fins.

There are many trikes equipped with suspension on all three wheels. Many bends have rear suspension. On a long wheel base bends (front wheel is beyond your feet) the shock from the bump do not transfer all that much to your seat. Some even have springs in the seat beside the shocks for the rear wheel. Seat position is usually set back to about 40-50degrees from flat and your back rest is suspended so again less shock. Mine has a neck rest so my shoulder and neck is relaxed. Even on a rough road, my trike does not chatter my teeth or cause my glasses to slide down. And my trike has single suspension for the rear. I picked up a used one for $500 and had it shipped from Tx for about $80.00. It's an entry level because I wanted to see what it was like. Being seen is not a problem. I can also easily carry two or three full grocery bags. No worry about balance.

So your visibility isn't all that different than a regular bike. If you yahoo it and go around the corner way too fast, you can tip them over to the side.

[Catrin]

Very interesting Smilingcat! Very interesting. How hard is it to transport your trike? I didn't know they come with suspensions.

[smilingcat]

My trike is like a MAC truck. It's designed to handle a 400 pound person easily. So the frame is built extra heavy duty... It is also very long unlike a typical trike. Mine has to be broken down in order to fit in a car. All three wheels are 406 or 20" in diameter. If I want to go anywhere, I have to use my partner's pkup to haul my trike around. And its so heavy that I can't just lift it into the truck.

Terratrike, Catrike, ICE and Greenspeed will be much easier to fit in a car such as my Prius. Fold down the back seat in your car and you may have to take off the back wheel and fold down the back rest of the trike... really not much more than a regular bike. Check out their web site and watch some youtube videos. And don't be shocked by the price tag. You can find a lightly used trike for much cheaper price.

I think someone has a rack to transport a trike as well. here it is http://www.hitchrider.com/trikes.htm as an example. This is if you don't want to put your trike inside your car.

There may be a recumbent shop near you so search for it and go take a look.

[Fredwina]

Have you tried riding a trike? They are a blast,