Riding with a group - average speed?

[velo]

I know that when riding with a group, your average speed increases as a whole. I'm wondering at what point riding solo, you decide you can hang with a group. For example, if a B group has a posted average speed of 15 - 19mph, what would you feel comfortable averaging solo before you'd attempt this group? I know that there are certain skills required for group (tight group?) riding and the lower number is for earlier in the season vs. now. There would be some pacelining, I assume, and a little bit of friendly competition, particularly on "hills". Everything else being equal, including the route you know they ride... what are your thoughts? I hope I've phrased this question correctly. TIA!!

[marni]

it so depends on the group. I ride solo most of the time but find it hard to motivate myself to hit top speeds. I ride with a casual group on Sundays and we tend to hold it at 15 mph so that everyone ca hang to gether. We do share pulling into the inevitable Texas headwind, and warn each other about road stuff but we also ride in a loose line as well as in pairs. We average 30-40 miles without much stopping or taking any breaks.

Another group I ride with is smaller, there are usually only three or four of us. We ride 50-60miles and stop at least once, possibly twice depending on the ride, the weather etc. Again it is casual, we share pulls, ride in a line ad don't talk and then other times we ride in pairs. etc.

Both of these groups are primarily women although there are also a couple of husbands who join the Sunday ride every now and then. That alone may make a difference in the ature of the ride.

marni

[Jiffer]

Yes, there are many variations in group rides. If a group posts averages of 15-19, the higher pace may be the fastest they go on a flat. If there isn't much climbing, then maybe their slowest pace is around 15. Or maybe that pace variation (which is a pretty wide variation) may depend on which route they are doing that day.

The amount of climbing in the ride makes a big difference, too, and your climbing ability falls into place. Some groups have a "no drop policy", where they regroup from time to time for slower riders to catch up. My club typically regroups at the top of climbs. And this would mean that there could be quite a big variation in average pace if the faster riders are stopping to regroup with the slower riders. The faster riders will obviously have a faster over all pace. I have done a group ride with some climbing at a 14.6 average pace (the first time I did it), and over 17 other times as I got faster . . . still with a group.

Sometimes group rides can break down into mini groups. A faster group may separate from a secondary or even third group depending on the size of the group and variations in ability. Sometimes there are stronger riders who are either designated or take it upon themselves to ride with the slower riders to make sure they don't get dropped and know where to go.

If you are worried about your ability to hang with a group, you should contact them and ask more questions. Let them know what kind of pace you ride on different kinds of terrain, find out if they have a no drop policy, what the best ride options they have for newer riders are, etc.

It's also a good idea if at least a few people in the group know you are new to group riding. In my experience, cyclists are often very good about helping out the newer people, to make sure they learn how to properly draft, call out debris in the road, know various hand signals, etc.

As for drafting, always make sure you have your fingers touching your brake levers, keep your eyes on the tire in front of you if you are particularly close, anticipate the person in front of you slowing suddenly, anticipate when they may be stopping by being aware of a signal ahead, etc. Be prepared to quickly move left or right if you need to and ready to call out or motion to people behind that you are slowing or stopping.

As for what pace you should be able to ride alone in order to keep up with a group, I'd suggest maybe a mile or two slower than whatever the advertised group pace is. There are two reasons you ride faster in a group. One is drafting, if you actually draft properly. You have to be relatively close for it to make a real difference. However, if you are surrounded by several riders. that creates an even better draft. The second thing is more mental. You are inspired to ride faster with a group. There's a thrill to being able to keep up with other people who are faster than you.

Riding with others teaches you a lot about technique and skill, which also makes you a faster rider. Pay attention to when they shift, how fast their cadence is, etc.

I think the best advice at the moment is to contact someone in the group you are considering riding with and get their take on if you'll be fine on one of their rides by letting them know a little bit about your ability, asking questions, etc.

Go luck!

[indysteel]

I second what Muirenn said. If you otherwise know the route, show up and see what happens. If they do ride in a paceline, then you might want to stay to the rear anyway and just watch how the group functions. If you can't keep up, you can't keep up. No sweat. Just make sure you know how to get back to your car.

FWIW, I did a local club training ride weekly for a few years. The group was well used to new riders (either new in general or new to the group) not keeping up at first. Those that stuck with it soon could and showed significant gains in their speed over time. We did ride in a paceline, and it is a skill that involves some risk. If this is a paceline group, I would keep some extra distance between you and the other riders. If you do a search here or on roadbikereview's site, you will find some past threads on it with some important pointers for paceline riding.

I grew a bit weary ulimately of it. Some groups are just better than others, and I preferred ultimately to ride with friends. We still kept up a decent pace and rode in a paceline, but it was more relaxed.

[Becky]

The local club here uses rolling averages, meaning the average speed calculated by the cyclocomputer. I would expect that an average of 15 mph means quite a bit of riding in the high teens. It's been awhile, but the group ride I was doing had a 17 mph average and routinely rolled at 22+ mph.

I recommend contacting the ride leader and asking for clarification.

[velo]

Thanks for all of the replies and helping me think this through a little more. I probably am overthinking it, but that is my personality to do so. I wasn't able to reach the contact for the ride... not sure if he's moved away or what, but my email bounced and the listed person was not at the number I called. I do know another fellow who rides with the group and when I've asked him, he just says, "Yeah, it's a fast ride." I do not know him well, and he is difficult to talk to.

It has been some years, but I figure pacelining and group riding will come back pretty quickly. Racing (especially crits, which is what I raced) is different that group non-competitive pacelining. However, I trained with a team for a few seasons, which involved a lot of friendly close riding. Indy, your suggestions make a lot of sense... just hanging back and seeing may not be a bad idea. However, the season is nearly at a close, so I could wait until next year, but it was kind of a goal I had. I had said that when I could consistently have a rolling average of 18, I'd try the group ride. Then I started second guessing myself and coming up with reasons to not do it. I'm not great on the few "hills" we have around here (less than 5% grade and very, very short) because I still have about 20lbs. to lose and on the flats, no wind, I can maintain 20-21*, in my drops, for miles, but not much more than that. I FEEL like I could be ready and would like to challenge myself in this way, but not sure. Thanks again for all of the words of advice and thoughts. You gals are great for these kinds of things. I appreciate it.
*ETA - looking at my logs, I'd say this is only for my strongest days. I can't say that's normal. I do take note of "look down" speeds in flats, and I'd say they are more consistently in the 18's and 19's, depending on wind. These would be rides 30 miles or less, too.

[indysteel]

FWIW, when I could consistently maintain an 18 mph solo, I could more or less hang with a training ride that averaged 22-23 mph over a 24 mile route. It was tough at times, as keeping up wasn't just about pace. Knowing how to position myself within the pack and having the nerve to take corners faster than I would on my own also played a part. But given your crit experience, I'd say you'll do fine. Just be forewarned that some groups have no business riding as fast or as aggressively as they do. They act like they're a pro peloton but lack the skill needed. There have been some nasty accidents at least in Indy as a result. That, ultimately, is what more or less drove me away.

[tulip]

You don't have to be perfect to ride your bike. Just go ride and enjoy yourself, already! I seriously doubt that the other riders will really pay that much attention to you. If you get dropped, so what? Keep at it, ride, you'll get stronger. But I suspect you know that already.

[velo]

I don't know the nature of these riders at all, so I don't know if they are cocky young daredevils or older sensible strong riders or some mixture in between. That is something I had not thought of and would make all the difference in the world to me. I don't need any injuries. Crit racing is intense and risky... I no longer want anything that even resembles that!

I do know that this one fellow I talked to said that they will never let someone be dropped. I made the comment that I knew the roads and wouldn't want anyone to hang back just for me. Part of being hesitant to ride with them is that if I can't keep up, I don't want anyone to miss a good ride because they are pulling me along. If I could make it clear to them that I know all the roads around here and wouldn't get lost, perhaps I would feel less nervous. It's late in the season here in corn country and we're starting to get to the part of the year where every great, long ride counts because they are numbered as the days get shorter and colder soon.

I want to ride with this group because I think it will make me a stronger rider. That's it in a nutshell. I had a goal and that's part of it. Vainly, I also think more intense rides, which I'm not doing on my own, will help me lose this last bit of weight and I'd love to meet that goal, too. I ride solo so much, I also would like some company sometimes.

[indysteel]

I totally agree that riding in a group like that will totally make you stronger. When I stopped going, my average speed plummeted. I was pretty strong there for a while. I ride mostly with my relatively new husband now and we just don't push each other the same way.

As for someone hanging back with you if you fall off, don't worry about. IME, the guys love to be chivalrous and there's always somebody looking for a valid excuse to take it easy, especially this time of year when people are starting to burn out. So don't feel guilty if someone rides in with you.

[velo]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone again. I gave it a go. Did fine, but did not take my pulls and hung back or stayed mid-pack. Didn't make any major mistakes and enjoyed the ride. I did get dropped on one hill (remember, where I live it's flat, so "hill" is relative), but one of the guys hung back and pulled me back to the group. I will say that I'm fine "hanging" with them, and can hold my own on the flats, but I'm not sure if I'm up to snuff to take my turn at the front. All together it was kinda fun and I met another female cyclist (she is STRONG!!), but I'm not sure if it's something I'll do again this season. Their average is above the stated average. I will say that I do enjoy my solitude when riding solo and not having to worry so much about technicalities, but it was nice to not be alone. Anyway, thanks for encouraging me give it a go. I'd say it was definitely worth it!

[Cynedra]

That is wonderful that the ride turned out so good for you. Bravo!

[TigerMom]

Group rides get me going faster than I would ride by myself because I worry about being left behind or dragging the group too slow. So, the group rides have definitely got me to push harder at biking, even when I train by myself. I would encourage you to keep going to the group rides to push yourself since you sound like you weren't behind at all except for one hill. Also, I try to get towards the front of the group BEFORE going up the hill. Even if everyone passes you, at least you are LESS far behind than if you start going up hill at the very back of the group.
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