Selle Italia Diva

[Catrin]

My LBS is a Selle Italia test center - they have several different types of saddle that they test. Pretty sweet deal, if you don't purchase the saddle then you get your full deposit back - and they give you a couple of weeks in which to try the demo out

The discomfort from my Brooks is just getting worse, and worse the more miles I put on it. Everything we try, tilting the saddle, chamois creams, focusing on posture, my girly bits just plain do not like that saddle and I need one for long distance riding. I do not think this is a "breaking in" issue.

My fitter suggested that the Diva might be a good experiment - what he did not know was that I was calling to check to if this was available for testing. It may still be a week or two - all of the demo saddles are out being tested (and if you do purchase it then you keep the demo until the new one arrives).

It seems a good number of women here do use this saddle. Was there a breaking in period? Did you try the Diva full cutout version (Gel Flow) with the original? I am going to try Knotted's cutout test...

[Grits]

I have the Lady Diva Gel. It is the only saddle I've tried that the cutout works for me, unfortunately, it is also too pear shaped and chafes on long rides. I'm still using it, though, because at least it is comfortable up to about 40 miles.

[Catrin]

I assume that it is less of a pear shape than the Brooks? It looks like it to me, but I have a hard time telling the difference. I am doing a brevet in October so I need to settle this soon - I hope...

Would you say it is more of a pear shape than a Bontrager saddle? A photo would help here, when I get home tonight will post something. I have had few issues with my Bontrager saddle (came with Trek 7.6) - though not discomfort free right now it feels better than my Brooks - and I am wondering if I just need more of a T-shape. It is either that, or I need a cut-out, or both...

[Catrin]

I am likely over-thinking again, but am trying to figure out what it is that is causing my problems with the Brooks, while I have significantly fewer problems with the seemingly universally hated Bontrager stock saddle on my Trek. If I can figure out what is working with the Bontrager saddle, then I hope that it will make the search for a new saddle quicker and more productive. I really like what I see/hear of the Diva. If I can find those elements that work in a better quality saddle - that should help with long-distance riding.

I have problems "seeing" the difference between pear and t-shaped saddles. So here are a couple of photos, top/profile of my Trek's stock saddle, and what I could find of the Diva. Found some great top/side views of the Diva but they were disabled from downloading. You can see the Diva images here, though I was able to link to a stock image from Bikeman to save a little time.

To my eye, they are both T-shaped - but is this correct? There does seem a difference in degree, but I can't decide what that difference is. They both do have a cutout as well - which I do think is needed. Of course, there is also the Diva with the full cutout...

[Catrin]

I just revisited the Pear-vs-T thread and noted Knotted's comment that the Diva is a classic pear shape - I said I can't see the difference. I guess I was right - defective eyes I think

I am probably over-thinking again - I do that...

I don't know how one can find a Selle Italia test center - this one just happens to be my usual LBS. There is no way I could risk trying this saddle if it wasn't...they also test Fizik, WTB, and another saddle brand that I can't remember. I can ask them if there might be a listing somewhere.

[Owlie]

Hm, the Diva was on my list of things to try. I like the cutout, but not the pear shape of it. Maybe. I haven't noticed chafing from my saddle, but haven't done long enough rides with my new adjustments to judge. I'll find out eventually.

[Catrin]

Hm, the Diva was on my list of things to try. I like the cutout, but not the pear shape of it. Maybe. I haven't noticed chafing from my saddle, but haven't done long enough rides with my new adjustments to judge. I'll find out eventually.

This really does seem to be more of an art than a science, for sure. It would be great if it really worked this way:

A. Take certain measurements

B. Check the "saddle chart" that provides choices based on measurements and riding style

C. Never have to worry about the saddle again because it fits perfectly

Pity it doesn't work that way, it would be nice.

Right now I think that the lack of a cutout is what is causing my saddle pain/discomfort. Even before the actual pain begins I am quite aware of my soft tissues and am frequently trying to adjust my position. There isn't any chafing to the side or anything like that.

I am looking forward to this experiment - if it works then the expense will be worth it. If it doesn't, I get my full deposit back and try other saddles. A win-win proposition

Lots of riding planned for this weekend - so will likely switch back and forth between my bikes for a little relief. I am far more comfy on the LHT than the Trek, even with the saddle issues...

[KnottedYet]

I just revisited the Pear-vs-T thread and noted Knotted's comment that the Diva is a classic pear shape -

I didn't say that.
I didn't say anything about the Diva.


If your soft tissues are getting pressure from the very start (the sort of "I gotta shift around, getting smooshed" feeling you'd get doing the cut-out test) then yeah, you certainly sound like you need a cut-out.

How much time did you spend working the nose of your Brooks with your hand? As the butt leather softens and sags a little, the nose leather might be pressing upward. Soft tissues don't soften leather like sit bones do, so I definitely have to use my hands and work the nose leather on all my Brooks. (about an hour, while watching something interesting on TV)

Bear in mind that cut-out saddles have to be a bit wider at the transition and the over-all nose (take a look at the Terry FLX picture Snap posted) to accommodate the cut-out. Don't give up if the first cut-out you try doesn't feel right, cut-outs come in a variety of shapes! Try more!

And don't get hung up on pear vs. T. There's nothing magical about it. One person's T is another person's pear, they are just gradations. Some women adore pear shaped saddles, some women chafe like heck on them. Once you've ridden enough saddles to get a feel for the kind of shape you like, you keep your eye out for that shape.

For example: if I know I like narrow toe-boxes in my shoes, I'm gonna steer clear of wide toe boxes like Keens and Birkenstocks and Joseph Siebels. Yet, someone who likes Birkenstocks for their wide toe boxes might find Joseph Siebels to be too narrow. The very same shoes that I might find to be too wide. It's all relative.

By the same token, Trek420 can ride thousands of miles on her Selle Italia LDY, whose gradual transition chafed the bejeebers out of me within about 4 miles and I had to give up the ride. Perfect for her, too pear-shaped for me.

(oh, and since your saddle is an "S" with the short nose, what are the chances that the metal hardware of the nose is too close to your soft tissues so that you are wolloping yourself on the leather-covered metal rather than contacting the suspended leather?)

[Catrin]

I didn't say that.

I am sorry about that, my mistake. You were referring to the Terry, not the Diva. So many saddles that my eyes got crossed

[Trek420]

My commuter has an older model of the Diva. My road bike sports an Italia. Right now both are my favorite saddles.

[indysteel]

I'm also not sure I'd get too hung up on figuring out what works for you with the Bontrager saddle. Depending on how your weight is distributed on each bike, the saddle is supporting your weight somewhat differently. I'd venture a guess that you sit slightly more upright on your Trek, which puts less pressure on your soft tissue. If you put the Bontrager saddle on your Surly, it could feel very different to you.

[Grits]

I can't really see the difference between pear and T shaped saddles either, but I am going by what others have said, and the fact that it is chafing me. I am so sick of trying out saddles!

[Catrin]

Knotted- thanks for your advice - one thing is sure- when I look down I sure don't see much of the nose of my saddle. I DID redo your cutout test last night and was aware of my soft tissues. Not bad but was aware that bits were touching the wooden chair. When I come in from my ride tonight will work the leather on the nose with my hands to see if that makes a difference on my 30 mile ride tomorrow.

My original fitter recommended the B17S and I didn't know enough at the time to investigate further. A valuable lesson learned.

Trek420 - thanks for your experience with the Diva. If the experiment doesn't work for me I will likely try the Terry Butterfly. It looks like it will be about a week before I can try the Diva as all the demos are out.

Indysteel - good point about my position. I can't say which bike has the most upright position for me - the geometry is so different!

Grits- I hear you! It sounds like your saddle problem has lasted longer than mine though, hope you find a solution soon! I had so many fit problems with the bike that I couldn't ride it long enough to notice a saddle problem...

[Catrin]

...
(oh, and since your saddle is an "S" with the short nose, what are the chances that the metal hardware of the nose is too close to your soft tissues so that you are wolloping yourself on the leather-covered metal rather than contacting the suspended leather?)

I think this is a large part of the problem - and the lack of a cutout is the rest. My demo SI Diva Gel Flow (full cutout) is due to arrive Thursday and Friday it goes on my bike. Hopefully this will fix the problem, but we will see. Thanks again!