Need help from Brooks owners, please.

[SLash]

I have a B-17s, aged leather that I recently purchased and put on my Jamis Aurora. Today was the longest ride I've done on it, and only my 3rd ride. I rode for a little over an hour/15 miles, so a reasonable time in the saddle.

The good:

1. Overall my sitbones are happier in that they are more supported.

The not so good:

1. My soft tissue isn't happy, pain isn't excrutiating, more discomfort than actual pain, however I 'm sure that will come as I do longer rides . It was worse but reduced tension in saddle, lowered nose slightly, prior to todays ride. Both these adjustments did help.

2. The biggest issue however is the pain in my shoulders and neck. It's related to the saddle because it was not an issue at all prior to the Brooks. I feel like my reach to the handlebar has increased but I very carefully marked the saddle when I put it on (placing it where the other was, adjusting for the shorter length of the Brooks so may be off some. Could be the tipped nose but it is nearly level so I don't think it's that.

3. I couldn't comfortably ride on the hoods or drops because of the soft tissue pain on the saddle and because of the reach discomfort (don't know how to describe it any better).

I know Brooks need to be broken in so I am wondering will the issues I mentioned resolve in time? I wonder because most of what breaking in does affect the sit bones and of all the points of contact on the saddle that one is the most pain free.

I think I should move my saddle slightly closer to h/bar, what do you all think?

Any other help/advice would be appreciated.

Susan

[OakLeaf]

I can't give you any specifics - I don't even ride a Brooks - but I can tell you that I've ridden three saddles on my current bike, and every change has completely changed the way I fit/sit on the bike - even though tilt, height at the top of the saddle and nominal fore/aft placement didn't change. Stem changes, moving the hoods around, tilting the bars, the whole shebang - even from the Specialized Lithia to the nearly identical but firmer Jett.

If your sitbones, your knees and your lower legs are happy, I wouldn't change the fore/aft position of the saddle. What that does is change the relationship of your knees to the pedals. If you want to adjust the reach, put on a shorter stem (or, counterintuitively, sometimes a longer stem can take pressure off your shoulders as well).

[SLash]

What you say makes sense, but I have the shortest stem on it now (90mm). On the Jamis they have a "easy height adjustment" stem that is specific to the bike so I can't just change the stem by itself, interesting about going w/longer stem possibly, but I think the problem if stem related is length. I felt too stretched out.

Maybe I should lower the saddle a bit more/raise the h/bar. The Brooks is quite a bit higher than the stock saddle of the Jamis so I may still be high. I may reduce the tension a little bit more too.

Thanks OakLeaf, I appreciate the suggestions.

[Thorn]

When you put the Brooks on your bike, how did you determine your position was the same? I ask only because Brooks saddles tend to be taller and the rails tend to be shorter. So, you want to have measured from you to the bike (e.g., bend in the knee and knee to pedal spindle distance), not saddle to bike. I had to go from a straight seat post to an offset seat post when I put in the Brooks to get the same position on the bike.

As for the bits, did you try the "cutout test" that KnottedYet wrote? If so, did you pass or fail? If your saddle position and overall fit is not right, that alone could cause the pressure, so you want to resolve that before anything else. Be careful tipping the saddle down as you can end up with too much pressure on the hands and arms (hm....as you've stated).

You don't want to hear this, but I cut a hole in my Brooks (well, actually, Selle Anatomica cut the hole in for me). Without it, I just couldn't get comfortable. If your sit bones are supported on the B-17 you might just want to try out a Selle Anatomica to see if it resolves the pressure in the sensitive areas.

But, first, can you get someone to help you with that fit?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

The "S" models of Brooks saddles are shorter than the non-S models. Their rails are about 1 1/2" shorter as well. When i had a B17S I found I could not shove the saddle far back enough to feel balanced on my bike. It caused me to feel like I was falling forward with my weight, and this put too much weight on my hands and arms. More weight on your hands could mean shoulder discomfort. For me, it wasn't so much that I couldn't reach the handlebars, it was that there was too much weight coming down on my hands to hold myself up. I felt like I was holding myself up with my hands.

All this sounds familiar to me, and when I exchanged my B17S for a 'men's' B17, I was SO relieved to be able to slide the saddle back another 1.5". This made all the diff in the world to my sense of weight balance. It shifted my center of gravity back and my weight off my hands.

The main diff I found between the B17S and the B17 was not so much the shape of the saddle, or even its shortness/longness....it was the length of the rails and how that effected my being able to position the saddle further back.

I know it seems counter-intuitive to put your saddle further back if you think you are having a reach problem, but...
get on the floor, evenly on on your hands and knees. See how much weight is on your hands? Now, shift your butt backwards while keeping all hands and knees in the same spot- see how there is now less weight going onto your hands? Yet you have not brought your hands in closer to you. This is what happens when you shift your saddle a bit further back. It changes your center of gravity.

In addition to getting weight off your hands, shifting your weight back will also put less weight on your frontal 'girl parts'. Having more weight on your sitbones will help with soft tissue pain. In the meantime, be sure you are using a lube on your tender parts, or at least some creamy hypo-allergenic hand lotion- this does help on long rides, I find.
Hope this provides some further possibilities to think about.

[OakLeaf]

Lisa, that's a great illustration!

Another thing to remember is that stems come not only in different lengths, but in different rises. A longer stem with a steeper rise can shorten the distance to the handlebars and give you a more upright riding position.

[SLash]

Thorn: I'll have to look up KnottedYet's "cutout test" and see, I've never heard of it but I'll do a search. You're right, I can't bear to think about cutting a hole in my Brooks! I've tried out a variety of saddles over the years but never a Selle Anatomica. I'm committed to Brooks for this bike (aethetics over function/comfort, hopefully just for the time being though ). I may look at that saddle for my Scott though.

Because my sitbones seem supported I'm hopeful the Brooks will work once I get the fit dialed in. I bought the bike from a lbs and will be taking the bike in for a check next week so they can tweak my fit.

Lisa: I went back and forth between the s and regular. Initially I planned to order the "regular" because in my research here I read about the issue of not being able to slide back enough because of the shorter rails. After a ridiculous amount of weighing the pros and cons, I went with the S because of the width difference between the two and felt like my sitbones needed that little extra that the S gives). I think in terms of that alone the S is a better fit for me than the regular. However, if this one doesn't work for me my plan is to return and try the B17 regular.

You've both brought up a lot of good points and I plan to ride today and experiment. I really think the saddle is too high and that will be the first thing I change. My husband rode behind me and thought I seemed to be reaching more in the bottom of my pedal stroke. It felt like it to me so I'll start there.

I've gotta go to the dentist now but, thanks very much for the feedback - I really appreciate it!!

Susan