Adventures in Foreign Finance

[ZenSojourner]

For the first time in months I went out today to do something fun just for me. (I care for my elderly father and haven't had a break in nearly a year).

Pulled out my debit card and much to my surprise it was declined. I hadn't used it since November and last I checked (along about February) there was still several hundred dollars in there.

Turns out that starting in early March, someone in New Delhi started emptying out my account by making multiple small charges on it. In a matter of days they had made off with $440 (about Rs 22,000, quite a tidy sum in India).

Since I had the card with me at all times, since I never write numbers like that down, and since it had been months since I'd ever used it and I'd only ever used it online 2 or three times about 6 months ago (mostly at Amazon), it never occurred to me that anything untoward might be going on with my account. Normally I check it about the end of every month, but I missed checking it in March because both my dad and I had been very ill about that time.

Needless to say I'm more than a little miffed at the CC company. They should have questioned sudden activity, DAILY activity, that was emptying the account (they got it all in about a week or less) IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY.

But this account isn't something I set up for myself, the school I attend forces all students to use this debit account through this company as a student ID. All your financial aid money is deposited into this debit account at the beginning of the semester. And the debit company makes it ridiculously hard to get your money out. If you opt out, the school makes you wait weeks longer to get your disbursement. The reason, of course, is that the school is getting a kickback from the financial institution they've got this set up through. There are a SCAD of fees associated with using the cards, so they're a very very bad deal for students.

Furthermore, on more than one occasion I've had mysterious charges show up on my account with names I don't recognize, and the CC company tells me they can't tell me the name of the store where those charges were made. I've got a charge on there from November to some "Maple Company Limited" or something and they actually told me to Google it to find out where it came from!!! The thing is that sometimes a shop will have be incorporated under a different name than the name of the store - which on other cards I've had shows up as both the incorporation, and either the shop name or an address and phone number so I at least know who I'm dealing with. Not these guys, you are SOL.

Hmmmm, I may just have become a rebel WITH a cause.

[Mr. Bloom]

A couple months ago, I had a new top of the line Dell delivered to the front door. $1,700. Ironically, a new business one was delivered to my office that day for setup, so I assumed it had been accidentally shipped to the house for some reason.

The next day, I figured out that this was not the business computer I called Dell and explained that I didn't order the computer...BUT, it was charged to the credit card that I keep in the saddle pack on my BIKE!

Dell explained that they were sorry that I didn't like the computer and offered me a 10% discount to keep it! I'm SORRY, you're offering me a discount on something I didn't buy!

Two months later, everything is finally sorted out, but I still don't know who ordered a computer, delivered to my house, using a credit card hidden on my bike!

[SadieKate]

Two months later, everything is finally sorted out, but I still don't know who ordered a computer, delivered to my house, using a credit card hidden on my bike!

They don't need access to the credit card itself. A couple weeks ago someone in Florida had a nice shopping spree on one of my cards - used my number but a different name. Eagle-eyed Capital One shut them down immediately.

[ZenSojourner]

I can't figure out how they would have gotten the number. I almost never use the card, hasn't been used in 6 months. I usually use it as an ATM card, those receipts don't have the card # on them, and the company said any statements they might have mailed wouldn't have had the card # on them either. It has been in my possession at all times.

[Irulan]

obviously they have a security problem. I'd quit dealing with the dweebs that answer the phone and start looking higher up, plus cancelling the account. I'm not sure what regulatory agencies handle that kind of stuff, wish I knew. They can get numbers by hacking databases; by employees selling databases; random generation...


I read something kind of funny the other day about guys who buy and sell credit card numbers on the black market. I guess they've saturated their own market now.

[shootingstar]

There was a situation here in Canada where the thieves attached a device on the underside of the ATM machine somewhere which could read the client card numbers, etc. It was with one of the major established banks.

You need to pursue this theft problem as far as one can with screen printouts of the illegal withdrawals, etc. Otherwise how would it stop for your account?

Since you are in the U.S., I am not familiar with the different consumer financial service organizations and how they are structured/regulated. Here in Canada each of the major banks do have an internal ombudsman, also a federal government organization that regulates our banks here (which may explain why Canada hasn't crashed as badly in the mortgage credit fiasco), plus a 2nd different federal organization that is aimed at Canadian consumers to educate the public and provide direction on online financial frauds, etc.

[laura*]

Over on BikeForums.net there are a bunch of threads accusing Bike Nashbar of leaking credit card numbers. Did you order any bike stuff from there recently?

[ZenSojourner]

Nope, not in 3 years, and never with that card.

It's weird.

[IvonaDestroi]

Something similar happened to me, except they used my card number in my immediate vicinity so it was really hard to differentiate between my charges and theirs. (Fast food places, grocery stores, etc...)

They used tiny amounts at a time and over a 6 month period they maybe took a hundred out total. Finnally they spent $300 at a grocery store an hour drive from here and that tipped off the bank. It was only then I discovered all the fast food charges and public transit tickets they had been purchasing.

I had my card and have no idea how they got my number. The bank customer service rep said they were sliding a card to use it, and they must have gotten my number somehow and made a fake one (she said it was easy to do!)

Of course I have Bank of America, which steals money from me constantly. They said they would re-imburse me temporarily, and they did. Then, 6 months later they took the "temporary" money out of my account permanantly and with no explanation. I was told to mail them a letter (?). I did and they never responded. This goes right up among many other ways this bank has scammed me out of my money (they have a security guarentee for these things).

Other times they did not make my deposits available on purpose, without informing me, and charged me multiple overdrafts. Once a cashier stole $100 from me (a cash deposit) and it tooks 6 months of hassle and a great many hours on hold on the phone and multiple trips to the bank to get it back. In fact, every time I made a $2500 student loan deposit, $300 of it always went in to one fee or another that they came up with... they have probably stolen a couple grand from me over the 5 years I've had that account

[malaholic]

Zen, that's terrible! Is the card company holding you responsible for the charges or is there anything you can do to recover some of the stolen funds? It doesn't sound as though they are being very helpful to you at all.

If you've only used the card online at Amazon, it's highly unlikely that they'd have leaked it or have had their customer information hacked. However, if your computer somehow got infected with a keylogger or similar spyware, it's possible that some third party could have stolen the number undetected while you typed it in. I'd check to make sure your computer is clean before typing a CC #, or any other sensitive information.

Ivona, a similar thing happened to me, only luckily Discover triggered the fraud alert much sooner. My # was stolen while I was visiting NYC. The only time the card was out of my sight was when I used it to pay for a T-shirt in one store, and dinner in a restaurant, so apparently one of the workers must've had a side gig in identity theft.. The cc fraud person I spoke to said it's really common and that some of them have little reader devices they can hide in their palms, and it scans all the information which they then use to make duplicate cards later.

It's depressing how many crooks & scammers are out there. I know very few people who haven't gotten their card # stolen at one time or another.

[ilima]

Ugh. I'm sorry. I've had two cards hacked--a credit credit and my debit card attached directly to my checking account--in the last month.

My bank was more than happy to let the thieves empty out my account and then declare I had insufficient funds for a charge from a week before that had been approved. One of the orders was to Dell, who realized it was fraudulent and canceled it before shipping.

When I was at the bank yesterday they said that they'd have to let another $500 fraudulent charge still processing be taken from my account and then credit me late because 'it's automatic' and they can't decline it. BS--They were more than happy to not pay my optometrist's charge when it officially came through! That's a logical inconsistency!! Something's rotten at my bank. [Sorry! Can you tell I'm pissed at my bank?]

As soon as money shows up in your debit account, you might transfer it to an account like and ING orange checking account.

I'd also complain loudly to your school. Find out if others are having the same issues (I bet they are) and demand that the school take responsibility for playing fast and loose with your information.

[Mr. Bloom]

I can't figure out how they would have gotten the number.

About the time this happened to each of us, there was a widescale hack of one of the major processors...I think their name was Heartland???...

I had not used the particular card for months, so the only explanation to me is one of the processors or merchants. Merchant's terminals can be hacked if they don't use the mandated security technology.

[ZenSojourner]

\In fact, every time I made a $2500 student loan deposit, $300 of it always went in to one fee or another that they came up with... they have probably stolen a couple grand from me over the 5 years I've had that account

Ivona, get a different bank. Try a credit union. There are banks out there that will nickel and dime you to death, like the one you've got, and there are banks that have no-fee options. Get an account with no fees. There's no excuse for that.

I wouldn't be dealing with these a**holes except the school forces me to.

[Blueberry]

ZenS-

That sucks

Try going to your school if you can't get relief from the debit card company.

Check you account agreement - usually you have a right to dispute the charges. I had my credit card company refuse to tell me who charges were from, and I disputed them since I didn't recognize them. Some were legit, and some weren't. However, it was more work for the company.

A couple of years ago, someone made a duplicate copy of my card and went shopping in NYC. They did 100 in groceries (to see if the card worked) and then 2000 at the Apple store. Thankfully, my card company caught it.

Responsible use of credit cards is far preferable to debit cards, as they have more protections for fraud usually. Plus, it's the bank's money that's missing, not the money you need to pay your bills. I understand that wasn't an option here because of school, but generally....

Good luck!

CA

[Biciclista]

bummer Zen
i hope you get it all sorted out soon.

i love my credit union~!!