Passing out BUT not from pain when therapist moves my left arm a certain way.

[TrekJeni]

What I thought was a lingering shoulder injury from last cross season could be something a heck of a lot more.

So, I finally decided to see someone about the nagging ache in my shoulder after talking with my general practitioner last week. I had some flex comp money to burn so why not? I wasn’t ten minutes into tonight’s appointment when the room started to go black (and it wasn’t a power outage). At that time, the therapist was standing behind me and had her right hand massaging my left shoulder muscles while her left hand was moving my left arm across my body. We waited until I felt better (about a minute) and resumed the evaluation. Same thing. I got extremely hot (like it was 4000 degrees), I couldn’t hear and everything went black. This time I officially “checked out”. Scared the crap out of her!

Tried to replicate the situation with my right arm and couldn’t. Just for the heck of it, I made her do my left arm again. Whammo!
So needless to say, she wanted me to go to the ER, pronto. I talked her out of it with the promise I’d call my general practitioner.

I was able to get a hold of my G.P. after hours and had to promise him that I would go to the E.R. if it happened again. Evidently he was concerned enough to ask me to come in at 9am.

Both the therapist and my regular doctor think my passing out is related to a loss of blood to the brain when my arm is in a particular position.

Great… I’m sure this appointment tomorrow will be the first of many.

While there is some discomfort while she was manipulating my shoulder, there is absolutly no pain. Why was my body shutting down every time?

Yes, I had eaten, yes I was hydrated, No I'm not pregnant, and no it doesn't do it with my right arm, only my left.

Googling does no good. Guess I'll have to find out what he says tomorrow. I've got racing to do at the USGP this weekend so I'll kick him if he tells me I can't race! Only thing worse than not going to a race is watching from the sidelines.


Jeni –
Hey, want to see my new trick?

[pardes]

What I thought was a lingering shoulder injury from last cross season could be something a heck of a lot more.

Wow, that IS bizarre. I wonder if it's possible that for some reason when your one arm is moved, it pinches the carotid artery which makes you faint? Your original shoulder injury could have the muscles inflamed and enlarged enough to allow the pressure on the carotid.

Good luck with the docs. Hopefully it's an injury-related phenomonon and once that's healed everything will be fine.

Okay, this will sound like your mother talking...."Are you sure you want to ride in a race given the possibility of fainting?????"

[TahoeDirtGirl]

Wow. Just curious, was it painful when they touch it? I know there have been times I wanted to pass out when I was at PT for my tendonitis, but just to konk out like that sounds like something is get cut off somewhere.

And I don't think you'll be racing....even I'm not that crazy~ you could konk out and really do some damage.

[bmccasland]

Jeri,
No I don't want to see your new trick. I'll take your word for it. More importantly, what did the Doctor say???

I'll join in, that unless your race is a foot one, it probably isn't a good idea. The hands on the handlebars are connected to an unhappy shoulder. That position may not produce the black-out effect, but it isn't at rest either. Seems to me that aggravating an unhappy shoulder isn't *a good thing*.

Hope you get some answers today, and your shoulder gets more cooperative.

[SouthernBelle]

I used to pass out all the time. I had tons of tests, glucose tolerance, wearing one of those portable heart monitors...

Never got a diagnosis. But I now have an opinion. I was thin and in good condition with rather low BP. I think if my BP dropped, I dropped with it. This is something that is easy to check. I wonder if the massage relaxes you so much your BP drops.

[beccaB]

I have rotator cuff impingement in both shoulders, a small tear and tendonitis, and I get pretty dizzy if I keep my arms raised to do a task for any extended amount of time, such as changing a light bulb on in a ceiling fixture. Good luck, and I hope it's nothing serious for you.

[TrekJeni]

I used to pass out all the time. I had tons of tests, glucose tolerance, wearing one of those portable heart monitors...

Never got a diagnosis. But I now have an opinion. I was thin and in good condition with rather low BP. I think if my BP dropped, I dropped with it. This is something that is easy to check. I wonder if the massage relaxes you so much your BP drops.

My doctor is leaning towards your opinion. I've never had any massages before and he's thinking that the massage on a slightly aggravated shoulder coupled with my already athletically low heart rate and BP it triggers the vagal response and shuts me down.

My doctor and I have a great relationship. I had just seen him last week for my 6 month check up and everything was good. We even talked about PT for my shoulder. On a scale of 1 - 10 for pain, it's never above a 1.5; it's just "there". He listened to my vitals again and then did an EKG. Everything's perfect. Not that he was surprised.

He laughed and told me that his son - a cross country runner - in tip top condition has a vagal response to the word "shot" as in "let's go get a flu shot". His son has to sit down to avoid passing out.

Thanks for your concern everyone but again, this shoulder issue has nagged me since last December and I tried very hard to replicate the situation by myself last night sitting on the couch but no go. I'm sure I'll be okay during the race as my BP is no where close to being low when I'm racin! Besides, for the 2008 season, I've got more than 20 races (road, mtb and cross) under my belt and have never even felt close to passing out.

Every day the body marvels me more and more!

Streamers Jeni

On top of that - yesterday morning was our Wellness Check Up at work where they were offering free health screenings. My cholesterol, HDL, LDL, and all that other good stuff was right on track.

[bmccasland]

Jeni,
Glad to hear that your Doc isn't too concerned. I think most of us assumed it as a positional thing - as in put your arm in a certain position, and you hit the deck. Which got us collectively worried. A vaso-vagal reponse wasn't first on my mind.

Don't forget to let us know how the race goes!

[Tokie]

DH has "thoracic outlet syndrome"(diagnosed by his MD) - when he reaches up to the bar on the weight machine for the Lat pull down machine - he gets very dizzy and starts to black out. He can't do the lat pull down machine because of this! Is the position your arm was in similar to doing a lat pull down? Might be interesting to google thoracic outlet syndrome and see if it matches your situation. Tokie

[beccaB]

DH has "thoracic outlet syndrome"(diagnosed by his MD) - when he reaches up to the bar on the weight machine for the Lat pull down machine - he gets very dizzy and starts to black out. He can't do the lat pull down machine because of this! Is the position your arm was in similar to doing a lat pull down? Might be interesting to google thoracic outlet syndrome and see if it matches your situation. Tokie

That makes sense-I looked it up in wikipedia. My husband is a mechanic and has issues with having his arms extended over his head, but has to do it anyway. According to Wikipedia, musicians who play instruments get it too, but to a lesser extent. I've played the flute for more than 30 years!

[Mr. Bloom]

Now darnit! We just talked on Saturday and you mentioned nothing about this! Silver now works for a chiropractor and she'll mention it to him. It's a good thing that you're in such good shape or I'd be worried for you.

Did this affect your competition on Saturday? How'd you do?