Bike Fit Question - Leg Length Discrepancy

[melissam]

I read about the American Classic seatpost, which allows the head to be tipped slightly to either side to help correct leg-length inequalities without shimming shoe cleats. Since I have a ~1 inch leg length discrepancy that I've addressed in the past by shimming cleats, this approach is very interesting to me.

But then I got to thinking -- is it a good idea to address this issue by tilting your saddle laterally towards your short leg's side? While this may address the leg length discrepancy, wouldn't it cause issues in your low back? Or your neck & shoulders if you're riding off to the side?

Has anyone tried this approach?

Also, does anyone know how far you can tip the seatpost? 2mm? 5mm?

Finally, does anyone know if there's an issue with using an aluminum seatpost in a carbon frame?

Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer.

-- Melissa

[KnottedYet]

But then I got to thinking -- is it a good idea to address this issue by tilting your saddle laterally towards your short leg's side? While this may address the leg length discrepancy, wouldn't it cause issues in your low back? Or your neck & shoulders if you're riding off to the side?

I wouldn't suggest it to any of my patients. We spend beaucoup insurance $$ correcting the effects of LLD on someone's pelvis and low back.

I'm pretty amazed by this critter. I might have to write a *special* letter to these folks.

[melissam]

Thanks, Knot.

If you want a link to the product in question, here it is:
http://www.amclassic.com/seatposts.html

Maybe it's an OK solution if you only correct slight LLDs with this method? Like a mm or two? I dunno.

At first glance, I really liked the idea of correcting the LLD without having to shim my cleat, especially since I've switched to recessed cleats on my road bike. Without any correct, my low back can get heck-a-sore after a couple of hours in the saddle. And now that my training rides are getting into the 3-5 hour range, well, let's just say that my legs aren't necessarily the sorest part of my body after a ride.

Oh well, my next approach will be to use full foot orthotics in my cycling shoes. In effect I'm going to put the shim inside my cycling shoe and enjoy the convenience of recessed cleats and have a happy back to boot! At least that's my theory...

-- Melissa

[KnottedYet]

Specialized makes some very nice non-compressible forefoot lifts/shims that go inside the shoe. Unless you already have orthotics that you want made into full-foot, I'd be looking at the Specialized goodies.

(If you already have orthotics, your Orthotist will know the lift at your heel and should have no problem just *giving* you a slab of cork the same thickness for your forefoot in the bike shoe.)

[melissam]

Thanks again, Knot!

I have a pair of orthotics on order from the Orthotic Group. Their rep was in the office and we did a scan of my feet/gait while walking -- fascinating stuff! Turns out that my bad leg has a pretty normal pattern but my good leg does some pretty funky gymnastics to compensate for the bad leg.

Anyway, the orthotics should be here by the end of the month, and I'll give 'em a go. If that doesn't help enough, I can always compensate by tilting my saddle to the side with that seatpost. (Just kidding.)

-- Melissa

[Triskeliongirl]

A 1" LLD is huge, and unlikely to be fixable by cleat shimming or orthotics. I only got resolution with a custom crank set with a dropped pedal (mine is 3 cm) from Tom Slocum at High Sierra Cycles. I highly recommend his approach. All other approaches gave me terrible hip and back pain, that tooks months for a PT to fix.

[Bananas]

I wouldn't suggest it to any of my patients. We spend beaucoup insurance $$ correcting the effects of LLD on someone's pelvis and low back.

I'm pretty amazed by this critter. I might have to write a *special* letter to these folks.

Hi, it's a long time ago that this was posted but I have to say that this seatpost is just what I've been looking for. I not only have LLD, almost everything on the left side of my body, including os coxa of the pelvis, is bigger than on the right side. Therefore, I need both pedal shims (or that wonderful crank if I can find it now) and the tilted saddle to put my pelvis in a level position on the center line and give my scoliotic back a rest. What is death to one person can be salvation to another! Thanks for this fabulous thread which has also given me the full-foot lift info! Cheers!

[melissam]

Bananas,

Welcome to TE! I'm glad this thread was helpful for you -- it's been a wealth of information for me.

You're right -- one man's meat can be another man's poison. Hope the seatpost helps with your issues. I'm sure a lot of folks would be very interested to see what you think of it after you buy it; I'm still curious to see how far it would tilt to each side.

-- Melissa

[oldgrl]

Hi-
I have a 1+ inch discrepancy in one leg-plus some scoliosis in my spine. I was using a shorter crank and orthotics on both my mtn and road bikes, but still had quite a lot of discomfort on road rides, plus power transfer is off a bit with the different lengths. I now have a WSD road bike, with no short crank, orthotic in my shoe and my LBS shimmed my shoe (alot), and tilted my saddle a bit. Had to play around a bit with set up-but now it works great-road all last season with no pain for the first time ever.

I'd advise finding a shop that will work with you so you can make small adjustments as needed-if your back or knees hurt, go back in.

good luck-

[melissam]

I know, what took me so long to call Tom Slocum at High Sierra Cycles? Perhaps some of you don't know this, but I am a Professional Procrastinator.

Anyway...I called Tom this morning to see if his setup would help me. First of all, Tom's a really nice guy! I was a little leery of calling someone who helps world-class cyclists, since I'm a recreational cyclist. I shouldn't have been so leery. Secondly, Tom says 'Hi' to Eileen (Triskeliongirl.)

Here's what we plan to do:
1. He'll call me tomorrow and do a more in depth interview with me.
2. I'll have video taken of me riding on the trainer -- from the front, back, and both sides.
3. From the video, he'll analyze my pedaling, take some measurements, and send me an adjustable crankset.
4. I'll ride with the adjustable crankset for about 100 miles and give him feedback. We'll tweak the adjustable crank set as necessary.
5. After I think the adjustable crankset is "dialed in," I'll either send him another video or go to his shop so he can re-analyze.
6. He'll make a custom crankset, and I'll live happily ever after. Or at least I'll be more comfortable when biking long distances.

-- Melissa

[Triskeliongirl]

Hey guys- I am bumping this up to benefit a new member that just sent me a PM on this topic. Also, I want to add that I found some great sandals recently that are really good for holding a large heal lift. They aren't the prettiest thing out there, but they really do the job and are *very comfortable* to walk in, and they aren't super ugly either.

http://www.footsmart.com/Product.asp...-_-product-_-3

I bought one pair in black and one in bone leather. What I like is with the back the lift stays in place, whereas in backless shoes it is constantly moving and I have to keep resecuring it. They are great for work and long walks.

[badgercat]

Hope no one minds the bump... I'm a new forum member with a 9/16" LLD, and it's nice to see such a wealth of info out there, so I thought I'd chime in with my personal experience.

I think 9/16" is probably too much to be correcting just at the heel (gives me terrible posture, but does help with the hip pain), but I do use heel lifts most of the time. The difference is in my femurs--I just grew that way. I also have a mild-moderate S-curve scoliosis, so there might have been some causative effect of one on the other, who knows.

This isn't necessarily cycling related, but the last post about sandals makes me want to put in a good word (I'm not affiliated with the company at all, just a happy customer ) about Chaco. They're a great company (socially and ecologically pretty responsible) that makes quality footwear. Chacos were pretty popular where I went to college (Madison, WI) and I was always so sad that I couldn't wear them because I couldn't envision how they'd work with a lift. Well, Chaco had thought of that already. They work with a cobbler in a neighboring town to their headquarters in Colorado to do custom lifts (between the footbed and sole) in a couple lines of their sandals. Since he works with Chaco, the lifts don't violate your warranty, and you can still send your sandals to Chaco for repairs, resoles, etc. (Basic info in their FAQ's here).

I got a pair of ZX/1's about a year and a half ago, and am SO happy with them. Unfortunately, the lifted shoe is significantly heavier and less flexible than the regular one, but to me, it's a small price to pay for being able to wear sandals again. I had avoided sandals for years because of my LLD, and now it's a rare day to find me not wearing my Chacos--my tan lines are pretty impressive. I took a couple pictures of my sandals (yes, I love them THAT MUCH) and then my camera battery died... if anyone's interested in what they look like lifted, I can upload them after I find my charger.

[melissam]

Badgercat,

Thanks so much about the information about the Chaco's. I think they look mighty cool, and it's great to know that they work people to do heel lifts or orthotics. Did you get a set of Chaco's with lifts from the cobbler in the FAQ? If so, how long did it take between ordering them and receiving them?

Everyone interested in cycling & leg length discrepancies,

I received my "temporary" adjustable crankset from Tom Slocum and had it installed on my Merlin. So far I've only ridden ~60 miles on it, but so far, so good. A couple of comments:

1. The workmanship on the crankset is fantastic! When I mentioned that to Tom, he said that the finished product would be even better!

2. The crankset has the dropped pedal for my right leg, which is my longer leg. The pedal is permanently attached to the crank in a way that the Q-factor is equivalent to the pedal/crank on the uncorrected side.

3. It's hard to explain, but the crankset is adjustable in a way that makes it elliptical. The rings are round, but the middle is adjusted so that it's off center (like its owner. ) Ahem. Anyway, this resulted in the bike shop having to raise the front derailleur a bit to accommodate it.

4. The adjustable crankset is a standard double -- 53/39. Since my Merlin has a 12-27 cassette, this means that I'm not bringing it on my climbing rides. The Trek has been on Mt. Hamilton and Mt. Diablo duty and will be coming up to Crater Lake this weekend. The Trek will most likely be participating in the Waves to Wine ride as well.

I'm starting to think that if I want to get the miles on the Merlin to test out the crank, I'm going to have to change to a mountain cassette/derailleur. What a slippery slope this upgrading business is.

5. Based on the video I sent Tom, he recommended a couple of adjustments to my seat and my right cleat.

I really need to put more miles on the Merlin so I have something to report back to Tom. After that, we can get the adjustments dialed in and he can make the "real" custom crankset.

- Melissa

[KnottedYet]

Hope no one minds the bump... I'm a new forum member with a 9/16" LLD, and it's nice to see such a wealth of info out there, so I thought I'd chime in with my personal experience.

I think 9/16" is probably too much to be correcting just at the heel (gives me terrible posture, but does help with the hip pain), but I do use heel lifts most of the time. The difference is in my femurs--I just grew that way. I also have a mild-moderate S-curve scoliosis, so there might have been some causative effect of one on the other, who knows.

This isn't necessarily cycling related, but the last post about sandals makes me want to put in a good word (I'm not affiliated with the company at all, just a happy customer ) about Chaco. They're a great company (socially and ecologically pretty responsible) that makes quality footwear. Chacos were pretty popular where I went to college (Madison, WI) and I was always so sad that I couldn't wear them because I couldn't envision how they'd work with a lift. Well, Chaco had thought of that already. They work with a cobbler in a neighboring town to their headquarters in Colorado to do custom lifts (between the footbed and sole) in a couple lines of their sandals. Since he works with Chaco, the lifts don't violate your warranty, and you can still send your sandals to Chaco for repairs, resoles, etc. (Basic info in their FAQ's here).

I got a pair of ZX/1's about a year and a half ago, and am SO happy with them. Unfortunately, the lifted shoe is significantly heavier and less flexible than the regular one, but to me, it's a small price to pay for being able to wear sandals again. I had avoided sandals for years because of my LLD, and now it's a rare day to find me not wearing my Chacos--my tan lines are pretty impressive. I took a couple pictures of my sandals (yes, I love them THAT MUCH) and then my camera battery died... if anyone's interested in what they look like lifted, I can upload them after I find my charger.

I got my Chacos lifted by my neighborhood shoe repair guy, cuz having Chaco do it was turning into a huge hassle. He crafted an amazing work of art, tapered and scored and curved, beautifully flexible and rockered.

Chaco makes great sandals. I'm kind of sad that they fired the folks in Paonia and now have everything made in China. Now I treasure my collection of Chacos made in the US. I have some that are over 10 years old and going strong!

There's no reason to assume that now their quality will go down at all, it's just kind of frustrating to see the pictures of Chaco "employees" on the website and in the catalogs, and know those pics are just propaganda now and all that is gone.

ETA: Chaco's repair service is fabulous, they've been great to me! Anything you've done to your Chacos, they can handle it.