HELP...I think I am going nuts....

[rocknrollgirl]

OK, here is the background. I am highly motivated to work on my running this winter. I need to get my 10k time way down. So Nationals are over. I took a week off to rest. During that time I consulted our XC track coach and my BIL who is a big time runner as to the best plan of attack. They both gave me the same answer.

Use October, November and December to work on building my endurance. Two long slow runs a week, on short tempo run. A long slow run is actually humerous to me, because I am already pretty slow to begin with. They threw out some big numbers. I said...ahhh...no. I am going to take my longest runs from last season( which were not that long) and add 5 mins to start. Then add five mins every two weeks. All on the trails.

So I start last week. Tuesday. 50 mins. Slowed down my pace by about 1.5 mins per mile. This is harder than I thought.

Thursday - 20 min tempo run

Saturday 35 min easy run, I was pressed for time.

I also rode twice last week.

So today I go out to do my 50 min easy trail run again and everything hurts. My knees were killing me. It actually hurts me to run slow.

Is this possible? I have run pain free for almost two straight years. Why does this slow running hurt so much

Is it possible that I am changing my stride to slow down?

I think I may be better off doing a 5/1 run walk and running a little faster.

What gives?

Ruth

[KSH]

Well, I know for me... when I was in full on training mode for my HIM.. on some of my long distance runs I would get knee pain.

Although, it was not consistent knee pain. Just sporadic. I had a time period of about 2-3 weeks where on my long runs I had some serious pain in my knees. It woud be tender to the touch even.

Then, it just went away. Poof! It was gone. No more knee pain. It was really weird.


As for your stride being changed, that might cause pain. I would suggest you getting a video camera and recording yourself running fast and then slow. Maybe you can see what you might be doing differently. I know when I had pain when I ran, I would pay attention to my form, make a minor adjustment and it would help.

[VeloVT]

A few thoughts:

1. Does your "new" running schedule represent a big increase from your (running) mileage over the past few months? I find that when I increase after not running much for a while, it's not uncommon to get all sorts of transient pains -- kneecaps, IT band, achilles tendon -- but after two weeks they all go away. Running makes very different demands on your body than biking, because of all the pounding, and not only do your muscles have to get used to this (even if you're already in good shape from another sport), but your tendons and things do too.

2. Maybe you're trying too hard to force yourself into a prescribed pace? Maybe better to leave your watch at home and run at whatever pace feels good (assuming you have some courses you know the approximate distance of)? When I was training for a marathon last spring (no, I didn't run, stumbled and got a nasty case of tendinitis six weeks before the race that took two months to heal), my long runs were a little slower than my bread-and-butter mileage, but maybe 30 seconds per mile slower. I just felt better running faster, and it didn't hurt me. I know there's a strong basis in "the literature" for running base miles very slow, and there's a physiological argument for it. But it's also not totally uncontroversial -- there are folks out there who say "the way to prepare for a fast marathon is to run your long runs at close to race pace." I'm actually not taking either position here, just suggesting that there isn't ONE RIGHT WAY, and maybe you are forcing yourself to run slower than you really need to. Every runner is an experiment of one, maybe it would help just to forget what you "should" be doing and try to see what feels good. (I know when I run with my boyfriend, we often run 1:30 -- 2:00 per mile slower than what I run alone, and it IS more wearing on my body in some ways than running faster. First, you're just on your feet for longer for any given distance, and also, until you get tired at least, the form you use when running faster tends to be more efficient than when you run slower).

3. I am able to increase mileage by more than the recommended 10% per week without injury, as long as I have some base conditioning. The most important thing for me is to make sure I'm running enough mileage during the week to support the long run (i.e., it doesn't work well to run 20 miles per week and have a 12 mile long run). And I normally don't increase distance of the long run by more than two miles per week, and not every single week (though I will increase total weekly mileage by more than that). So I wouldn't necessarily be too freaked by what your coach suggests. But here again you just have to listen to your body.

Good luck!!!


(Sorry this is such a grammatical mess, I can normally manage not to end every other sentence with a preposition ...).

Edit:
Also, do they only have you running three days a week for three months? That seems like an unusual plan, two long slow runs and one tempo run... More usual would be 1 long, slow run, 1-2 tempo runs, and 2-4 short/medium, easy/moderate runs, total 5-6 days of running.

Edit 2: But then again, I don't know anything about training for triathlon and what's normal for that. Are you training to race 10k as part of a tri, or simply as a road race?

[anakiwa]

Here's another couple of thoughts:

Are you wearing the right shoes? Have you changed anything- do they need to be replaced etc?

I wouldn't overthink the pace of the long slow distance run. If your previous runs were at a reasonably easy pace for you- stick with that and do what feels natural. I run a lot on hilly dirt roads and the pace doesn't eqate at all with pavement. For me, while there's a time to pace myself (eg tempo type runs), most of the mileage I do is at whatever speed feels natural (with occassional violent jerks into the woods when the dog picks up a particular scent, but I don't recommend that).

[pinkychique]

I'm wondering if maybe you need to be doing some sort of weight training? Weight training would help to stabilize your legs for your long runs, as you would feel the benefits of strength training towards the end, when your body is fatigued.

This may help: http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/r...th_runners.htm

But make sure you don't lift weights the same day as your long run or tempo runs

Good luck!!

[Wahine]

OK, you asked. IMO...

You should be completely resting right now. No running, biking or swimming for at least one month after a heavy racing season (and yours was very long and intense), even up to 2 months. You need that break to let everything build back up after all the trashing. It's OK to do light activity of another type eg hiking, kayaking....

When you seriously start back running (which should be about 6 months out from your first triathlon) you shuld use the first 3 months to build an endurance base as the people you have talked to suggested. Use the build by 10% per week rule, that's 5 min same as what you figured out.

As for running slowly, running too slowly will change your stride and can cause a whole different set of aches and pains. I do not recommend forcing yourself to run that slowly, but you should be running slowly enough to stay in a recovery heart rate zone, that means you should be able to hold a conversation easliy while you're running. If you're serious about next season, I would get a VO2 max test done at the beginning of your training season and use an HR monitor to make sure you're in your target zone.

Hope that helps. It's probably not what you wanted to hear.

[KSH]

OK, you asked. IMO...

You should be completely resting right now. No running, biking or swimming for at least one month after a heavy racing season (and yours was very long and intense), even up to 2 months. You need that break to let everything build back up after all the trashing. It's OK to do light activity of another type eg hiking, kayaking....

See, I thought only a week's of rest wasn't enough, but I figured I wasn't enough of an expert to say anything.

Hard race season... and only a week "off". Yep, doesn't sound like enough to me.

*Says the girl who has now sat around and done NOTHING for the past 10 days after her HIM.*

[Running Mommy]

Yeah, we all need a down period to recharge the batteries. You will come back faster for it.

Now as for adding speed. When I was really concentrating on speedwork my coach (yeah the cock roach, but he was good for some things) had me doing interval work 2 days a week. I would run easy for the first mile and then a mile hard, then half mile recovery, then pick it up for another mile hard, and so on. I would run anywhere from 6-8 miles at a time doing this. By the 4th or 5th interval I was DYING, but I pushed myself to finish strong. And I must say, I got faster.
LSD is great for endurance I do agree with that, but you need to add speedwork to get faster. Even some track workouts would help.
In a short time of speedwork I went from 11 min miles to 9:30's. Yeah still slow- but a HUGE improvement.
Also, after the LSD's or hard efforts don't forget to thoroughly ice your knees/legs. After my long runs I actually take an ice bath- or dunk myself in the pool during the winter. It helps immensly with the recovery! I can't stress this enough! Once you start icing you will notice the difference when you are time stressed and don't take the time to do it.
Hope these little tips help.
But yeah, you need more than a week! At least TWO!!

[rocknrollgirl]

To answer all of the questions:

Yes I do lift weights, Yes the 10k is for a triathlon.

Now Yoda,
I did not think I needed that much time off because although my season was long, my races were relative short. Not like an IM or HIM so I figured a week was enough.

Judging by the fatigue I am feeling in my legs, it was not. Damn. I have been so careful.

So ladies now what do I do? Should I just stop everything?

I am supposed to do an off road duathlon in 10 days with my friends. I did not really want to do it, but the DH did. He has since bagged it. I felt like I had to see it through, because of the friends. But I do not feel like racing.

The mt bike riding we do on the w/e is also social for me. Should I back off from that for a while too?

Oh crap...she said in tears....

Should I keep lifting weights now? Anything?

HELP!!!!!!

[Running Mommy]

Step off the ledge there....

I would try to give your legs a break as much as possible. No hill work or heavy intervals. But to keep you mentally sane I wouldn't stop everything cold turkey. Go for a ride- but spin.
As for weights, keep some upper body, work your core, and maybe do something that you haven't done in awhile- or ever before. Maybe take a class that's totally different from what you are used to doing. But like I said, make sure it's something that doesn't overly tax your legs.

Really listen to your body and let that dictate what you do. If you feel like a run, go for a short one. Half of what you usually do. Or go for a walk and take in the fall color.

I find that if I leave the gps at home it makes it easier to relax and not push myself.