Dogs Laws and What Can Be Done?!

[Batbike]

My recent experience with a big dog, no leash law, and people with no money but good intentions makes me sad about how ill protected cyclists are when riding on the road. To give quick update: I was riding in a paceline and a big dog darted out across road, attacking our paceline, missing the wheel in front of me but bolting across my front wheel, and I had nowhere to go but down as I hit the dog smack dap in the middle. Sheriffs and Animal Control arrived -- reports filed and dogs caught, but with no leash law and the free first bite law (he didn't bite me), I have no criminal legal action against owners because NO LAW was broken. I am mildly injured, my bike is (I HOPE) only temporarily trashed but needs $$ to repair and the dog owners want to help but appear to have no money and legally they don't have to pay a dime. It is unbelieveable to me that there is NO LAW to protect cyclist riding down state or county maintained roads -- the animal can legally chase and mame without recourse!!

I thought maybe insurance -- but no, insurance doesn't cover bike accidents/wrecks, etc. Maybe a civil suit in small claims court -- an option that may sound good, but if they have no money then they have no money so why go there?!

I am sad ... down right depressed. Anybody have experience in this area via living the dog hits bike or other personal or legal stories to share?

[Eden]

hmmmm - I don't know about outside of the city, but here in Seattle just allowing your dog to run free is against the law....

[mimitabby]

well, Batbike, if you want to sue someone, you have to look the other way and not worry about their finances. If they got fined for the dog if he'd bitten you,
it wouldn't have mattered that they are poor.

can't have it both ways!

and I'll bet those people aren't going to do anything YET to control that dog.

[Batbike]

well, Batbike, if you want to sue someone, you have to look the other way and not worry about their finances. If they got fined for the dog if he'd bitten you,
it wouldn't have mattered that they are poor.

can't have it both ways!

and I'll bet those people aren't going to do anything YET to control that dog.

hmmm ... I have never sued anybody because it is something I wouldn't want someone to do to me. I would hope I am of good moral/legal character that all issues can be resolved without legal recourse. The idea of suing doesn't sit right with me, especially knowing I may cause financial ill-will by doing so. On the otherhand, I feel I was attacked and I have lots of property damage (bike) that costs lots of money.

[Popoki_Nui]

I thought maybe insurance -- but no, insurance doesn't cover bike accidents/wrecks, etc. Maybe a civil suit in small claims court -- an option that may sound good, but if they have no money then they have no money so why go there?!

Why not go there? They must be getting a little money from somewhere (welfare/social security..). Take them to small claims court, and get a garnishee. Even if it isn't much, maybe it'll wake them up a little.

And "free first bite"??

[maillotpois]

do the dog's owners have homeowners or renters insurance? that should cover this. find that out. if necessary, PM me. I am an attorney (granted not in your state) and I do a fair amount of insurance work.

[Batbike]

oh yeah! maybe it is a Virginia thing, but I it is in other places too --

the dog gets a FIRST FREE BITE, meaning once a dog bites someone and it goes on record with Animal Control (it has to be reported!!!), it is now on WARNING that if it bites again, it will be declared a dangerous animal and put in "lock up" for 10 days. After that, I need to read the law to see what happens ... may need to bite one more time to be destroyed -- not sure. However, it gets the first bite free -- warning only!

as for chases/attacks without biting -- if there is no leash law and dog doesn't bite, a dog can chase and chase and down cyclist all day long! a cyclist can report a dog chasing them and if the animal control officer can ID dog and place of residence, they will do a verbal, non-legal warning that dog is a nusiance, but it is only words, and owners may or may worry about it.

[maillotpois]

in CA, the owner is strictly liable (meaning you don't have to prove anything beyond damages) for ANY bite, first bite or not.

[Mr. Bloom]

Batbike,

If the owner's FEEL responsible and WANT to help, there's no reason to pursue legal action. As mentioned before, there's their insurance. But assuming they don't have any, perhaps you can work out a payment plan with them to compensate you for your out of pocket expenses.

I'm not an attorney, but I've employed plenty of them in business. If you work out a payment plan, I'd encourage you to do it in writing since you'd essentially be deffering any legal action in consideration for their agreement.

I'd reserve legal action for uncooperative folks. It seems they feel responsible and I'd capitalize on that.

Maillotpois, would you agree that an amicable resolution beats legal antagonism?

[Geonz]

Another thought is to at least let the people who make those laws know that they're missing something. Why are there leash laws? Because enough people complained.
Of course, other options are all the tactics for making the act of chasing less pleasant.
But ... I know the local culture and you let your dog run.

[Batbike]

Batbike,

If the owner's FEEL responsible and WANT to help, there's no reason to pursue legal action. As mentioned before, there's their insurance. But assuming they don't have any, perhaps you can work out a payment plan with them to compensate you for your out of pocket expenses.

I'm not an attorney, but I've employed plenty of them in business. If you work out a payment plan, I'd encourage you to do it in writing since you'd essentially be deffering any legal action in consideration for their agreement.

I'd reserve legal action for uncooperative folks. It seems they feel responsible and I'd capitalize on that.

Maillotpois, would you agree that an amicable resolution beats legal antagonism?

I agree -- the incident JUST HAPPENED Saturday, so I need to get all the paperwork in order and contact them with the list of expenses before doing ANYTHING else. How they react to the list will give me indication of what steps to take next. If cooperative -- great! If want to help but can't, I will mention the homeowner's insurance; if refusal to do anything, I will contact small claims court in their county and set a date. All this is LOGICAL!

My personal problem is the laws that don't protect cyclists, and the overwhelming feeling of helplessness as cyclists get stuck paying for things that aren't our fault because of the carelessness and ignorance of others hiding behind the poorly written laws! The people with the big dog are NOT bad people, but people who did not think about what a dog can do if runs free and the damage it can cause. Now that the dog has caused damage, they feel bad, but from outward appearances (and comments of police officer) they don't seem to have the financial means to fix the damages and as the current law is written, they maybe able to get away with not paying.

I am JUMPING JUMPING to an outcome -- I need to step-back and get the paperwork complete and see what happens! Done venting.

[7rider]

Batbike,

If the owner's FEEL responsible and WANT to help, there's no reason to pursue legal action. As mentioned before, there's their insurance. But assuming they don't have any, perhaps you can work out a payment plan with them to compensate you for your out of pocket expenses.

I'm not an attorney, but I've employed plenty of them in business. If you work out a payment plan, I'd encourage you to do it in writing since you'd essentially be deffering any legal action in consideration for their agreement.

I'd reserve legal action for uncooperative folks. It seems they feel responsible and I'd capitalize on that.

Maillotpois, would you agree that an amicable resolution beats legal antagonism?

This makes a lot of sense.
Here's to hoping (working?) for a happy outcome on all sides.

[maillotpois]

Maillotpois, would you agree that an amicable resolution beats legal antagonism?

Absolutely. In fact, I am trying to shift the focus of my law practice to conducting private mediations, resolving disputes as opposed to being an advocate.

But she should still follow up on the possibility of insurance.

[Batbike]

Animal Control declared the dog dangerous. They had a vet medically declare the dog dangerous. The dog owners did not fight the finding, agreeing, and signed the dog over to the county. The dog was euthanized under VA Dangerous Dog Statue, code 3.1-796.93:1.

How this affects any financial liability, I don't know. BUT the road is now safe for cyclists, children, and anyone else!

[Kitsune06]

My recent experience with a big dog, no leash law, and people with no money but good intentions makes me sad about how ill protected cyclists are when riding on the road. To give quick update: I was riding in a paceline and a big dog darted out across road, attacking our paceline, missing the wheel in front of me but bolting across my front wheel, and I had nowhere to go but down as I hit the dog smack dap in the middle. Sheriffs and Animal Control arrived -- reports filed and dogs caught, but with no leash law and the free first bite law (he didn't bite me), I have no criminal legal action against owners because NO LAW was broken. I am mildly injured, my bike is (I HOPE) only temporarily trashed but needs $$ to repair and the dog owners want to help but appear to have no money and legally they don't have to pay a dime. It is unbelieveable to me that there is NO LAW to protect cyclist riding down state or county maintained roads -- the animal can legally chase and maim without recourse!!

I am sad ... down right depressed. Anybody have experience in this area via living the dog hits bike or other personal or legal stories to share?

Animal Control declared the dog dangerous. They had a vet medically declare the dog dangerous. The dog owners did not fight the finding, agreeing, and signed the dog over to the county. The dog was euthanized under VA Dangerous Dog Statue, code 3.1-796.93:1.

How this affects any financial liability, I don't know. BUT the road is now safe for cyclists, children, and anyone else!

Wait a ****ing minute. I want to know how the dog was declared 'dangerous' and what exactly constitutes 'dangerous'. Just because those dumb***es didn't have a fence or even a cable-tie for their dog, does not mean that his running out into the road to chase something (which is a dog's nature, like it or not) constitutes a 'dangerous' dog.

And oh, yay! The dog was put down. We're all safe. Gosh, I'm so effing happy for everyone concerned. What a bunch of effing hypocrites. Every time I mourn with a woman posting here about how another one of our fur babies has crossed the rainbow bridge, I feel for them and with them, knowing what it's like to lose a pet... but I can not rejoice with you in this 'justice'.

For what it's worth, I lost a dog, was euthanized 'for the greater good' You want to know why? My sister was a little kid, and invited her friend and her friend's mom and little brother in. "Dude" my mom's elderly and arthritic Samoyed was sound asleep in front of the door. Kim, my sis, steps over the dog. Her friend steps over the dog. The little brother stops and hesitates in front of him, because the little bro is too short to so easily step over him. Mom isn't looking and gives the kid a push. Kid steps on Dude's arthritic back leg. Dude wakes up startled and snaps at the kid. 2 stitches in his face. Dude tucks tail and sits in the corner, quietly, knowing he'd done wrong. Mom says it's ok, knew she'd at least partially been to blame. None of us knew they were coming in, or the dog would have been woken up and moved to another room. You just don't do that to an old, half blind dog. Well, they reported the bite to the police, our home-owner's insurance would've skyrocketed (or so I heard from my mom, I was young and didn't understand all the details) long story short, we had to put Dude down because he was "dangerous" though he'd never bitten anyone before, well into his old age, and wouldn't have then, except out of his fright and pain. I had my head on his side and held him, listening to those slow last breaths.

So no, I just don't feel good about this... and I can't feel good about irresponsible dog owners, either. I send my best wishes to the family who just lost their furbaby, because no one knew him/her the way they knew him/her.