Dogs Laws and What Can Be Done?!

[Batbike]

My recent experience with a big dog, no leash law, and people with no money but good intentions makes me sad about how ill protected cyclists are when riding on the road. To give quick update: I was riding in a paceline and a big dog darted out across road, attacking our paceline, missing the wheel in front of me but bolting across my front wheel, and I had nowhere to go but down as I hit the dog smack dap in the middle. Sheriffs and Animal Control arrived -- reports filed and dogs caught, but with no leash law and the free first bite law (he didn't bite me), I have no criminal legal action against owners because NO LAW was broken. I am mildly injured, my bike is (I HOPE) only temporarily trashed but needs $$ to repair and the dog owners want to help but appear to have no money and legally they don't have to pay a dime. It is unbelieveable to me that there is NO LAW to protect cyclist riding down state or county maintained roads -- the animal can legally chase and mame without recourse!!

I thought maybe insurance -- but no, insurance doesn't cover bike accidents/wrecks, etc. Maybe a civil suit in small claims court -- an option that may sound good, but if they have no money then they have no money so why go there?!

I am sad ... down right depressed. Anybody have experience in this area via living the dog hits bike or other personal or legal stories to share?

[Eden]

hmmmm - I don't know about outside of the city, but here in Seattle just allowing your dog to run free is against the law....

[mimitabby]

well, Batbike, if you want to sue someone, you have to look the other way and not worry about their finances. If they got fined for the dog if he'd bitten you,
it wouldn't have mattered that they are poor.

can't have it both ways!

and I'll bet those people aren't going to do anything YET to control that dog.

[Batbike]

well, Batbike, if you want to sue someone, you have to look the other way and not worry about their finances. If they got fined for the dog if he'd bitten you,
it wouldn't have mattered that they are poor.

can't have it both ways!

and I'll bet those people aren't going to do anything YET to control that dog.

hmmm ... I have never sued anybody because it is something I wouldn't want someone to do to me. I would hope I am of good moral/legal character that all issues can be resolved without legal recourse. The idea of suing doesn't sit right with me, especially knowing I may cause financial ill-will by doing so. On the otherhand, I feel I was attacked and I have lots of property damage (bike) that costs lots of money.

[Popoki_Nui]

I thought maybe insurance -- but no, insurance doesn't cover bike accidents/wrecks, etc. Maybe a civil suit in small claims court -- an option that may sound good, but if they have no money then they have no money so why go there?!

Why not go there? They must be getting a little money from somewhere (welfare/social security..). Take them to small claims court, and get a garnishee. Even if it isn't much, maybe it'll wake them up a little.

And "free first bite"??

[maillotpois]

do the dog's owners have homeowners or renters insurance? that should cover this. find that out. if necessary, PM me. I am an attorney (granted not in your state) and I do a fair amount of insurance work.

[Batbike]

oh yeah! maybe it is a Virginia thing, but I it is in other places too --

the dog gets a FIRST FREE BITE, meaning once a dog bites someone and it goes on record with Animal Control (it has to be reported!!!), it is now on WARNING that if it bites again, it will be declared a dangerous animal and put in "lock up" for 10 days. After that, I need to read the law to see what happens ... may need to bite one more time to be destroyed -- not sure. However, it gets the first bite free -- warning only!

as for chases/attacks without biting -- if there is no leash law and dog doesn't bite, a dog can chase and chase and down cyclist all day long! a cyclist can report a dog chasing them and if the animal control officer can ID dog and place of residence, they will do a verbal, non-legal warning that dog is a nusiance, but it is only words, and owners may or may worry about it.

[maillotpois]

in CA, the owner is strictly liable (meaning you don't have to prove anything beyond damages) for ANY bite, first bite or not.

[Mr. Bloom]

Batbike,

If the owner's FEEL responsible and WANT to help, there's no reason to pursue legal action. As mentioned before, there's their insurance. But assuming they don't have any, perhaps you can work out a payment plan with them to compensate you for your out of pocket expenses.

I'm not an attorney, but I've employed plenty of them in business. If you work out a payment plan, I'd encourage you to do it in writing since you'd essentially be deffering any legal action in consideration for their agreement.

I'd reserve legal action for uncooperative folks. It seems they feel responsible and I'd capitalize on that.

Maillotpois, would you agree that an amicable resolution beats legal antagonism?

[Geonz]

Another thought is to at least let the people who make those laws know that they're missing something. Why are there leash laws? Because enough people complained.
Of course, other options are all the tactics for making the act of chasing less pleasant.
But ... I know the local culture and you let your dog run.

[Batbike]

Batbike,

If the owner's FEEL responsible and WANT to help, there's no reason to pursue legal action. As mentioned before, there's their insurance. But assuming they don't have any, perhaps you can work out a payment plan with them to compensate you for your out of pocket expenses.

I'm not an attorney, but I've employed plenty of them in business. If you work out a payment plan, I'd encourage you to do it in writing since you'd essentially be deffering any legal action in consideration for their agreement.

I'd reserve legal action for uncooperative folks. It seems they feel responsible and I'd capitalize on that.

Maillotpois, would you agree that an amicable resolution beats legal antagonism?

I agree -- the incident JUST HAPPENED Saturday, so I need to get all the paperwork in order and contact them with the list of expenses before doing ANYTHING else. How they react to the list will give me indication of what steps to take next. If cooperative -- great! If want to help but can't, I will mention the homeowner's insurance; if refusal to do anything, I will contact small claims court in their county and set a date. All this is LOGICAL!

My personal problem is the laws that don't protect cyclists, and the overwhelming feeling of helplessness as cyclists get stuck paying for things that aren't our fault because of the carelessness and ignorance of others hiding behind the poorly written laws! The people with the big dog are NOT bad people, but people who did not think about what a dog can do if runs free and the damage it can cause. Now that the dog has caused damage, they feel bad, but from outward appearances (and comments of police officer) they don't seem to have the financial means to fix the damages and as the current law is written, they maybe able to get away with not paying.

I am JUMPING JUMPING to an outcome -- I need to step-back and get the paperwork complete and see what happens! Done venting.

[IFjane]

But ... I know the local culture and you let your dog run.

Bat - Geonz hit the nail on the head right there. It is the "we've always done it this way" attitude and the fact that Madison has always been a rural county. The feeling of the old-timers here is that leash laws are for bigger towns.

I have a neighbor across the road from me - they have way too many animals on their property, including about 5 dogs. None of the dogs are dangerous, though one (a Benji-type) actively used to come into my yard & bark at my heels until I went into the house every day. The other dogs used to bark and bark and bark and no one (except for me) ever told them to be quiet - also, ALL the dogs used to come across the road and use MY YARD as their bathroom. After complaining and complaining to the owners, and after being promised that things would change yet nothing did, I called animal control. She came, talked to the owners and told them the dogs were to stay on their property. I then received a phone call from my neighbor - FURIOUS - he said, "I have to keep my dogs penned-up. This is MADISON COUNTY and I have to keep my dogs penned up!" That is the culture we are dealing with...

[7rider]

Batbike,

If the owner's FEEL responsible and WANT to help, there's no reason to pursue legal action. As mentioned before, there's their insurance. But assuming they don't have any, perhaps you can work out a payment plan with them to compensate you for your out of pocket expenses.

I'm not an attorney, but I've employed plenty of them in business. If you work out a payment plan, I'd encourage you to do it in writing since you'd essentially be deffering any legal action in consideration for their agreement.

I'd reserve legal action for uncooperative folks. It seems they feel responsible and I'd capitalize on that.

Maillotpois, would you agree that an amicable resolution beats legal antagonism?

This makes a lot of sense.
Here's to hoping (working?) for a happy outcome on all sides.

[bmccasland]

Bikebat - this would be an example of why there's a need for leash laws. BUT I know that in the country, that can be moot. Something about the southern mind set. Has it occured to the owners how they'd feel if the dog was injured by being hit by a car? I know of riders who have pepper spray to use on dogs - if their humans won't control the dog at least the dog might learn that chasing cyclists is a bad thing.

[Jolt]

I don't understand people who let their dogs roam like that. Dogs running around the neighborhood can cause accidents (like what happened in this case), get hit by cars, eat things that may make them sick, potentially scare little kids etc. Plus, there's the previously mentioned issue of them going "potty" in other people's yards--yuck! Owners need to be more responsible, and hopefully the people in this case have learned that lesson and won't let this type of scenario happen again.